Intermittent Pain In Pup's Shoulder

[dead sheep]

Our rescue pup Kane is about 6 months old now. He was rescued from the street, owners let him roam and he was scavenging for food to survive. He was not getting any food at home. He weighed 10kgs at about 3 months old, he was skin and bone. He doubled his weight with us to 20kgs in six weeks. He is now 27kgs and still growing slowly. He looks to be a Wolfhound x Bull Terrier.

Kane is fed a diet of chicken wings, ox heart and lamb hearts (fat removed), lambs heads, brisket bones, sardines, eggs and Advance large puppy. The kibble makes up a small percentage of this diet, I feed it to ensure he is getting a complete diet. Due to his early life circumstances, it is possible we have overfed him hence grown too quickly however he is not a chubby dog, he is very lean. He is a lanky pup and has always had a funny gait. He looks like his mother could have been a goat. He's a very strange looking dog with with an unco body and he is all legs.

About 4 weeks ago, Kane started having a problem with his right shoulder. At first we thought he had bumped it playing roughly with our other dogs, bumped into a doorway or maybe just slept on it funny. He was having these funny pain episodes where he would suddenly start crying out in pain, shaking, panting, and favour the right leg. The whimpering and shaking would last up to 30 minutes then he would return to normal. This happened three days in a row. We didn't see what set him off, just heard the commotion and went to investigate. The next time it happened, he had just come into bed with me, snuggled down under the covers and going to sleep. He was not moving at all, I didn't bump or move him, he just cried out in pain, got out of the bed and limped away, shaking and crying.

I took him to our vet straight away. By the time we got there, he was over the episode. The vet checked him from the paws up, manipulating the joints to try and get a reaction. Kane reacted strongly when his shoulder was brought forward. On subsequent visits, the vet has not been able to recreate the pain reaction.

At first it was treated as a sports injury from possible rough play. He was given NSAIDs for the week and strict rest. I kept him away from the other dogs when they were running and playing and he did not get taken for any walks. I had him sleeping in the spare room with me so he couldn't romp around with the others in the night.

Despite the meds and rest, he continued to have these episodes once a day, every day for the week. I have not been able to find a patten with time, activity etc. He will be laying down, doing nothing then suddenly go into the crying, shaking, panting, walking around limping. He holds the leg out from his body to the side, not forward or under. It never lasts more than 30 minutes.

Back to the vet, we had xrays taken of the shoulder and elbow for suspected OCD (osteochondritis dissecans). The xray was sent to a specialist for another opinion and both vets believe the humeral head and surrounds look perfectly fine. There were some unclear lines at the elbow but the specialist said this is to be expected in a young, growing large breed dog.

Our vet also suggested nerve entrapment but we cannot tell without laparoscopic exploration. Kane was then put on 20mg of Macrolone for seven days, then two days off with strict rest. The following week saw less episodes but it was still occurring sporadically. We have never seen it happen more than once a day. The longest we have gone without an episode (or perhaps we missed it) was six days.

We were back at the vet again when the medication ran out. The vet manipulated the shoulder again but was not able to get any negative response. He suggested we try upping the medication slightly as it appears the episodes are dropping away slowly. Kane is now having 30mg Macrolone. It has been 6 days on the higher dose and he is still having these pain episodes. Today he had one at Kepala. He was laying on the ground in the shade resting, suddenly jumped up crying and whining, limping on the leg then settled back down.

Probably totally unrelated, a few weeks before this started, he was rushed by a large dog at the park and knocked over and pinned. He cried and limped (back right leg) and we got him to the vet. He was quite aggressive when touched on either of the back legs although he was only favouring the right. Xrays showed no problems. The next day he was 100% recovered.

Has anyone encountered anything like this? Sporadic pain without an obvious trigger? Something a DOLer suggested to me was Panosteitis. I'll be taking any suggestions to my vet in one weeks time. We don't want to have to open him up if we don't have to but we really want to get to the bottom of it. It's breaking my heart seeing the little guy crying and shaking in pain even though it is fairly short lived. We want to get this fixed now before it becomes worse.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We are open to any sort of treatments, just want to know why it is happening first. Our vet does do acupuncture.

Kane is the smaller dog sitting on the new grass (which they have since destroyed)

Edited November 9, 2014 by dead sheep

[2boxer]

My boy had panosteitis when he was young. His pain episodes could start without and trigger and he did grow out of it. He had X-rays done and diagnosis was made by a specialist.

[dead sheep]

My boy had panosteitis when he was young. His pain episodes could start without and trigger and he did grow out of it. He had X-rays done and diagnosis was made by a specialist.

Hi boxer, does my boy's episodes sound like your boy with the crying and shaking? How did they make the diagnosis? Just rule out other possibilities? I suspect our next vet visit will result in a specialist referral. I do hope it is Pano rather than anything more serious. Thank you.

[tdierikx]

Has he just had a growth spurt by any chance?

I had a Rotti that went through something similar at around the same age... turned out to be that his tendons and ligaments weren't keeping up with his bone growth and were stretched after a growth spurt. We treated with anti-inflammatories and complete rest while his tendons adjusted to the bone growth. No running or playing for a few weeks, and he came good once his growth spurts slowed down.

T.

[CavsRcute]

My girl had similar episodes starting from when she was about 4 months old.

It was finally discovered after thousands of dollars and lot and lots of tests, that she actually had hip dysplasia.

The pain and limping was showing up in her left shoulder, and this was because her right hip was the really bad one.

Because she had a compromised gait she also developed really bad trigger points that spasmed and that was when she was in pain.

They used to wake her up from a deep sleep and she would run around distressed.getting up from the ground also caused her to limp but she managed to run that out. But it was the spasming that caused her grief.

She was also tested for OCD ? Osteodissecan? And polyarthropy? But nothing showed up

She showed no problems when the joint was manipulated

We managed it by acupuncture and had a wonderful vet who did trigger point therapy.

We found that anti inflammatories had no effect as it essentially a muscular problem.

It's very frustrating. Good luck

Just reread your post. I' m just wondering whether when he was rushed by the dog it might have caused a soft tissue injury which has now tightened up and is spasming.

Edited November 9, 2014 by CavsRcute

[Nekhbet]

Too much protein in his diet - that small proportion of kibble isn't balancing anything. He also doesn't need any more NSAIDs before he DOES to damage to the joint. Let him hurt it will make him stop using it and acting like a loon.

I would get a chiro to have a good look - you've done the x-ray and he's fine so assume between putting himself out skeletally and pano with a high protein diet and what breeds he possibly is.

You need to balance that diet a little. Get yourself a GOOD multivitamin something like the VAN Health Booster or Sprinter Gold whelp and grow, add it to his meals and add some fiber. Chuck the Advanced. If you want to go whole hog at least during this stage get something like the VAN mix or cook up some vegetables for him to decrease the pure protein portion of his meals it's way too high. Remember with 'raw' diets that mimic the 'wild' diet a lot of what a dog eats is not that good or digestible. They dont eat brisket, legs, etc every day. It's too much.

[dead sheep]

Has he just had a growth spurt by any chance?

T.

He is constantly growing and I have noticed over the last few weeks he seems to have grown quite a lot in length. We have to adjust his harness every two weeks to accommodate the growth. It is hard to see really when we are looking at him every day but people do comment how much he is growing. Hoping this is just growing pains.

We managed it by acupuncture and had a wonderful vet who did trigger point therapy.

We found that anti inflammatories had no effect as it essentially a muscular problem.

Just reread your post. I' m just wondering whether when he was rushed by the dog it might have caused a soft tissue injury which has now tightened up and is spasming.

I'll bring this up with my vet next appointment. Maybe we will xray those hips to be sure. Our vet does acupuncture so we'll discuss everything next time. Thank you so much for sharing.

Too much protein in his diet - that small proportion of kibble isn't balancing anything. He also doesn't need any more NSAIDs before he DOES to damage to the joint. Let him hurt it will make him stop using it and acting like a loon.

I would get a chiro to have a good look - you've done the x-ray and he's fine so assume between putting himself out skeletally and pano with a high protein diet and what breeds he possibly is.

You need to balance that diet a little. Get yourself a GOOD multivitamin something like the VAN Health Booster or Sprinter Gold whelp and grow, add it to his meals and add some fiber. Chuck the Advanced. If you want to go whole hog at least during this stage get something like the VAN mix or cook up some vegetables for him to decrease the pure protein portion of his meals it's way too high. Remember with 'raw' diets that mimic the 'wild' diet a lot of what a dog eats is not that good or digestible. They dont eat brisket, legs, etc every day. It's too much.

Thanks Nehk. I'll get onto the VAN Booster straight away. He was only on NSAIDs for the first week and we all agreed they were doing him no good but possibly just masking his pain. Veggies sound like a good idea. I'll ditch the Advance, was just trying to add a bit more for balance. I'll re-do my learning Thank you!

I just want to clarify, our two other large/giant dogs were raised on this same diet and they have had no health or growth dramas whatsoever. They only get the brisket and lamb head once a week to chew on.

[OSoSwift]

I would think Panosteitis or possibly OCD of the shoulder??

[tdierikx]

I'd be looking to grow him slowly if possible...he's looking good now, so you can stop trying to build him up any more, and just maintain a healthy growth rate for a giant breed pup.

T.

[dead sheep]

Thanks for all your advice guys. He hasn't had an episode in nearly 2 weeks now so we will continue with the lower protein diet and try to reduce his growth rate.

[brightstar123]

Panosteitis should be diagnosable by the x-rays your vet took, depending on whether they included the radius and ulna in the frame (these are the bones most commonly affected). Usually there is pain on palpation of the long bones, rather than flexion of the joints, although sometimes it's not very clear. I agree with your vets in that it sounds like a soft tissue problem - nerves, tendons etc - as pretty much anything else should have shown up on the rads.

As well as protein content, be careful with the calcium to phosphorus ratio in his diet since he's a young big fellow. Sounds like you have got it right before but it can be a challenge sometimes when they are growing very quickly. Hope he continues to improve :)

[Rebanne]

Thanks for all your advice guys. He hasn't had an episode in nearly 2 weeks now so we will continue with the lower protein diet and try to reduce his growth rate.