Breeder Won't Supply Limited Register Papers.

[WeeRedDogs]

Hi Everyone,

I was just hoping for some advice around dealing with a breeder who hasn't supplied papers. I purchased a puppy from a registered breeder in February 2014. I found the breeder through Dogz Online and their online presence (website and contacts with other kennels) seemed legit. When the puppy arrived there were no pedigree or Limited Register papers accompanying her. I emailed the breeder about this and was told that they were waiting on DNA results as the dam had been mated with 2 sires. The puppies would be registered once the sire had been confirmed. We found out through the grapevine that the DNA results came back in late April, however I did not receive any paperwork.

My girl is now 10 months old and I still haven't received any register papers. I have followed this up several times over the last 8 months with no result.

All the breeders I have dealt with previously have handed the papers over with the puppy, I've never had any issue getting the paperwork before. Is it common to have to wait so long for the papers to be supplied?

My girl is not for showing or breeding, so ultimately the papers are just for my records and personal interest, however it is important to me to know that my dogs come from registered, responsible breeders. I don't want my money going to someone who is not acting in their, or my, dog's best interests. Given the hassle with the papers, it does worry me what other information might be being withheld.

Is there another way of accessing limited register papers other than through the breeder?

Thanks.

[Kavik]

What has the breeder said when you talked to them about it?

It has taken a while to get my youngest dog's papers, but they are WKC papers not ANKC, and it seems some things just move more slowly in the country :laugh:

[WeeRedDogs]

First we had to wait for DNA results. Then some of the puppies had to be retested before they could be registered. Then the papers 'were posted a few weeks ago' and they would look into it (I never heard back). Now they are not responding to emails at all.

[Jemmy]

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I could confirm if this is right - but isn't there a way to check with your state's registering body if a certain breeder or prefix has registered a litter? If so that might help you get on the right track of knowing if they have been registered at all...

[LisaCC]

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I could confirm if this is right - but isn't there a way to check with your state's registering body if a certain breeder or prefix has registered a litter? If so that might help you get on the right track of knowing if they have been registered at all...

Yes, contact the state registering body that your breeder is under, DogsNSW, DogsVic etc.

I can't remember who it was but there was another member on here that was having the same issue with their pups papers and calling DogSA got it sorted out.

Edited November 2, 2014 by LisaCC

[dancinbcs]

First we had to wait for DNA results. Then some of the puppies had to be retested before they could be registered. Then the papers 'were posted a few weeks ago' and they would look into it (I never heard back). Now they are not responding to emails at all.

Dogs NSW breeders must supply papers when they sell a puppy. If your puppy is from NSW, contact Dogs NSW with the details and and copies of emails, etc and get them to follow it up.

[WreckitWhippet]

First we had to wait for DNA results. Then some of the puppies had to be retested before they could be registered. Then the papers 'were posted a few weeks ago' and they would look into it (I never heard back). Now they are not responding to emails at all.

Dogs NSW breeders must supply papers when they sell a puppy. If your puppy is from NSW, contact Dogs NSW with the details and and copies of emails, etc and get them to follow it up.

Since when as we have 6 months to register a litter

[Dame Aussie]

No reason it should take that long IMO. My puppy didn't come with her papers but we had them no more than a few weeks later.

I'd call dogs NSW. Good luck :)

[Steve]

First we had to wait for DNA results. Then some of the puppies had to be retested before they could be registered. Then the papers 'were posted a few weeks ago' and they would look into it (I never heard back). Now they are not responding to emails at all.

Dogs NSW breeders must supply papers when they sell a puppy. If your puppy is from NSW, contact Dogs NSW with the details and and copies of emails, etc and get them to follow it up.

Im a Dogs NSW member and based on the fact that I chip at 7 weeks and the pups go home at 8-9 weeks its impossible for me to have the papers in my hand and be able to hand them over with the pup.

Last litter I registered them on the day they were chipped - I had them back about a week after the pups went home but there were two errors which I had to have corrected - if they are waiting for DNA it would be longer - but you only have 6 months from dob to register them.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Steve

[Steve]

Dogs NSW Code and regulations

A member shall ensure that within 28 days of the date of sale or transfer of a dog to another person that documents, as required by the Dogs NSW Regulations Part 1, are provided to

the new owner of the dog.

22. Upon the sale or transfer of a dog a Member shall supply the new owner with a current

vaccination certificate signed by a Veterinary Surgeon evidencing that the dog has been

immunised against Canine Distemper, Hepatitis, and Parvo Virus along with microchip

documentation

Regulations Part 1

Except where hereafter provided, an application for the registration of a dog must

be made no later than the day on which the dog attains the age of 6 months, except

under extenuating circumstances where application for registration of the dog may

be considered by the Board of Directors. (11/08), (06/13)

Also many breeders hold registration papers [some provide only a copy] until a contract has been honoured such as desexing etc

Edited November 6, 2014 by Steve

[MelissaS]

My pup had a dual sire and was DNA tested to determine the father.

He is also limited register. I am in NSW and my breeder is in QLD. I got the DNA test results within 2 weeks of him being with me-pup was just over 10 weeks old. I received his limited register papers when he was around 12 weeks old. They were in contact to let me know when I would receive both and emailed me copies of DNA tests prior to arriving in mail.

Try to contact them as it seems a long time.

Good luck :)

[WeeRedDogs]

Thanks everyone, I will contact Dogs NSW and see if I can get her papers that way.

[Riley James]

We had to wait until out boy was close to 9 months old to get his main register papers.

Which made life difficult as we wanted to show him and by the time he got in the ring he was just not interested (crawled around the ring on his belly oops)

She knew he was to be shown

The breeder was just slack.

No other reason.

And when the papers did arrive she hadn't signed them.

So here we are 6 years later with him still in her name.

Almost a month ago I sent them back to her to sign and followed up,with text message lst week.

She said "oh yeah it's on my desk I should send them back "

So sometimes people are just slack or unorganised.

So please do yourself a favour a ring your breeder until you get an answer.

[Dogsfevr]

DNA can be done very early ,well before the pups are ready to go BUT most breeders won't chip until 7/8 weeks & thus the DNA can't be done until there chipped ,BUt any set backs should be told to you ,it really isn't that hard to say this is the process & the age we do things so papers may take *** time .

[Mystiqview]

Showdog, I don't know where you get "most breeders don't chip until 7-8 weeks. I and many border collie breeder friends chip puppies at 6 weeks during vaccination time. Legally in Qld (may differ in other states), the puppy (or kitten) only needs to be over one kilogram in weight to be chipped. I can understand toy dogs being chipped later than 6 weeks.

As for papers and even with DNA, I would expect them in normal situations by the time the pup is 12 weeks old. Queensland allows breeders to register pups directly into the new owner's name whereas other states register in the breeders name and then the dog needs to be transferred to the new owner. Average turn around time for Dogs Queensland is about 10 business days. The papers are sent back to the breeder for checking, then the breeder is expected to mail out the new certificates to the new owners.

Breeders in Queensland HAVE been fined and/or suspended for NOT supplying papers. I know of a few, and have even had to write/witness stat declarations for one breeder who is still suspended (indefiniely).

If for limited register - there is no reason why the papers need to be held for contract reasons (Eg. desexing). I can understand an older main registered animal that the breeder is rehoming and will withhold papers until the dog is desexed.

I would be definitely contacted the state body where the pup comes from. From what you have said - you have every right to be concerned. Something does not sound right.

[Aziah]

Showdog, I don't know where you get "most breeders don't chip until 7-8 weeks. I and many border collie breeder friends chip puppies at 6 weeks during vaccination time. Legally in Qld (may differ in other states), the puppy (or kitten) only needs to be over one kilogram in weight to be chipped. I can understand toy dogs being chipped later than 6 weeks.

As for papers and even with DNA, I would expect them in normal situations by the time the pup is 12 weeks old. Queensland allows breeders to register pups directly into the new owner's name whereas other states register in the breeders name and then the dog needs to be transferred to the new owner. Average turn around time for Dogs Queensland is about 10 business days. The papers are sent back to the breeder for checking, then the breeder is expected to mail out the new certificates to the new owners.

Breeders in Queensland HAVE been fined and/or suspended for NOT supplying papers. I know of a few, and have even had to write/witness stat declarations for one breeder who is still suspended (indefiniely).

If for limited register - there is no reason why the papers need to be held for contract reasons (Eg. desexing). I can understand an older main registered animal that the breeder is rehoming and will withhold papers until the dog is desexed.

I would be definitely contacted the state body where the pup comes from. From what you have said - you have every right to be concerned. Something does not sound right.

Probably because most breeders Showdog (and I) know don't vaccinate until 7-8 weeks vs the old 6 weeks.

[alpha bet]

Aziah, I agree with you... the new system for vaccination is to vaccinate the pups at about 8 weeks - so like you we vaccinate and microchip at 8 weeks and then I send off the papers for registration... which means pups go home without papers but I supply my own 5 generation Pedigree for the owners information. I usually have the official papers back from Dogs Vic by the time pups are about 12 weeks and then forward to the new homes. Even if you have to organise DNA this takes perhaps 3-4 weeks at most... therefore you could have the official paperwork to the new owners by about 16 weeks.

It is a case of breeders getting their paperwork organised pronto.... and when you consider that most pedigree dogs are $1300 to $2000 it is well worth breeders making the effort.

For a breeder not to supply papers for a 10 month old dog is disgraceful.... they should get a big slap on the wrist from the association.... No wonder there are members of the public who get frustrated with how hard it is to deal with breeders and end up with 'oodles'

Breeders need to act more professionally.

[oakway]

Showdog, I don't know where you get "most breeders don't chip until 7-8 weeks. I and many border collie breeder friends chip puppies at 6 weeks during vaccination time. Legally in Qld (may differ in other states), the puppy (or kitten) only needs to be over one kilogram in weight to be chipped. I can understand toy dogs being chipped later than 6 weeks.

As for papers and even with DNA, I would expect them in normal situations by the time the pup is 12 weeks old. Queensland allows breeders to register pups directly into the new owner's name whereas other states register in the breeders name and then the dog needs to be transferred to the new owner. Average turn around time for Dogs Queensland is about 10 business days. The papers are sent back to the breeder for checking, then the breeder is expected to mail out the new certificates to the new owners.

Breeders in Queensland HAVE been fined and/or suspended for NOT supplying papers. I know of a few, and have even had to write/witness stat declarations for one breeder who is still suspended (indefiniely).

If for limited register - there is no reason why the papers need to be held for contract reasons (Eg. desexing). I can understand an older main registered animal that the breeder is rehoming and will withhold papers until the dog is desexed.

I would be definitely contacted the state body where the pup comes from. From what you have said - you have every right to be concerned. Something does not sound right.

Probably because most breeders Showdog (and I) know don't vaccinate until 7-8 weeks vs the old 6 weeks.

I also do not vaccinate or micro chip till 8 weeks.

[WeeRedDogs]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your assistance and advice. I emailed Dogs NSW and they were really helpful. They contacted the breeder to ask why the papers hadn't been supplied. I received them in the mail 2 weeks later.

The breeder didn't respond to my email and hasn't provided any explanation for the delay. I'm pretty angry that the breeder clearly had the papers the whole time, despite telling me they were sent in July, but at least I've got them now.

Cheers

[MelissaS]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your assistance and advice. I emailed Dogs NSW and they were really helpful. They contacted the breeder to ask why the papers hadn't been supplied. I received them in the mail 2 weeks later.

The breeder didn't respond to my email and hasn't provided any explanation for the delay. I'm pretty angry that the breeder clearly had the papers the whole time, despite telling me they were sent in July, but at least I've got them now.

Cheers

Good news that you now have the papers :) shame the breeder didn't communicate with you or send the papers sooner. Must be a relief to have them finally.

Edited December 16, 2014 by MelissaS