A New Puppy. Advice Please

[BarbedWire]

Hi

I am minding a new puppy (8 weeks old) during the day and I want some advice about what behaviour is acceptable from the resident dogs. My older dog Thumper is hassling the pup, which includes shadowing her wherever she goes and almost knocking her over. I would think this is unacceptable but I don't want to make him jealous by being too harsh. I am telling him to leave her all the time and I am separating them quite a bit, only allowing him to interact with her when I am there. However I don't want him to get jealous. Advice please.

[stellnme]

No advice, but lucky you having a little pup to look after!

[The Spotted Devil]

Adults and pups here are only together under supervision until I know each can hold their own. I decide what is appropriate behaviour from cats, pup and adult dogs - some growling from adults is completely appropriate (as is a hiss, spit and a smack from one of the cats) but bullying is not allowed. Bullying behaviour is that which goes on without any regard for the other animal's response whereas appropriate behaviour varies depending on the pup's response e.g. pup harasses adult who is drinking/has toy etc, adult gives warning growl, pup backs off (or comes up with a smarter strategy!) and adult resumes normal programming - to my mind that is ok and is good learning. Hope that makes sense! Bullying I will interrupt or separate. I do lots of one-on-one work here so no one feels left out!

Edited November 20, 2014 by The Spotted Devil

[BarbedWire]

No advice, but lucky you having a little pup to look after!

Yeah, she's only here during the day. She has just been trying to pull my curtains down and chew my glasses. She's so cute though and so tiny.

[BarbedWire]

Adults and pups here are only together under supervision until I know each can hold their own. I decide what is appropriate behaviour from cats, pup and adult dogs - some growling from adults is completely appropriate (as is a hiss, spit and a smack from one of the cats) but bullying is not allowed. Bullying behaviour is that which goes on without any regard for the other animal's response whereas appropriate behaviour varies depending on the pup's response e.g. pup harasses adult who is drinking/has toy etc, adult gives warning growl, pup backs off (or comes up with a smarter strategy!) and adult resumes normal programming - to my mind that is ok and is good learning. Hope that makes sense! Bullying I will interrupt or separate. I do lots of one-on-one work here so no one feels left out!

Would you consider it to be bullying when the bigger dog walks over the top of her and almost knocks her over. This is what my older dog has been doing and I've been telling him off. The pup is starting to hold her own more now. When he monsters her she barks at him, but then she bites his tail and he gives me the most pained look as if to say 'do I have to put up with that'? I don't know how to tell him it is okay to tell her off when she chews his tail.

[Airedaler]

I have a new pup, now almost 10 weeks old and a resident 12 year old. I do not allow either the pup or the adult to stand over the other. the pup sometimes tries it when the older is lying down. I do think the behaviour you have described is bullying and I would separate the pup and the dog displaying the behaviour.

My adult is very tolerant of the puppy, much more so than I expected but he walks away from the pup if she is harassing him and on the rare occasion that he has been a bit heavy handed with the pup I remove her from the situation. Each must learn to respect the other.

In your case I would separate the dog and the pup for a good part of the time and give plenty of one on one to each at different times and only have the together if you are able to control the behaviour.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Airedaler

[BarbedWire]

I have a new pup, now almost 10 weeks old and a resident 12 year old. I do not allow either the pup or the adult to stand over the other. the pup sometimes tries it when the older is lying down. I do think the behaviour you have described is bullying and I would separate the pup and the dog displaying the behaviour.

My adult is very tolerant of the puppy, much more so than I expected but he walks away from the pup if she is harassing him and on the rare occasion that he has been a bit heavy handed with the pup I remove her from the situation. Each must learn to respect the other.

In your case I would separate the dog and the pup for a good part of the time and give plenty of one on one to each at different times and only have the together if you are able to control the behaviour.

Thankyou. This is very useful. My older dog is also twelve but he is getting quite cranky about lots of things. I will keep them apart. I had thought he would be okay with the pup and I thought I might have problems with my younger girl but she is okay and mostly ignores the pup although she invited it to play chasie with her the first day it was here.

[Dogsfevr]

When this pup goes home for the day will it have the same company ?

If it doesn't then pup still needs to learn alone time so its world doesn't become another massive change & hard to adjust too .

Our oldies spend very little time with our pups as it just isn't fair & teaching right and wrong with an oldie can be way off base .

I would be inclined to just keep pup sep

[BarbedWire]

When this pup goes home for the day will it have the same company ?

If it doesn't then pup still needs to learn alone time so its world doesn't become another massive change & hard to adjust too .

Our oldies spend very little time with our pups as it just isn't fair & teaching right and wrong with an oldie can be way off base .

I would be inclined to just keep pup sep

Thankyou. When the pup goes home it is an only dog. My daughter, its owner, works four days a week so it will have three days each week in its own home. I am separating the pup from my dogs and leaving it outside a bit by itself, although only for about thirty minutes at the moment. It only came from its littermates last Saturday so it has had a lot happening over the last few days. I am crate training and house training it so it is being closely supervised. I expect to be minding it at least until January when it will be four months old. Thankfully my older dog is becoming calmer about the whole situation, so life is settling nicely. I think he understands that he is not allowed to be rough with the pup.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

sarsaparilla

It's ok (probably good) for the puppy to come second in your household... it's also good for the puppy to learn to be polite around big older dogs, and for big older dogs - mostly they allow a puppy licence but you need to make it clear to both what is and isn't ok.

I think I would make sure the puppy had plenty of crate / apart time, and plenty of supervised potty breaks eg when wakes up, when comes out crate for play, before and after play, before and after meals...

And while you're having supervised play time with the puppy (probably not more than 10 minutes per session) I would just gently collar grab which ever critter was not behaving. If I decided to play with puppy for a bit and older dog wanted in - I'd give older dog a job like stay on your mat and eat treats or chew kong loaded with peanut... depending on how much of a food guarder he is.

It's important to reward the dog that is sitting out as much if not more as the one that you're playing with. So if you can toss treats at him for staying on the mat without puppy trying to steal - that would be a good thing.

I would pull the puppy off the big dog if the big dog looked like he was not enjoying it. And same with big dog - protect them from each other as they need. You can't expect puppy to make the best life decisions at this age.

[Mystiqview]

Sarsaparilla

The pup needs to learn appropriate behaviour around older dogs, just like while you are minding the pup, your dog/s need to learn appropriate behaviour around the puppy. What you have described is bullying and I would not accecpt this as appropriate behaviour. In saying this, your dog may not know how to play/interact with a pup as it has not done this maybe since it was a pup. Dogs if not constantly socialised with other dogs/puppies will lose to a point their socialisation skills.

Pups in the wild are still with the pack at this age and will be corrected from the pack behaviours that are not suitable. It really is important that pups learn correct behaviours from the older dogs. My pups here are socialised with my older dogs. They are supervised, and if things get out of hand, I step in. To date after 20 years of breeding, I have not had one aggressive pup, or aggression between pups and my older dogs.

Socialisation also is important while the pup is at the breeder. If the pup has not been well socialised while at the breeder - the pup may not know how to interact with the older dog, because it never has with the exception of it's mother. It may not be as confident as it should be as a result of poor socialisation. If this is the case, then it is REALLY important that it is socialised correctly before the next fear period sets in.

The pup will not be a pup and will not be this small for long, however you don't want it to get a fear of larger or a certain type of dog. This will create a new problem (if it does) for your daughter and possibly you later on when it gets bigger and better able to take care of itself.

Forget for the moment about "your dog getting jealous" - that really is you putting a human emotion on your dog. Correcting your dog for inappropriate behaviour is still acknowledging and paying attention to your dog. Go back to basics when you were training him/her - dog was doing something wrong, you correct it, then reward it for doing a correct behaviour. The same goes for the pup - correct bad behaviour and reward the good behaviour.

Watch the two play and interact. If there is growling - it may be play growling or it may be growling because someone is not happpy. Look at all the cues each dog is displaying. A lot of noise may be play or it may be "leave me alone". Older dogs generally will allow a puppy to get away with a fair bit more than normal. Even if puppy is ontop of your dog now, look at the body language. Just because the older dog is lying down and the puppy is on top of them - it could be this is the safest place for the older dog to be. If the older dog is on its back - generally this is also a submissive position and quite suitable to play with a puppy - with the puppy jumping on the older dog. Whereas if the puppy was juvenile or older - the play will be me standing/upright with a lot more position changes (Eg.one dog lies down while the other is playing with the neck, then they will reverse).

There may be times throughout the day, you need to give both dogs time out and separate them. This is perfectly fine. The pup will spend quite a bit of time sleeping, so this is a good time to spend one on one time with your dog. I would supervise all activity between pup and older dog.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Mystiqview

[Aziah]

Personally I feel 2 homes, 2 sets of rules and 2 owners is probably quite confusing for an 8 week old baby.

[Christina]

I would not let an 8 week old puppy loose with the resident 12 year old dog. If the dog was female that had her own pups in the past she may like it but otherwise I would be holding pup on my lap for interactions & only letting them on the floor for a minute or two & then putting puppy in a large & spacious joined up set of panel pens in view of older dog. Many older dogs get cranky faster & don't have the same tolerance so if things turn to aggression it can occur fast & an 8 week old puppy is soon damaged. Better safe than sorry. I would rather be too careful unless you are aware of & understand body language to an expert degree & even then its not foolproof.

Also don't recommend leaving 8 week old puppy outside alone for 30 minutes unless you are certain it is all 100% puppy proof & snake proof.

With dogs someone always has to be the boss & it has to be sorted out but In a few weeks your puppy will be sturdier, wiser & more used to being away from mum & litter mates so take it slowly.

Your 12 year old dog has had peace for years & suddenly having a pesky pup come in & then being told off is a bit much too.

[BarbedWire]

Thankyou for all the replies. Some of you are obviously very knowledgeable and I appreciate your taking the time to share you experience. I think it is all sorted now as I am more confident. Mainly I wasn't sure if my older dog's behaviour was bullying. I remember once at the dog park (I don't go any more) someone brought a young pup in and my older dog did the same thing and I was most uncomfortable about it, but the dog park numpties told me that the pup had to learn to stand up for itself. I took my boy home.

This pup will be part of my extended family and she will be coming to stay when her family goes on holidays so I don't think two homes will be too confusing for her. I am telling her first family what the rules should be. The alternative would be that she spends the whole day alone as my daughter and OH work and their children are at school or in childcare. I often wonder how young families ever get a dog these days. Doggie people advise that young children should not have puppies which is probably the time when mothers are at home and can supervise a puppy. Once the children are older mother is back a work so then they also can't get a puppy because it will be home alone. I am just the grandmother helping out my family and trying to share with my grandchildren my passion for dogs.

Sorry I am digressing and have gone off topic in my own thread. :D

[VizslaMomma]

Sorry I am digressing and have gone off topic in my own thread. :D

No digressing. Just a lovely and caring Grandmother does the best for her family and dogs.

I hope you have lots of fun BUT we would love photos.

what's Puppy's name?

:D

[BarbedWire]

Sorry I am digressing and have gone off topic in my own thread. :D

No digressing. Just a lovely and caring Grandmother does the best for her family and dogs.

I hope you have lots of fun BUT we would love photos.

what's Puppy's name?

:D

Thanks VM. Puppy is called Agatha. Sorry I don't know how to do photos, but she is seriously cute.

[Mystiqview]

Sarsparilla,

I have had dogs that will want to bully others. They just need to be supervised. That does not matter if it is a pup, a child or even another older dog. On the other side of the coin - how are they to learn too appropriate manners if they are firstly not taught and secondly have them refreshed occassionally?

I would definitely supervise them. If the pup is only newly away from its breeder, it has a lot to take in and adjust too. Thankfully most pups this age are fairly tolerant and easily adaptable. Especially if the breeder has done their bit by correctly socialising the pup and getting it used to various surroundings etc

As for leaving the pup alone/outside etc for extended period of times. Unless you are prepared and able to watch it 100% of the time - no matter where you leave it (inside/outside) it can get into mischief. Go around your place and look for things that can cause harm. Anyone bringing in a puppy will have to do this too. There are just as many hazards inside as their are out. Power cords love to be chewed - not exactly a healthy pastime if the other end is connected to 240v. Detergents, cleaners and other chemicals, cochroach baits etc (both inside and out) can be just as nasty. Poisonous plants inside and out.

I am 100% supportive of crate training, however the pup also cannot be crated for extended period of times. An 8 week old pup will run around for a bit, then sleep.

You can wrap the pup in cotton wool. Does not help the pup adjust and learn. Or you can teach the pup to be a good canine citizen. Two homes and two rules will not be confusing for the pup. Work with your daughter to establish what sort of rules and behavious you both find acceptable and stick to them. These could be nice simple ones of sit before pat, wait before doors, toilet command and wait before food. Even within one family environment - there can exist two sets of rules. The pup will soon learn what it can get away with mum and what dad will allow.

My personal belief - every dog should be taught basic house manners. These are the same as the "please" and "thank you's" you teach children. What you teach after this is individual.

[Ranga]

Sarsaparilla I think it's wonderful that you are prepared to puppy sit for your daughter :)

I never have liked the idea of puppies home alone all day ...

Good on you

[BarbedWire]

Sarsparilla,

I have had dogs that will want to bully others. They just need to be supervised. That does not matter if it is a pup, a child or even another older dog. On the other side of the coin - how are they to learn too appropriate manners if they are firstly not taught and secondly have them refreshed occassionally?

I would definitely supervise them. If the pup is only newly away from its breeder, it has a lot to take in and adjust too. Thankfully most pups this age are fairly tolerant and easily adaptable. Especially if the breeder has done their bit by correctly socialising the pup and getting it used to various surroundings etc

As for leaving the pup alone/outside etc for extended period of times. Unless you are prepared and able to watch it 100% of the time - no matter where you leave it (inside/outside) it can get into mischief. Go around your place and look for things that can cause harm. Anyone bringing in a puppy will have to do this too. There are just as many hazards inside as their are out. Power cords love to be chewed - not exactly a healthy pastime if the other end is connected to 240v. Detergents, cleaners and other chemicals, cochroach baits etc (both inside and out) can be just as nasty. Poisonous plants inside and out.

I am 100% supportive of crate training, however the pup also cannot be crated for extended period of times. An 8 week old pup will run around for a bit, then sleep.

You can wrap the pup in cotton wool. Does not help the pup adjust and learn. Or you can teach the pup to be a good canine citizen. Two homes and two rules will not be confusing for the pup. Work with your daughter to establish what sort of rules and behavious you both find acceptable and stick to them. These could be nice simple ones of sit before pat, wait before doors, toilet command and wait before food. Even within one family environment - there can exist two sets of rules. The pup will soon learn what it can get away with mum and what dad will allow.

My personal belief - every dog should be taught basic house manners. These are the same as the "please" and "thank you's" you teach children. What you teach after this is individual.

Thanks again for your advice. The pup sleeps in her crate of her own accord and before when I had a shower she was in there asleep so I just shut the door so that I knew she would be safe. My old boy was asleep in the crate next to hers. She did not even wake. I am not leaving her outside for very long and I know my backyard is very safe, but eventually when she is full time with her family she will be outside for long periods. I don't want her to become too dependent on me. She does love to be carried everywhere and she likes to fall asleep on my shoulders. She also whimpers and whines a little asking to be picked up. I am not picking her up until she stops and has stopped for ten seconds.

Your last para about the house manners is useful because I had not thought about it. It's still very early days. It's just crate training and house training and travelling in the car atm. I will talk to my daughter about it.

You have been a great help. I am very grateful.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I wouldn't worry too much about dogs (or children) getting confused by different rules in different houses...

dogs, puppies and grand children - learn very easily who has what rules and who they can manipulate and who they must respect and listen to. The way you get what you want is to be as consistent as you possibly can, don't let the little things slide... a simple collar grab (on a dog/puppy) and behaviour interrupt, can prevent a behaviour iceberg developing. And praise and attention when they're doing well, helps too.