Bark Bark Bark Bark Bark Bark Bark

[huski]

If you do IPO/Schutzhund then dogs need to be trained to bark for the bark and hold exercise.

However we don't train dogs to bark in personal protection work.

[JRG]

"Watched the Crufts agility finals. Thanks so much to everyone who replied, seems barking is accepted as I noted dogs in the Crufts youtubes barking and achieving remarkable focus. JRG, including a field bred a spaniel in the final"

I saw that too - probably why it was in agility not the field!! :laugh: (just teasing)

Edited December 10, 2014 by JRG

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Lab lover

My dog would bark on course if I let her. Ok so that would be trials because I need the practice more than she does...

She mostly barks if I've not made it clear to her where we're going next which is mostly because I've gotten lost.

It doesn't matter how many times I walk or run the course beforehand - it looks different when I have to pay attention to my dog as well. And my dog always does something different to what I imagined.

Barking for her - expresses excitement and frustration and it's also something she uses to train me to hand over treats / attention (oops - I've been rewarding it). It is also a sign of lack of impulse control - the same sort of thing as breaking the start line stay (leaving without permission).

Ie you can train the dog not to do it if you want to. The key is to work out what is triggering it, and to not reward the barking by ignoring it or continuing... like the dog that fence barks because it thinks it is scaring away people walking by - except people walking by would mostly walk by anyway.

So how do I untrain it? Or how do I train more impulse control?

I get lost (deliberatly or accidentally) at training. A lot. I will start her off, run, point her at some jumps and then stop and act lost... or ask for a change of direction - late... if she barks - I can collar grab her and act boring until she calms down. If I'm sharing equipment at club - it's polite to get off and let someone else have a turn.

So I trigger it then I add some "response cost" so she learns we're not going to have any fun, she's not going to earn any rewards when she's barking. At agility training - reward is mostly chasing me around, with food as a bonus.

We also practice barking self control at the front door - which has been translating everywhere else we go. Ie she was blasting out the front door barking her head off, and I was letting her - she was on lead - and we were going out and I didn't see the problem (initially).

But she was losing her impulse control in the face of exciting things - like the neighbours kids kicking a footy out the front, or strangers walking home from the bus stop past our house, or just people walking dogs past our house.

Ie there's lots of triggers for barking excited - but the more triggers she can show self control - the more generalised it will be to new triggers or less common triggers like running agility courses.

She's always been chatty at dinner time - so I put barking on cue - and then I can "yes" the prebark (quiet rrr) and reward that. Ie quiet barking, and have a second cue for "louder". So that helps get her to be able to control when she barks and puts value on it so she's less likely to give it away for free. Only reward barking if you have cue'd it.

Susan Garrett had an on-course barky dog - buzzy and she chose not to train it out because she thought it would make him slower but she was much more careful with Swagger - not to reward any barking at all ie the game ended if there was any barking. Her exception is she lets all the dogs bark their heads off when visitors come.

Agility - there is no judge's penalty for barking. It might make the dog a bit less responsive - I don't think they can hear all that well while they're in the middle of a bark. Swagger is faster than Buzzy was.

[Kavik]

I don't think you can compare Buzz and Swagger so simply though MRB - they are different dogs! Different dogs, with different temperaments, and SG's skills have improved immensely since (and certainly thanks to ) Buzz, so they have had different training. It was very enlightening to watch the H360 promos where she showed her early handling (90s) compared to today.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Kavik

My point was with one dog (Buzzy) Susan Garrett chose to allow the barking and with the more recent dog (Swagger) she chose not to. Her original reason for allowing - was - she thought training Buzzy to be quiet would make him slower (probably based on what she saw happen to other people who trained the barking out of their dogs). And with Swagger - she chose to do differently - because she could - her ability to train what she wanted and maintain speed - is so much better.

And with her new systems for giving the dogs clear ideas of where they need to go - ahead of time - leads to much better performance and less frustration (and maybe less barking).

With my dog - barking on course - leads to biting on course - which hurts... so I don't want to give her the idea that it's ok with me.

[Nekhbet]

However we don't train dogs to bark in personal protection work.

PP dogs still should give a warning to an approaching target if commanded by their handler. Barking has always been part of PP training.

[Lablover]

A video I took, after arriving at a favourite training site.

She was fresh out of her crate, and placed on a sit stay. I was keen to take some photos,there was a delay while organising my video device, frustration was building, so instead of photos took this video. At her worst! Why I bothered to command quiet...no idea.

[Kavik]

At least she stayed sitting - Nitro tends to stand up when he barks :laugh:

[The Spotted Devil]

At least you realise there was no point saying "quiet!" LL :laugh:

You should have seen Zig's face when I played that video lol

Personally, if I wanted to fix it I would work on crate games first...building impulse control etc. One bark and I would cover with a sheet. There has to be a consequence. Em barked in a sit stay once when I was walking out for a T- drill - just excited to be out training. I turned around, quietly put her leash on and popped her back in the car. She nearly swallowed her tongue as well as her bark next time Still working on quiet when I'm training another dog....improving but not there yet!

[OSoSwift]

Gawd I couldn't cope with that at all!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Lablover

I love how she held her stay... and barked.

It's a lot easier to "explain" stay to a dog than quiet I guess.

But that's where teaching bark on cue can help. And once that's learned only reward the bark if you cued it. So if that was my dog - I'd wait for her to take a breath and then tell her to "Speak" and reward that. And play that game for a couple of treats/rewards - saying "yes" for the quieter pre-bark and rewarding. And then wait... if she barked again - she'd get turned in a small circle and "reset" but no treat. Cos I didn't cue it.

I'd also try the crate games thing. It might take a few sessions for your dog to understand that barking means not being able to see out and no attention.

I used to treat barking like owner repellent... if she did a little bark to check whether I'd forgotten her - then I'd say "in a minute" or "later" ie I'd acknowledge so she'd know I hadn't forgotten her but I wasn't getting her out yet either.

But if she barked like in the video - I'd march over without making eye contact and cover her up... and I'd wait to see if she stopped, then I'd uncover a bit... then I'd leave to finish what I was doing - if she barked as I started to approach - I'd turn and go the other way.

She was pretty good at being quiet when she couldn't see me (she'd figured that was pointless), but she used to bark a lot when she could see me. So I used to play approach while quiet - one bark = turn and start walking away (out of sight if necessary).

I'd also play a variation of the game standing next to the crate.

This morning she had a bit of a barking fit because I went to the neighbours place (for apricots / house check), without her. But I just ignored it. I didn't go back until she was quiet.

She does your dog's bark with a much higher pitched note in it. Nasty. But not quite as bad as a beagle howl.

[Vickie]

Have pm'd you Julie