Puppy Barking

[maybel]

Our newest family member, a finnish lapphund, arrived a few weeks ago. Most of the time he is a complete joy, apart from the usual puppy chewing/biting etc which we expected. He is now 12 weeks old.

However, we are having an issue with his barking. When he first arrived we had him inside in an exercise pen with access to a crate. We had the usual crying the first couple of nights and some barking when he was left alone at first. This all seemed to settle down quite quickly and he seemed to be quite happy during the day (he has play time in the morning with the kids, I visit him at lunch time for about an hour for a feed and a play and then the kids are home with him after school - he is also inside with us whenever we are home, including in the evenings). He liked the ex pen and would take himself off to it whenever he was tired.

We have recently started to transition him to being outside and this is where our problems have started. He actually loves being outside and even when we are inside with him he will often scratch at the door to be allowed outside to play. The first couple of nights he whined/barked for about an hour when he was put outside (which we expected) - this has tapered off but and he will now go out and to sleep with just a minor complaint. However, the last couple of mornings he has kicked off at about 4.30am for 1.5+ hours of barking and whining. We have put the ex pen outside (left open) around the kennel - he refuses to sleep in the kennel (or the crate or on any bedding) and seems to prefer hard surfaces - paving/floorboard etc. He won't go into the ex pen outside but has claimed a spot behind some other fencing that we put up to stop him chewing the BBQ - he has learned to move it and to sneak in behind, which is fine.

For the time being we are ignoring the night time barking but I wanted to check whether this is the right thing to do? He also barks quite a bit when he is playing during the day but we can address this with training.

Is this a transitional issue or should we be doing something to try to nip it in the bud? How long do we let it go on before getting professional help? I am going to contact our neighbours to explain the situation as they must hate us right now!

I don't think that crate training him to sleep inside will be an option as he doesn't like any form of bedding and I think it will be too hot for him come summer, even with the aircon on.

Sorry - I have just realised this is quite long! I'd love your views and, in case we need it, can anybody recommend a good in home trainer in Adelaide?

[The Spotted Devil]

Can you give pup access to inside and outside simultaneously? Maybe via the laundry? My Springer feels the heat and she often prefers the cool of the floor to any form of bed.

[Mystiqview]

This kind of barking is transitional yes and it can become a problem if not checked. If you don't like this kind of barking, I would check all forms of it, not just the morning barking. You can put his steel crate outside, if necessary, throw a sheet over it to create a den. Some steel crates have steel trays in them rather than the plastic ones. This may help if he is feeling the heat. You could also put a damp towel in the bottom of the crate for him to lie on. This can also help if he is feeling the heat. I would refrain from using those gel cooling mats at present unsupervised on a puppy in case they get in their mind to chew and destroy.

I personally don't like letting puppies run loose in a yard at night and prefer to retrain them in a crate or kennel run. Saves them chasing things that go bump in the night and cane toads. Teaching a puppy crate training is great for when you are travelling, needing to take him to the vet etc. The crate then becomes their home. As my guys are now all crate trained, I have toe soft crates in the house where they freely let them selves in.

[JulesP]

No you can't just ignore night time barking unless you want to really piss your neighbors off. Can he sleep in the laundry/bathroom/kitchen?

[maybel]

Thanks for all the responses so far. I should clarify that we will of course not ignore nighttime barking on a longer term basis - it's more a matter of what to do over the next few nights. The advice given for getting puppies to settle when they first arrive is to ignore their carry on so they learn it won't get them any attention. We did this when he first arrived and was sleeping inside and it worked in 2 nights. I was just wondering if we should be adopting the same approach to him being outside for a few days - ignoring the carry on when he was first put out worked and I think the early morning barking is attention seeking - he alternates between body slamming the back door and whining/barking - he isn't chasing other animals or playing etc. I will explore the sleeping in the laundry option with a doggy door, although the layout isn't great as it is long and narrow.

[JulesP]

I personally would not have a puppy of that age sleeping outside by itself.

[maybel]

I personally would not have a puppy of that age sleeping outside by itself.

I did hesitate but the breeder said it was fine from 12 weeks and a lot of advice in other posts said to "start as you mean to continue" ie if the dog is intended to sleep outside then start them off our there or yo set yourself up for future problems. Argggh - so much conflicting advice! Thanks for your input - it's given me something to think about.

[Animal House]

He's probably complaining about being kicked out of the house, and wants to be inside with his pack. Let him sleep inside in his crate. Problem solved. :laugh:

[Bjelkier]

He's a young dog away from his pack and now his new family, naturally he's going to be upset and cry. I would never let a young dog sleep outside but I also wouldn't let a breed designed to be with it's family sleep outside overnight at any age either. Especially not one as vocal as a Lappie.

Is there any reason why the puppy can't sleep in the house in a crate or a pen? The heat is a non issue, just don't give the pup a thick bed, my samoyeds do just fine in crates when they need to be in one. A small floor fan is often great for keeping the dog cool in this situation.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Bjelkier

[JulesP]

I had my border collies in the house until a certain age and then they went outside. Didn't have an issue. But I have at least 2 dogs. I don't think I would put a single dog outside at night.

One of the puppies hated being in the house when the others were outside so he went out earlier then normal. I had a bitch that really mothered the puppies too though.

None of this is fair on the neighbors anyway. Yes I would ignore a crying puppy normally but not if it was disturbing other people.

[maybel]

Thanks everybody. He won't go near his crate (or the outside kennel) - we have tried food, toys etc. I don't think he likes enclosed spaces - strange dog! But he loves his ex pen so we may just have to set it up in the laundry as an oversized "crate" - I can take a couple of panels out and shrink it a bit. I may put in a doggy door so he can chose where he sleeps as it gets warmer.

[JulesP]

Here is how I set up my crate/pen for my last puppy.

[Christina]

I personally would not have a puppy of that age sleeping outside by itself.

I did hesitate but the breeder said it was fine from 12 weeks and a lot of advice in other posts said to "start as you mean to continue" ie if the dog is intended to sleep outside then start them off our there or yo set yourself up for future problems. Argggh - so much conflicting advice! Thanks for your input - it's given me something to think about.

This is only a baby that has only been away from its mother & litter mates for a few weeks.

To put it outside is quite unkind & scary for it.

Its also snake season. They are coming out & about, breeding & nasty. Its also going to get very hot soon here in SA. The pup needs to be cool & safe inside like you are.

Cats like enclosed spaces, dogs often don't like being caged, crated or confined in small spaces.

Dogs are intelligent & some rules can be changed without too much hassle.

You can start to teach your dog the quiet command by getting his attention first & then making him understand what you want him to do. This is easier said than done & takes time but for now he will be barking & whining at night from fear & loneliness.

The problem could be solved instantly by letting pup take turns to sleep on your childrens beds at night or on the floor in their rooms. Pup & children will be quiet, happy & sleep well & dog will learn to guard & keep them safe.

When we were children & told to go to bed the dog always came with us.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Christina

[The Spencinator]

If you wanted to contact a trainer I can highly recommend Alexis Davison (Scholars in Collars). She is the best in Adelaide in my opinion and will use methods kind to both you and your pup!

Here is the website: Scholars in Collars (I hope that works!).

But have to say I agree with the others and wouldn't be leaving a puppy that age outside alone.

Edited November 26, 2014 by The Spencinator

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Maybel

theoretically you start as you intend to continue so you don't allow biting, jumping and continuous barking at nothing you deem important.

It is a good idea to introduce your puppy to your neighbours and let them know if they have any problems - come straight to you to sort it out, that you will be willing to hear them out in a friendly way - otherwise people can stew on it or just go straight to the council.

Inside - training your puppy to be quiet - works as you have done. Outside - much more difficult because there is a lot of interesting stuff going on and he's away from his people. He's going to be warm enough but he's going to have lots to bark at...

Like possums, rats, mice, birds, owls, people, trains, buses, cats, did I say cats...

Hopefully not snakes but geckos come out at night.

And my dog barks at shadows - worse when it's a full moon - cos the shadows are more defined - they look like sillouettes of people or cats or critters and plant shadows move...

And barking is self rewarding ie the more a dog barks - the more fun, the more and more the dog barks... whether you give attention or not.

So the only way I could get my dog to sleep outside and be quiet was in a completely covered up soft sided crate - that the mozzies and moths and other critters could not get inside. And I would periodically reward silence with some kibble through the roof opening.

If she started barking when she heard me coming I'd go "oops" and leave (or cover any open bit of the crate and then leave). Like barking is owner repellent. But best to start this training before bed time - ie practice in short sessions during the day.

I much prefer her to be inside with me.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[Simply Grand]

Maybel, I'd recommend setting up a routine for settling down inside too, as others have said there are fewer distractions and things to bark at in a confined inside area than outside. Agree about cool, hard floors, wet towels and possibly a fan being a good option to keep pup cool.

Mrs RB, maybel won't be able to see my OT thread as she doesn't yet have enough posts but also, please don't cross post from OT to General, I deliberately put the thread in one place not the other.

[WeimMe]

Some breeds and individual dogs are more vocal than others. It may not be possible for your puppy to sleep outside without making enemies of your neighbours and having complaints made to the council. I have a dog that cannot go outside at night at all - even to go to the toilet - unless on leash because he barks incessantly at possums, toads, people walking past etc and I have very cranky neighbours. It is easier for me to limit his opportunity to bark than deal with the council - the neighbour made several official complaints and it was very stressful. This way, everyone is happy.

Also, there are some advantages to allowing your pet to sleep indoors that you may want to consider. If your dog becomes seriously ill during the night they are able to alert you and you can take action quickly. On two occasions I have saved the life of one of my dogs because she let me know she was very unwell - once with an internal bleed into her spleen from a cancer, and later in life from an attack of bloat. Both incidents happened suddenly during the early hours of the morning and the difference of a few hours in getting to the emergency vet can sometimes drastically affect the chance of survival.

I am admittedly a bit of a soft touch, but at 12 weeks old and with no other dog for companionship, I can understand why your pup might not be too happy at being separated from you at night. I let my new pups sleep in their crate/on their bed within arms reach of my bed and I have never lost a single nights sleep (maybe lots of getting up for toilet breaks, but no barking/crying at least!). After a short time you can start to move the bed/crate further away a little distance at a time each night so that eventually they are where you want them to sleep on a permanent basis.

[Starkehre]

The "start as you mean to go on with" idea works really well... and this is why you are having problems now. You didn't expect your puppy to sleep outside from day 1. In saying this I am not saying you should have either.

I am not surprised your puppy is carrying on early in the morning. It's the coldest time of the day and he's decided he's been alone too long, is awake and ready for some interaction.

Personally I would not expect a 12 week old puppy to sleep outside, particularly after spending much of the day inside with his family, but it is your choice. Any barking at this time is not acceptable for neighbours, not just long term.

Many dogs will not use a kennel outdoors, they prefer to lay right near the door closest to where their family spends most of their time.

I think if you are going to insist puppy stays locked outside all night, then you are up for some night time training and some neighbours complaining. Keep in mind that every time your puppy is allowed/able to bark outside in the dark in essence you are teaching him to do so and it may become habitual. So aside from his current needs, he may just learn to enjoy the sound of his voice.

It might help to speed up the process if he is banished outside during the day also... once again not something I'd do, but can you see it from his point of view? If you can't make his night time more similar to his day time, try it the other way around.

I might add, when he scratches on the door during the day, do you let him out? That's not something I would be training my dog to do. Dogs are wonderful at learning context etc, but not so much at this early age. When he's an adult he'll understand the difference between scratching on the inside to get out and scratching on the outside to get in, but not now. When he is inside, ensure he is put outside at regular intervals for eliminating and play, on your terms, not his.

Good luck with it

Edited November 26, 2014 by Starkehre

[sheena]

He's probably complaining about being kicked out of the house, and wants to be inside with his pack. Let him sleep inside in his crate. Problem solved. :laugh:

Yes...exactly...he wants to be with his pack..poor little guy Why does he need to sleep outside at all

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Sorry Simply Grand.

I forgot to check the "off topic", actually I forgot the limitation - have removed the link. Another forum I hang out in - that section is called "restricted" and I don't forget with that one.

I just wanted to make a point that neighbours don't always tell you when they've got a problem unless you ask them to.

Sometimes they don't tell you when you ask either but that's really their problem then.