Desexing Young Pups

[02Dogs]

Unfortunately a large portion of the population just can't be trusted.

Sad but true.

Until the dog population is reduced to levels that cause shelters and rescues to go out of business, I'm pro de-sexing before selling. Also vets will let you know if it isn't safe to de-sex.

My youngest was desexed around 6/7 months. She couldn't get done any younger because her vag-jar-jar was too tucked away, the vet wanted it to come down further before de-sexing to reduce infection when she got older.

[Tapua]

Speaking as a breeder people wait 12-24 months to get a pup from me, they so know I only main register 1 or 2 in a litter. They are drilled about the pro's & cons of neutering young and I make it very clear I prefer they neuter no earlier than 9 months or after a bitches first season and males preferable after 12 months because I have a large breed. I don't know if the growth.bone development issues are as relevant for the smaller breed.

Most of my dogs go to service homes so neutering is guaranteed but my pet owners are tagged on my computer and sent a reminder asking what their plans are when their pup is 9 months old. Really dislike early neutering but at the end of the day I give the owners all the information and hope they have the dogs best interested at heart. So far so good.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Tapua

[shapeshifter]

Does anyone know the rate of purebreds in the pound compared to cross breeds?

If the amount of purebreds is a tiny percentage of cross breeds, the whole reason for desexing early doesn't hold up and breeders should be looking after the welfare of their puppies not putting them in jeopardy of long term health problems which the new owners have to pay for.

Would be interesting to see a case go to court against a breeder for the above situation.

[suziwong66]

I desex my labbies between 18 months to two years old and boy have i had some pressure from vets and vet nurses to get it done early This time round, i had the same discussion with our newest vet. Pup had her final vacc's at 14 weeks and vet said, "i guess the next time we'll see you is at 6 months for desexing?" i said, no you'll see us at around 2 years for that and then explained my reasoning. For the first time ever I didn't get any 'tut-tutting' or scare mongering with disease stats or didactic stance of dog overpopulation etc. It was a sensible discussion based on facts and the pros and cons of leaving it later vs doing it earlier. Vet totally respected my choice and agreed with my justification

[Alibi]

Does anyone know the rate of purebreds in the pound compared to cross breeds?

If the amount of purebreds is a tiny percentage of cross breeds, the whole reason for desexing early doesn't hold up and breeders should be looking after the welfare of their puppies not putting them in jeopardy of long term health problems which the new owners have to pay for.

Would be interesting to see a case go to court against a breeder for the above situation.

But that's the thing the offspring are more than likely going to be a cross, are we are talking about the resulting offspring ending up in pounds? It's usually the oops it was the bitzer down the road the road that got to her suituation.

[denali]

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1418195506[/url]' post='6608989']

Does anyone know the rate of purebreds in the pound compared to cross breeds?

If the amount of purebreds is a tiny percentage of cross breeds, the whole reason for desexing early doesn't hold up and breeders should be looking after the welfare of their puppies not putting them in jeopardy of long term health problems which the new owners have to pay for.

Would be interesting to see a case go to court against a breeder for the above situation.

But that's the thing the offspring are more than likely going to be a cross, are we are talking about the resulting offspring ending up in pounds? It's usually the oops it was the bitzer down the road the road that got to her suituation.

Exactly- even if it wasn't the bitzer down the road- the chance of two breeds accidentally mating is extremely slim.

I do agree with the early de sexing of pets who aren't owned by responsible people- but also not at 8weeks- moreso 6 months. I also have no issue with responsible people keeping dogs intact. I do feel the average Jo isn't going to go to some of the effort us dolers do to ensure our intact dogs are secure and won't cause unwanted pups.

[Florise]

Unfortunately a large portion of the population just can't be trusted.

Sad but true.

Until the dog population is reduced to levels that cause shelters and rescues to go out of business, I'm pro de-sexing before selling. Also vets will let you know if it isn't safe to de-sex.

My youngest was desexed around 6/7 months. She couldn't get done any younger because her vag-jar-jar was too tucked away, the vet wanted it to come down further before de-sexing to reduce infection when she got older.

You should have let her have a season prior to desexing. You may still have issues with her. A season would have allowed her genitalia to develop far more.

[Mystiqview]

Unfortunately a large portion of the population just can't be trusted.

Sad but true.

Until the dog population is reduced to levels that cause shelters and rescues to go out of business, I'm pro de-sexing before selling. Also vets will let you know if it isn't safe to de-sex.

My youngest was desexed around 6/7 months. She couldn't get done any younger because her vag-jar-jar was too tucked away, the vet wanted it to come down further before de-sexing to reduce infection when she got older.

If her "vag jar jar" was an innie from a pup, it would only turn into an outie during her first season. If she had not had her season by the time you spayed her at 6-7 months, it will still be an innie and prone to exactly the same problems before desexing such as increased risk of vaginal infections and uti.

[Mystiqview]

Does anyone know the rate of purebreds in the pound compared to cross breeds?

If the amount of purebreds is a tiny percentage of cross breeds, the whole reason for desexing early doesn't hold up and breeders should be looking after the welfare of their puppies not putting them in jeopardy of long term health problems which the new owners have to pay for.

Would be interesting to see a case go to court against a breeder for the above situation.

The first question is why is the dog in the pound in the first place? Is it because it is an escape artist and the owners are having trouble keeping the dog confined. Is the dog there due to other behavioural issues - snapped at a kid. (Owner may not be forthcoming with that info hoping the dog will not be PTS and they will find it a home). Is the dog there because it is truly dumped because it did not stay cute and fluffy and small or if a cross breed, did not develop to what it was supposed to be?

Rehoming dogs from the pound will depend on their looks, their age and what kind of reeducation or conditions they now require (such as high/solid fences, no children).

My experience from working out of a pound, most were crossbred. We occasionally had pedigree where we could chase microchips, but they were a much smaller group than the cross or "purebred" as the current fad is (even for your oodles). Of the pedigree dogs, majority were escape artists. The remainder were predominantly from a different demographic. Poorer families, ethnic with possible different views (without being racist, older Asian, islander or aboriginal families). Difference could be, a pedigree costs double the price of BYB. So those of lesser economic means, may enjoy the pet, but not be in a financial position to get said pet desexed. If they are in typical QLD housing commission properties, the 3 foot cyclone fencing, quite often decaying may not be suitable to adequately contain the animal.

A lot of socio-economic issues to deal with.

Society as a whole needs a shake up how we look at pets and being responsible for our pets. Australians in a general sense look at having a dog/cat as a given right rather than something we are fully responsible for. Even to facilities offered by the powers that be that allow us to take our dogs here and there.. (As compared to some European countries)

Puppy farms are becoming a smaller percentage of the problem compared to BYB. Puppy farms still need to jump through red tape to operate. Believe me, I certainly do not support them. But what is becoming. A bigger problem to control is the increase in BYB hiding two or there dogs in back yards and breeding each season and also forming their own little breeding rings. Saw it when I was a council ranger. Very hard to control and also vey hard to police. They hide under the radar of officials.. Two dogs here, two dogs there. Unregistered with council, if they cause no nuisance, they do not get reported by neighbours. Advertise on gumtree or similar sites. They are really reportable to no one. Council does not have the resources or finance to keep up or constantly check. We also have certain red taped we have to follow. We can't go barging in waving the proverbial big stick with reason. Proving good reason can be hard.

Just look of gumtree now and you see ads "parents papered" and health tested. Yeah they may be. May be on the limit register, but unless desexed before sale as a pup, no guarantee they will be desexed at 6 months or even 2 years.

Attitudes have changed over the years, where cross bred mongrels are now flashy and have designer names. "Rare is getting used more and more often"

You cannot tackle the dog in pound problem until you tackle the human problem of irresponsibility.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Mystiqview

[moosmum]

Does anyone know the rate of purebreds in the pound compared to cross breeds?

If the amount of purebreds is a tiny percentage of cross breeds, the whole reason for desexing early doesn't hold up and breeders should be looking after the welfare of their puppies not putting them in jeopardy of long term health problems which the new owners have to pay for.

Would be interesting to see a case go to court against a breeder for the above situation.

The first question is why is the dog in the pound in the first place? Is it because it is an escape artist and the owners are having trouble keeping the dog confined. Is the dog there due to other behavioural issues - snapped at a kid. (Owner may not be forthcoming with that info hoping the dog will not be PTS and they will find it a home). Is the dog there because it is truly dumped because it did not stay cute and fluffy and small or if a cross breed, did not develop to what it was supposed to be?

Rehoming dogs from the pound will depend on their looks, their age and what kind of reeducation or conditions they now require (such as high/solid fences, no children).

My experience from working out of a pound, most were crossbred. We occasionally had pedigree where we could chase microchips, but they were a much smaller group than the cross or "purebred" as the current fad is (even for your oodles). Of the pedigree dogs, majority were escape artists. The remainder were predominantly from a different demographic. Poorer families, ethnic with possible different views (without being racist, older Asian, islander or aboriginal families). Difference could be, a pedigree costs double the price of BYB. So those of lesser economic means, may enjoy the pet, but not be in a financial position to get said pet desexed. If they are in typical QLD housing commission properties, the 3 foot cyclone fencing, quite often decaying may not be suitable to adequately contain the animal.

A lot of socio-economic issues to deal with.

Society as a whole needs a shake up how we look at pets and being responsible for our pets. Australians in a general sense look at having a dog/cat as a given right rather than something we are fully responsible for. Even to facilities offered by the powers that be that allow us to take our dogs here and there.. (As compared to some European countries)

Puppy farms are becoming a smaller percentage of the problem compared to BYB. Puppy farms still need to jump through red tape to operate. Believe me, I certainly do not support them. But what is becoming. A bigger problem to control is the increase in BYB hiding two or there dogs in back yards and breeding each season and also forming their own little breeding rings. Saw it when I was a council ranger. Very hard to control and also vey hard to police. They hide under the radar of officials.. Two dogs here, two dogs there. Unregistered with council, if they cause no nuisance, they do not get reported by neighbours. Advertise on gumtree or similar sites. They are really reportable to no one. Council does not have the resources or finance to keep up or constantly check. We also have certain red taped we have to follow. We can't go barging in waving the proverbial big stick with reason. Proving good reason can be hard.

Just look of gumtree now and you see ads "parents papered" and health tested. Yeah they may be. May be on the limit register, but unless desexed before sale as a pup, no guarantee they will be desexed at 6 months or even 2 years.

Attitudes have changed over the years, where cross bred mongrels are now flashy and have designer names. "Rare is getting used more and more often"

You cannot tackle the dog in pound problem until you tackle the human problem of irresponsibility.

True. Its a breeders choice how they deal with that irresponsibility, and buyers choice to go with it or not.

Personaly, I wouldn't buy a pup from a breeder who desexed early. Its not a choice I would make for my own dogs and as an experienced owner, I would want to know my breeder does not think they are selling to some one incapapable of making their own choices for their own dog, responsibly.

I'm not saying its wrong. For some buyers its likely very right. Just not right for me.

Early desexing doesn't tackle irresponsibility. Just means part of the responsibility is removed.

Controlling more aspects of dog breeding or ownership does nothing to tackle irresponsibility. It denies response-ability.

Edited December 13, 2014 by moosmum

[YOLO]

Both Jasper and Chloe are re-homes/ rescues. Both were de-sexed too young and suffered as a result.

There is a lot of misinformation surrounding sterilisation.

Sterilising males has almost zero effect on population.

Many "undesirable" male behaviours are more a matter of training than hormones. If you have a breed that is genetically overly "aggressive" (for want of a better word) then sure, castration will alter his behaviour, but then why not just buy a more docile breed if that's what you want?

Puppy mills breed to demand, and obviously they can breed their own brood bitches. Unfortunately having responsible owners and breeders sterilise their pups will not diminish puppy mill breeding.

Removing a bitches uterus and ovaries obviously removes the risk of complications with those organs. (I had one bright spark breeder tell me that all bitches should be sterilised because it reduced the incidence of Ovarian Cancer by 95%. Doh!) Also there is some evidence that early desexing reduces the risk of mammary cancer. You need to make your own judgement about the prevalence of these diseases in your breed, and whether that outweighs the developmental problems.