Perfume Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 The Chi muzzle is moderately short and slightly pointed. If all you are worried about it head shape, then you are in for a whole world of disappointment I'm seeing a great deal of Chihuahuas with more than a "moderately" short muzzle, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Reading through some of these responses, I can really see why more and more people are going to BYB. Go back and read some of your comments!! I understand in some breeds, you have to be careful about where your pups go. I am damn careful here mine go too. However my puppy buyers aren't subjected to the level of interrogation that some of you feel is a breeders right. These are still people. Some of them may be ignorant, they may not list or answer your questionnaires correctly or know what to put into an email. I know I have received emails from some enquiring about pups that some other breeders would have instantly denied. Some I would not sell a pet rock to, but a good number were just ignorant and worded their email badly. If I had not taken the time and talked to them or found out some more information, they may well have gone to a back yard breeder. A couple have my pups and I could not be happier about the home they are in. There are tyre kickers out there. I am not so naive to know this. But it's better to try to educate and hopefully direct them to a ethical breeder than send them straight to a puppy farm. The pedigree dog world is being destroyed from the inside out by its own members. The back yard people are sitting out there rubbing their hands together while we turn away pertly good puppy homes by a few peoples bad attitudes. What is wrong with talking to your puppy buyers? Are we so elitist that our dogs now poo gold and are extremely rare? Most ethical breeders do give a damn about their pups. Good breeders will screen their puppy buyers, but there are limits and invading a person's privacy by wanting to talk to their vet, is akin of wanting to also talk to their doctor. It's a gross invasion of privacy. What if they are a new puppy buyer or like most of my dogs, only see a vet once a year or two for vaccinations? The vet would not necessarily know how I look after my dogs and whether I am kind or look after them properly. To the OP, I really hope you find a lovely breeder and a lovely new pet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheenyx Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Reading through some of these responses, I can really see why more and more people are going to BYB. Go back and read some of your comments!! I understand in some breeds, you have to be careful about where your pups go. I am damn careful here mine go too. However my puppy buyers aren't subjected to the level of interrogation that some of you feel is a breeders right. These are still people. Some of them may be ignorant, they may not list or answer your questionnaires correctly or know what to put into an email. I know I have received emails from some enquiring about pups that some other breeders would have instantly denied. Some I would not sell a pet rock to, but a good number were just ignorant and worded their email badly. If I had not taken the time and talked to them or found out some more information, they may well have gone to a back yard breeder. A couple have my pups and I could not be happier about the home they are in. There are tyre kickers out there. I am not so naive to know this. But it's better to try to educate and hopefully direct them to a ethical breeder than send them straight to a puppy farm. The pedigree dog world is being destroyed from the inside out by its own members. The back yard people are sitting out there rubbing their hands together while we turn away pertly good puppy homes by a few peoples bad attitudes. What is wrong with talking to your puppy buyers? Are we so elitist that our dogs now poo gold and are extremely rare? Most ethical breeders do give a damn about their pups. Good breeders will screen their puppy buyers, but there are limits and invading a person's privacy by wanting to talk to their vet, is akin of wanting to also talk to their doctor. It's a gross invasion of privacy. What if they are a new puppy buyer or like most of my dogs, only see a vet once a year or two for vaccinations? The vet would not necessarily know how I look after my dogs and whether I am kind or look after them properly. To the OP, I really hope you find a lovely breeder and a lovely new pet. +1 to this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shapeshifter Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Reading through some of these responses, I can really see why more and more people are going to BYB. This was my exact comment last night when I was discussing our options with my BF. I am dead against buying from a BYB or pet shop BUT I might be left with no other choice due to a few things that don't concern us because we are not idiots and are responsible but probably would concern breeders who want the 'perfect' every single part of a persons life and home! Edited December 2, 2014 by shapeshifter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Perfume, I tend to agree that if you want a show quality pup as a pet, you will probably have to wait a very long time for one as there will have to be a show quality pup left over after any orders for therm are filled and many breeders would prefer to see their show quality stock actually being shown so they might ask around to see if their are any show buyers waiting for show quality pups in their friends' waiting lists before they would consider selling that pup as a pet. Be patient, and build a rapport with several breeders so that they consider you as one of their friends. It might take a year or two, but a puppy that meets your specifications will appear eventually. :) If you don't want to wait a year or two, perhaps consider an older dog. Sometimes a perfect looking dog with no temperament faults just doesn't enjoy being shown and therefore the breeder will look to place him or her in a pet home. Other times, a four or five year old, having finished their show and breeding career is placed in a pet home where they will get a lot more attention than if they stayed at the breeders home with seven or eight others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Reading through some of these responses, I can really see why more and more people are going to BYB. Go back and read some of your comments!! I understand in some breeds, you have to be careful about where your pups go. I am damn careful here mine go too. However my puppy buyers aren't subjected to the level of interrogation that some of you feel is a breeders right. These are still people. Some of them may be ignorant, they may not list or answer your questionnaires correctly or know what to put into an email. I know I have received emails from some enquiring about pups that some other breeders would have instantly denied. Some I would not sell a pet rock to, but a good number were just ignorant and worded their email badly. If I had not taken the time and talked to them or found out some more information, they may well have gone to a back yard breeder. A couple have my pups and I could not be happier about the home they are in. There are tyre kickers out there. I am not so naive to know this. But it's better to try to educate and hopefully direct them to a ethical breeder than send them straight to a puppy farm. The pedigree dog world is being destroyed from the inside out by its own members. The back yard people are sitting out there rubbing their hands together while we turn away pertly good puppy homes by a few peoples bad attitudes. What is wrong with talking to your puppy buyers? Are we so elitist that our dogs now poo gold and are extremely rare? Most ethical breeders do give a damn about their pups. Good breeders will screen their puppy buyers, but there are limits and invading a person's privacy by wanting to talk to their vet, is akin of wanting to also talk to their doctor. It's a gross invasion of privacy. What if they are a new puppy buyer or like most of my dogs, only see a vet once a year or two for vaccinations? The vet would not necessarily know how I look after my dogs and whether I am kind or look after them properly. To the OP, I really hope you find a lovely breeder and a lovely new pet. Great post 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Reading through some of these responses, I can really see why more and more people are going to B&B. +1 - this whole post was perfectly worded 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Reading through some of these responses, I can really see why more and more people are going to BYB. This was my exact comment last night when I was discussing our options with my BF. I am dead against buying from a BYB or pet shop BUT I might be left with no other choice due to a few things that don't concern us because we are not idiots and are responsible but probably would concern breeders who want the 'perfect' every single part of a persons life and home! At the end of the day we are all human, we all make mistakes, but that doesn't mean everyone is irresponsible and should not be given a chance. There is a happy medium between the arrogant 100 question breeder and someone who is only interested in the sale of the pup and does not care where it goes or to whom. I am busy like many breeders. However I will also give each enquiry the courtesy and attention it needs. I would rather give them the information they need to sus out a good breeder and recommend good breeders, than to just say, "got nothing" see you later. In my breed, there are plenty of breeders who would happily sell them a puppy with limited questions asked. There are plenty out there breeding for colour and money and will happily charge anything up to $3500 (yes I did type that right) for a pedigree border collie from pet lines on the main register to an unsuspecting puppy buyer not knowing any better. (I have the email forwarded to me from the puppy buyer). Once you start talking to people, you can soon work out whether they are being 100% truthful or not. Edit: typo Edited December 2, 2014 by Mystiqview 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 If buyers don't like the hoops they have to jump through in order to get a pup from a breeder who is super selective and careful about where their pups end up, then so be it, they can walk away. Given the difficulty she's had in finding a puppy, there's obviously no shortage on buyers who are prepared to be interrogated. If the breeder wants a personal photo's, pics of house and copy of drivers licence, good on them. They may well send someone around to inspect the property and ensure all is well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfume Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) If buyers don't like the hoops they have to jump through in order to get a pup from a breeder who is super selective and careful about where their pups end up, then so be it, they can walk away. Given the difficulty she's had in finding a puppy, there's obviously no shortage on buyers who are prepared to be interrogated. If the breeder wants a personal photo's, pics of house and copy of drivers licence, good on them. They may well send someone around to inspect the property and ensure all is well too. It's one thing to try to come across as a concerned breeder but it's quite another to come across as overbearing, pompous and downright arrogant. As others here have said, photos of a house or a person proves absolutely nothing. Con artists will be con artists and if they're determined to obtain a specific pup they will, in all likelihood, jump hoops…..perhaps more so than the genuine person. Con artists have it down pat. Edited December 2, 2014 by Perfume 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 It's one thing to try to come across as a concerned breeder but it's quite another to come across as overbearing, pompous and downright arrogant. As others here have said, photos of a house or a person proves absolutely nothing. Con artists will be con artists and if they're determined to obtain a specific pup they will, in all likelihood, jump hoops…..perhaps more so than the genuine person. Con artists have it down pat. I'm a bit lost as to how you want people do respond? Clearly if you are not happy with the questions asked, don't answer them. However, getting a "set" against someone whose views on what are appropriate questions to ask are different to yours seems somewhat over the top. Are you upset because your assurances haven't been sufficient for this breeder? It certainly sounds like it. You don't have an entitlement to a pup from any breeder. You have to pass their standards as a puppy owner. It has to be a mutually acceptable arrangement between breeder and buyer. Either can say "no". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Reading through some of these responses, I can really see why more and more people are going to BYB. Go back and read some of your comments!! I understand in some breeds, you have to be careful about where your pups go. I am damn careful here mine go too. However my puppy buyers aren't subjected to the level of interrogation that some of you feel is a breeders right. These are still people. Some of them may be ignorant, they may not list or answer your questionnaires correctly or know what to put into an email. I know I have received emails from some enquiring about pups that some other breeders would have instantly denied. Some I would not sell a pet rock to, but a good number were just ignorant and worded their email badly. If I had not taken the time and talked to them or found out some more information, they may well have gone to a back yard breeder. A couple have my pups and I could not be happier about the home they are in. There are tyre kickers out there. I am not so naive to know this. But it's better to try to educate and hopefully direct them to a ethical breeder than send them straight to a puppy farm. The pedigree dog world is being destroyed from the inside out by its own members. The back yard people are sitting out there rubbing their hands together while we turn away pertly good puppy homes by a few peoples bad attitudes. What is wrong with talking to your puppy buyers? Are we so elitist that our dogs now poo gold and are extremely rare? Most ethical breeders do give a damn about their pups. Good breeders will screen their puppy buyers, but there are limits and invading a person's privacy by wanting to talk to their vet, is akin of wanting to also talk to their doctor. It's a gross invasion of privacy. What if they are a new puppy buyer or like most of my dogs, only see a vet once a year or two for vaccinations? The vet would not necessarily know how I look after my dogs and whether I am kind or look after them properly. To the OP, I really hope you find a lovely breeder and a lovely new pet. +1 to this +2. And just because someone looks at breeders with dogs on the ground doesn't make them bad/lazy. There are no "extra points" for waiting for years and years for a pet. If you're after particular lines, that is a different story (eg my next dog will be an agility dog. I will know who I want to get a dog from and will wait and wait and wait. If I was after a pet, the pool of potential breeders would be much bigger). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfume Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Reading through some of these responses, I can really see why more and more people are going to BYB. This was my exact comment last night when I was discussing our options with my BF. I am dead against buying from a BYB or pet shop BUT I might be left with no other choice due to a few things that don't concern us because we are not idiots and are responsible but probably would concern breeders who want the 'perfect' every single part of a persons life and home! At the end of the day we are all human, we all make mistakes, but that doesn't mean everyone is irresponsible and should not be given a chance. There is a happy medium between the arrogant 100 question breeder and someone who is only interested in the sale of the pup and does not care where it goes or to whom. I am busy like many breeders. However I will also give each enquiry the courtesy and attention it needs. I would rather give them the information they need to sus out a good breeder and recommend good breeders, than to just say, "got nothing" see you later. In my breed, there are plenty of breeders who would happily sell them a puppy with limited questions asked. There are plenty out there breeding for colour and money and will happily charge anything up to $3500 (yes I did type that right) for a pedigree border collie from pet lines on the main register to an unsuspecting puppy buyer not knowing any better. (I have the email forwarded to me from the puppy buyer). Once you start talking to people, you can soon work out whether they are being 100% truthful or not. Edit: typo Too right Mystiqview I came across an ad from a breeder guaranteeing her puppies as being from health checked stock, the particular health checks were mentioned in the ad. I rang her and we started talking about the breed. I asked if she had the relevant documentation stipulating those particular health checks. As it turned out, the stud was health checked, the dam wasn't and the pup was a carrier! Suffice to say, the very next day the wording on the ad had been changed and there was no longer a mention of the breeding stock having been health checked for any congenital issues which that particular breed is susceptible to. I was upset and my faith pertaining to this issue has taken a beating. From now on, one of the first questions I'll be asking is if they do have the relevant documentation esp if they charge an exorbitant amount on the premise that the stud and damn have been health checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 If buyers don't like the hoops they have to jump through in order to get a pup from a breeder who is super selective and careful about where their pups end up, then so be it, they can walk away. Given the difficulty she's had in finding a puppy, there's obviously no shortage on buyers who are prepared to be interrogated. If the breeder wants a personal photo's, pics of house and copy of drivers licence, good on them. They may well send someone around to inspect the property and ensure all is well too. It's one thing to try to come across as a concerned breeder but it's quite another to come across as overbearing, pompous and downright arrogant. As others here have said, photos of a house or a person proves absolutely nothing. Con artists will be con artists and if they're determined to obtain a specific pup they will, in all likelihood, jump hoops…..perhaps more so than the genuine person. Con artists have it down pat. I am not sure if you have realised yet. But you are sounding very much the same. That's why I made the quip of wether you want a living dog or a statue. Sorry, but you do come across as holier than the breeder. And that in your reply to me did a lot to confirm my thoughts. That said, Good Luck. I now shall employ the IGNORE button. Not quite in the mood for jackasses either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfume Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 It's one thing to try to come across as a concerned breeder but it's quite another to come across as overbearing, pompous and downright arrogant. As others here have said, photos of a house or a person proves absolutely nothing. Con artists will be con artists and if they're determined to obtain a specific pup they will, in all likelihood, jump hoops…..perhaps more so than the genuine person. Con artists have it down pat. I'm a bit lost as to how you want people do respond? Clearly if you are not happy with the questions asked, don't answer them. However, getting a "set" against someone whose views on what are appropriate questions to ask are different to yours seems somewhat over the top. Are you upset because your assurances haven't been sufficient for this breeder? It certainly sounds like it. You don't have an entitlement to a pup from any breeder. You have to pass their standards as a puppy owner. It has to be a mutually acceptable arrangement between breeder and buyer. Either can say "no". I have spoken to the breeder since then, in fact she rang me and is more than willing to sell me the pup but due to a little issue I am uncertain whether to go ahead. Have you not read my "enough already" response? lol. The latest comment in which I've said that some (some…being the operative word) breeders can come across as overbearing, pompous and arrogant was a general comment not an exclusive one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfume Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 If buyers don't like the hoops they have to jump through in order to get a pup from a breeder who is super selective and careful about where their pups end up, then so be it, they can walk away. Given the difficulty she's had in finding a puppy, there's obviously no shortage on buyers who are prepared to be interrogated. If the breeder wants a personal photo's, pics of house and copy of drivers licence, good on them. They may well send someone around to inspect the property and ensure all is well too. It's one thing to try to come across as a concerned breeder but it's quite another to come across as overbearing, pompous and downright arrogant. As others here have said, photos of a house or a person proves absolutely nothing. Con artists will be con artists and if they're determined to obtain a specific pup they will, in all likelihood, jump hoops…..perhaps more so than the genuine person. Con artists have it down pat. I am not sure if you have realised yet. But you are sounding very much the same. That's why I made the quip of wether you want a living dog or a statue. Sorry, but you do come across as holier than the breeder. And that in your reply to me did a lot to confirm my thoughts. That said, Good Luck. I now shall employ the IGNORE button. Not quite in the mood for jackasses either. No offence intended but today is not my day for Sarcasm. I came here in good faith and have been completely honest and open. The one who has the holier than thou attitude is you since you're of the opinion that I am not entitled to obtain a pup of my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shapeshifter Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 So tired of these threads, not you Perfume, of the breeders who get all up in arms that a puppy breeder dare question them, or not love just one breed, or want a puppy now, or aren't perfect. You know you all started somewhere and none of you are perfect no matter how much you think you all are, the way you come off on DOL is the reason why no one dares mention DOL outside of DOL, a lot of breeders and dog owners hate this forum and you are all proving the exact reason why! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I am not sure if you have realised yet. But you are sounding very much the same. That's why I made the quip of wether you want a living dog or a statue. Sorry, but you do come across as holier than the breeder. And that in your reply to me did a lot to confirm my thoughts. That said, Good Luck. I now shall employ the IGNORE button. Not quite in the mood for jackasses either. No offence intended but today is not my day for Sarcasm. I came here in good faith and have been completely honest and open. The one who has the holier than thou attitude is you since you're of the opinion that I am not entitled to obtain a pup of my choice. You are not 'entitled to obtain' any pup unless the breeder thinks you will be a suitable owner for the pup she bred. What do you think gives you this sense of entitlement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dididog Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Why is it the breeder's responsibility to make sure potential puppy buyers don't go to a BYB? I would think their only responsibility is to the breed, the puppies they bring into the world and the people that buy their pups. If they need reassurance to fulfill those responsibilities then there's probably a reason for it I would think ie. they've been burnt before by an interstate buyer. +2. And just because someone looks at breeders with dogs on the ground doesn't make them bad/lazy. There are no "extra points" for waiting for years and years for a pet. If you're after particular lines, that is a different story (eg my next dog will be an agility dog. I will know who I want to get a dog from and will wait and wait and wait. If I was after a pet, the pool of potential breeders would be much bigger). I don't think most people were trying to say that the OP is necessarily being bad but explaining that the reason they are probably finding it difficult or why they were 'interrogated' is because the breeder hasn't known them long enough to trust them implicitly. And the OP wants specific types/colours so their pool of potential breeders/puppies is smaller and will probably require some waiting. Also nobody knows if this is the way the breeder always operates... it may just be that due to the circumstances (no prior relationship/interstate) they feel the need to cover all their bases. If the OP had been inquiring about future litters I would find what they asked OTT as there's plenty of time to build a relationship and trust. I also find asking to speak to their vet a bit strange. I don't 'have a vet' I have 5 different vets I consider going to for depending on the circumstances. My dog has only ever gone in for vacs and the vets were loccum and a practice I don't even use anymore so it would be a pretty useless exercise on the breeder's behalf. Do we even know what the breeder's response would be if the OP had declined to supply info? I don't think it's fair to condemn a breeder as what's wrong with breeder's of today when they aren't here to explain their reasoning :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Perfume you do realise this is a public forum? Word spreads quickly throughout the dog world be it breeder or rescue, I feel you are now not doing yourself any favours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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