Vegetarian Dogs?

[Maddy]

I have to admit, I can't understand vegans/vegetarians owning carnivores as pets if they are unable/unwilling to provide them with a species-appropriate diet. Rabbits make perfectly good pets

The vegos that have posted on this thread do feed their dogs meat. The person is question is NOT a vego. So lets not be slagging off vegos.

Even the Vegans that I know feed their dogs meat.

I didn't make any reference to the vegans/vegetarians who feed their dogs meat so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that I'm "slagging them off". I've bolded the bit so you can re-read it.

The majority of my friends are vegans/vegos and all of them feed their dogs meat.

You said you can't understand vegos not feeding their dogs meat but the person in question is not a vego.

Because the topic was raised?

Most people who feed vegetarian diets to their animals are vegetarian or vegan themselves and are putting their own beliefs on their animals.

I think if a person is a vegetarian or vegan and will not feed a dog meat, then they shouldn't have one. They should have herbivores instead.

I agree that if you aren't willing to do what's best for your dog regardless of your personal beliefs and convictions, get an animal that has the same philosophy as you.

Why single out my comment as an attack on vegos (which it wasn't, but whatever, misread my comments however you please) when several others had already raised the issue?

Edited November 12, 2014 by Maddy

[Yonjuro]

If dogs evolve (devolve) to have teeth like a cow I might consider it :D

:laugh:

[Dame Aussie]

If dogs evolve (devolve) to have teeth like a cow I might consider it :D

This is a good argument for people being vego :laugh: and creepy lol

[DesertDobes]

Do not google "dog with cow teeth", results are scary :laugh:

[VizslaMomma]

There are dogs that can have protein allergies. Perhaps this dog is one of them?

Seems incongruous though that a dog wtih protein allergies would also be obese.

I know of a Vizsla with them. They were wafer thin. Their owner had a constant battle to keep him in condition.

[WeimMe]

I used to see a King Charles Cav on my walks who was a vegetarian. His owner was gifted the dog from her vegetarian daughter when she moved. He looked in good condition - bright eyes, shiny coat, lots of energy - a bit porky actually! The new owner tried to introduce meat and kibble but he would not touch it.

[trifecta]

I must admit I am confounded by the health of the dogs owned by one of our clients..... all three are fed a vegetarian diet save for a marrow bone enjoyed on a Saturday morning. Apparently our local vet commented upon their health & vitality at their last annual check up & asked what they were being fed.... he was shocked to learn that they are principally vegetarian Two of the dogs are in their early teens, the third is only just out of puppyhood but has been supplemented with additional meaty bones.

[karly101]

The ones I've met have developed bladder stones...

Certain dogs can thrive on it (ie my dog is sensitive to proteins so is on hills z/d so would probably do okay on a vegetable protein diet) but I think the majority just survive on it.

[VizslaMomma]

All you're doing is making assumptions.

Could you expand on that, please?

:(

[VizslaMomma]

Gremlins

Edited November 15, 2014 by VizslaMomma

[Diana R]

There were studies done on numerous aspects of dog nutrition that suggest dogs are carnivores, not omnivores. L. David Mech's study of wolves found they actually shook stomach contents out of the stomach before eating the stomach itself- disproving the theory that wild canids ingested substantial amounts of plant matter from herbivore stomachs.

Then there was the study of Australian wild canids that found less than 5% of their intake was plant-based and what was there was likely incidental (probably from eating whole small prey). And finally, the study done on street dogs that found the dogs (who were eating almost exclusively vegetable scraps/waste) were able to survive on a plant-based diet for a couple of years but the cause of death (usually around two years of age) was almost always malnutrition.

Canids can survive for short periods of time on plant-based foods (it's a considerable survival advantage over other predators) but ability to survive short-term on plants doesn't make something an omnivore.

As an aside, deer occasionally eat rabbits, fish or birds. Not because they're omnivores but because sometimes, eating outside of their normal diet serves a short-term purpose. In the case of stags, increasing calcium intake for antler growth.

Anyways..

I have to admit, I can't understand vegans/vegetarians owning carnivores as pets if they are unable/unwilling to provide them with a species-appropriate diet. Rabbits make perfectly good pets

I'm not sure that you can use either of those studies as evidence that dogs are obligate carnivores. The wolf observations were on a different species (or sub-species depending on your POV) which is known to have nutrition-related genetic differences with domestic dogs (primarily amylase gene polymorphisms). The other simply shows that a scrap-based vegetarian diet leads to malnutrition in domestic dogs, in much the same way it does for people, and we are not carnivores simply because we need to attend to our protein intake to remain healthy.

Physiologically, cats are obligate carnivores and dogs are not because cats cannot synthesise proteins which both dogs and people (and other omnivores) can. That said, dogs have a much shorter digestive tract than most other omnivores (even bears) and carnivore dentition (like bears) which means they can do much better on a low fibre, protein-rich diet than us. In short, dogs can survive on a well-designed and balanced vegetarian diet, they just prefer and do better with animal products in there too.

Must admit I find the idea of vegetarian diets for dogs odd (medical reasons aside), but if done 'properly' the dog won't die from it.

[Diana R]

To add to that, I was taught and now tend to teach myself, that the variation between herbivores, omnivores and carnivores is more of a spectrum than distinct categories, with ruminants and obligate carnivores at opposing ends. In that way, dogs are carnivorous omnivores whereas we are herbivorous omnivores.

[Panzer Attack]

I'm a strict vegan and my dogs are both fed a meat-based diet via dog kibble. I can't handle raw meat anymore, the smell makes me gag. When I pet sit one of my clients cooks meat for her dog and mine, and I'm happy to (hold my breath and) feed them the meat. If someone at works gives them meat once again I don't care. My boss is vegetarian and feeds her dog meat-based kibble.

I think any vegan that feeds their cat a vegan diet is an utter moron and those who do it do their dogs are a bit misguided. I've been in so many arguments with vegans about it that I don't bother anymore. My latest rescue bub has really bad skin and isn't doing well on her current food. The only thing she eats with gusto is the Veganpet canned food, which is a bad long term plan, but for now I'm just trying to keep weight on her and get her skin sorted out.

The kibble isn't a great solution as far as I'm concerned as I'm sure the meat is factory farmed and the animals live terrible lives, but I don't exactly have a choice in the matter I chose to bring the dogs into my life and it is my responsibility to care for them properly.

And FWIW many vegans transition and get sucked into the hive mind that dogs can live long happy and healthy lives as vegans. A guy I briefly dated is going through it at the moment. People will call you a bad vegan if you feed your dog meat, it's ridiculous but at the same time if I could stomach raw meat I'd only feed them culled kangaroo and rabbits and stuff that was going to be wasted (chicken frames, lamb bones etc).

[Ranga]

The reason I raised this subject is that my neighbour has a dog with no health issues ... All good. It is a working breed (BC/Cattle cross). For no apparent reason the dog is on a vegetarian diet

This animal has always been 'lazy' and now seems very lethargic. It looks healthy (apart from being overweight) i.e. shiny coat, bright eyes, and is only about six years old.

The owner is not a vegetarian, and so I don't understand the purpose in not feeding the dog meat

Well the dog has a health problem if it is overweight.

Should that vegetarian diet be more carbo than protein, then there are issues there I would say.

Would the neighbour consider a Vet visit for a check up or not bother?

VM I've never discussed the diet with her, but I think I'll raise the question next time I see her. She's a lovely lady and certainly not stupid, and the dog is very sweet. She obviously thinks it's the right thing for the dog

Now, to clear things up ...

The dog in question is fed a cup of kibble per day, so at least there is a meat base (of sorts). I think the lethargy is due to the inactivity and weight gain - a viscous circle My twelve year old toy poodle is more active than this dog and happily walks 3/5 kms a day with me and my other two dogs :)

[JulesP]

So the dog being fed by the non-vego isn't even being fed a vego diet?

Heaps of people would just feed kibble.

[Ranga]

So the dog being fed by the non-vego isn't even being fed a vego diet?

Heaps of people would just feed kibble.

The rest of the diet is veges.

[The Spotted Devil]

Maybe it's been suggested to feed vegetables as a filler so the dog can lose weight. My ESS only has 1.5 cups dry food a day aside from training treats.

[JulesP]

So the dog being fed by the non-vego isn't even being fed a vego diet?

Heaps of people would just feed kibble.

The rest of the diet is veges.

That doesn't make the dog a vego

[Ranga]

So the dog being fed by the non-vego isn't even being fed a vego diet?

Heaps of people would just feed kibble.

The rest of the diet is veges.

That doesn't make the dog a vego

My original post was simply a question as to why some people may choose to feed a dog a vegetarian diet. Not picking at anyone, just interested :)

The owner had originally implied the dog wasn't fed meat - and this is still the case - kibble isn't really meat ...

I hope this clears it up?

[aussielover]

I don't think vegetarianism is as common in australian pets. Most dogs on a vego diet that I know (I can count on one hand) are on it for medical reasons (protein intoleerances).

Nutrition can be a very touchy subject. Personally I think dogs are very adaptable and do amazingly well on a variety of diets. I see lots of dogs fed on a variety of diets- prey model raw diets, BARF, kibble (premium and supermarket) and homemade and I can honestly say I haven't noticed a major difference in the health and appearance of these dogs in general.

I don't think I can say that one type of diet is better than another- although i'm aware that people have very strong opinions on this but realistically it doesn't matter as long as you are comfortable with what you feed and your dog is healthy.