Looking Into Cane Corso

[melzawelza]

Maybe see if the breeder is open to a vasectomy or ovary-sparing spey instead of full desexing at that age? That way the dog is rendered infertile but still keeps its hormones.

[Dave73]

Maybe see if the breeder is open to a vasectomy or ovary-sparing spey instead of full desexing at that age? That way the dog is rendered infertile but still keeps its hormones.

That's a good idea.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Dave73

[gsd114]

I have mentioned that today but its a matter of finding a vet in Sydney to do it. They are going to ask this when they enquire about the effects of EAD.

Edited February 15, 2015 by gsd114

[gsd114]

I owned a Corso and never will again. I've met some nice ones, and there was a period where a tonne of them were turning up in rescue but I don't think that's the case now. There was a very dodgy breeder in Western Sydney that was pumping dysplastic pups out - I think he's shut down now. While every dog is an individual, I've found Corso's to be super smart and very easily trainable. However they have a very high pain tolerance and tend to be able to ignore corrections, especially when they're in drive. They are commonly dog aggressive, and make great guard dogs (simply because of their size and formidable bark).

My own Corso male was a rescue at 15 months, and I was his 7th home. He was very dog and animal aggressive. Tolerant of strangers and affectionate with me and my family. He thrived with regular clicker/marker training and a strict management regime. Super, super smart dog. He had a crazy high prey drive, which I don't think is typical of the breed or of Mastiffs in general. When he wanted to get to another dog or animal, there was no correction under the sun that could get to him. He went from 1 to 10 in a split second and had a bad habit of redirecting onto me. He could have been a phenomenal dog with the right upbringing and a great dog sport candidate. Although I've met more laid back ones, they're still not a dog for everyone and I would strongly recommend you hire a trainer.

I agree re. early desexing. If you're a competent dog owner then you can manage an intact dog. It's not worth the developmental risk, in my opinion, to desex before 3 years.

I don't believe that all aggressive dogs are born that way, I believe that its upbringing has an awful lot to do with it. These dogs are very stable when I went, we met a few older ones and they were very nice stable dogs.

[Salukifan]

I don't believe that all aggressive dogs are born that way, I believe that its upbringing has an awful lot to do with it. These dogs are very stable when I went, we met a few older ones and they were very nice stable dogs.

Genetics plays a part in aggression. Not the only part but upbringing is not a cure all unfortunately for the inherited temperament some dogs get.

Personally if all a person is after is a pet, I'd be going for a breed longer established here and with a larger gene pool. It tends to open options for breeders, reduce prices and provide more certainty about the temperament of the dog you are going to get.

I'd be getting a Rottweiler.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Haredown Whippets

[gsd114]

It does play a part and I didn't say it didn't but I disagree that its all lost if they do have aggression from there genetics, Ive seen it rectified more times than you could believe. Well Itacor are one of the premier breeder in the country and the Cane Corso has a lot less hereditary issues than a Rottweiler hence why they dont want a Rottweiler or GSD.

Edited February 15, 2015 by gsd114

[Pepper21]

It depends what's motivating the aggression. For a lot of game bred pits they want to fight because it's fun. For my boy that was his motivator too, as is the desire for terriers to kill vermin. For all those dogs, with each rep of that experience the behaviour gets reinforced and therefore stronger. I never said that aggression was solely genetic, but there certainly is a genetic component whether it's motivated by fear or fun.

Rottweilers are similar in many ways, temperament and health-wise. Whatever your decision, choose your breeder and lines carefully.

[melzawelza]

It depends what's motivating the aggression. For a lot of game bred pits they want to fight because it's fun. For my boy that was his motivator too, as is the desire for terriers to kill vermin. For all those dogs, with each rep of that experience the behaviour gets reinforced and therefore stronger. I never said that aggression was solely genetic, but there certainly is a genetic component whether it's motivated by fear or fun.

Rottweilers are similar in many ways, temperament and health-wise. Whatever your decision, choose your breeder and lines carefully.

Genetics absolutely have a part to play and a lot of aggression can be based in genetics, but current environment and management can modify that, too. You only have to look at the fight bust dogs rescued in the USA and then rehomed into homes often with other dogs and pets. You can't get more game than dogs bred, trained and used in dog fighting, yet so many of them go on to socialise with other dogs beautifully with a bit of training and guidance.

Edited February 16, 2015 by melzawelza

[Pepper21]

It depends what's motivating the aggression. For a lot of game bred pits they want to fight because it's fun. For my boy that was his motivator too, as is the desire for terriers to kill vermin. For all those dogs, with each rep of that experience the behaviour gets reinforced and therefore stronger. I never said that aggression was solely genetic, but there certainly is a genetic component whether it's motivated by fear or fun.

Rottweilers are similar in many ways, temperament and health-wise. Whatever your decision, choose your breeder and lines carefully.

Genetics absolutely have a part to play and a lot of aggression can be based in genetics, but current environment and management can modify that, too. You only have to look at the fight bust dogs rescued in the USA and then rehomed into homes often with other dogs and pets. You can't get more game than dogs bred, trained and used in dog fighting, yet so many of them go on to socialise with other dogs beautifully with a bit of training and guidance.

Aggression is certainly modifiable, regardless of whether it's innate or learned, or both. But having to modify and manage aggression in a 50kg Mastiff is quite a task, whether it's directed at other dogs, animals or people. I'm not a small, weak or inexperienced dog person and I would never want to do it again, nor wish it on anybody else. The 'many' game bred pits that go on to pet homes are the exception, not the rule. The VAST majority are put to sleep. Especially the ones from notifiable fighting rings and lines, who have been selected for a high pain threshold and extreme aggression towards any creature. Talk to any breeder of ADBA registered Pits (not the watered down, bully versions from the UKC) and they will tell you the same thing.

This is pretty off topic, and I apologise to the OP for hijacking the thread. The point I'm trying to make is; if you're going to get a Corso, get it from a good breeder (Itacor are FANTASTIC), train and neutralize the crap out of it, which may mean hiring the services of a good trainer like Steve Courtney. Set up a solid foundation (Through excellent genetics, training, socialisation/neutralization etc) and you will avoid the EPIC problem that is a large, powerful dog who knows its own size and strength and thoroughly enjoyed using that against anything that tested it. Large dogs bring with them a great amount of responsibility. In my experience with the breed, I have seen just as many unstable (both in structure and temperament) dogs than I have stable ones. I've met Presa's and Dogos that are the same, and many other smaller breeds, but their size and strength make them a liability if they do have a temperament flaw.

[gsd114]

Thanks Pepper21 I will pass this on but im staying out of it as my motives were questioned by some. They will be signing up to ask the questions.

They will be going to Steve actually if they get a Itacor pup its the desexing at 8 weeks that has them spooked. But that's my last word on it.

[melzawelza]

It depends what's motivating the aggression. For a lot of game bred pits they want to fight because it's fun. For my boy that was his motivator too, as is the desire for terriers to kill vermin. For all those dogs, with each rep of that experience the behaviour gets reinforced and therefore stronger. I never said that aggression was solely genetic, but there certainly is a genetic component whether it's motivated by fear or fun.

Rottweilers are similar in many ways, temperament and health-wise. Whatever your decision, choose your breeder and lines carefully.

Genetics absolutely have a part to play and a lot of aggression can be based in genetics, but current environment and management can modify that, too. You only have to look at the fight bust dogs rescued in the USA and then rehomed into homes often with other dogs and pets. You can't get more game than dogs bred, trained and used in dog fighting, yet so many of them go on to socialise with other dogs beautifully with a bit of training and guidance.

The 'many' game bred pits that go on to pet homes are the exception, not the rule.

They were the exception ten years ago when it was commonplace for all dogs rescued from fight busts to be euthanasied without assessment as it was assumed that they would not be safe for rehoming. The Michael Vick case paved the way for dogs to actually be assessed as individuals and the majority of the dogs from big busts these days are given that opportunity and a huge amount of them are suitable for rehoming. Sadly there are still many States and counties that do not give the dogs the opportunity for assessment as individuals.

One of the biggest busts in the last few years was the #367 dogs:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/367-dogs-rescued-where-are-they-now-update_n_6213876.html

I had the pleasure of meeting some of these dogs when I was in the States last year. A friend of mine that runs a foster/playgroup program at a shelter in Sacramento has had about 18 of these dogs in care since they were seized while the owner waits for a conviction. She runs playgroups with them. I also met some of Michael Vick's lovely dogs, too.

The euthanasia cases are typically the exception to the rule when the dogs are given the chance to be assessed as individuals.

I do agree with you though that there's a difference in skill level needed in controlling a 20kg APBT with issues compared to a 50kg Mastiff with issues.

Edited February 16, 2015 by melzawelza

[Pepper21]

It depends what's motivating the aggression. For a lot of game bred pits they want to fight because it's fun. For my boy that was his motivator too, as is the desire for terriers to kill vermin. For all those dogs, with each rep of that experience the behaviour gets reinforced and therefore stronger. I never said that aggression was solely genetic, but there certainly is a genetic component whether it's motivated by fear or fun.

Rottweilers are similar in many ways, temperament and health-wise. Whatever your decision, choose your breeder and lines carefully.

Genetics absolutely have a part to play and a lot of aggression can be based in genetics, but current environment and management can modify that, too. You only have to look at the fight bust dogs rescued in the USA and then rehomed into homes often with other dogs and pets. You can't get more game than dogs bred, trained and used in dog fighting, yet so many of them go on to socialise with other dogs beautifully with a bit of training and guidance.

The 'many' game bred pits that go on to pet homes are the exception, not the rule.

They were the exception ten years ago when it was commonplace for all dogs rescued from fight busts to be euthanasied without assessment as it was assumed that they would not be safe for rehoming. The Michael Vick case paved the way for dogs to actually be assessed as individuals and the majority of the dogs from big busts these days are given that opportunity and a huge amount of them are suitable for rehoming. Sadly there are still many States and counties that do not give the dogs the opportunity for assessment as individuals.

One of the biggest busts in the last few years was the #367 dogs:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/367-dogs-rescued-where-are-they-now-update_n_6213876.html

I had the pleasure of meeting some of these dogs when I was in the States last year. A friend of mine that runs a foster/playgroup program at a shelter in Sacramento has had about 18 of these dogs in care since they were seized while the owner waits for a conviction. She runs playgroups with them. I also met some of Michael Vick's lovely dogs, too.

The euthanasia cases are typically the exception to the rule when the dogs are given the chance to be assessed as individuals.

I do agree with you though that there's a difference in skill level needed in controlling a 20kg APBT with issues compared to a 50kg Mastiff with issues.

I don't want to get too off topic here. I agree that dogs should be assessed individually and given a chance at training. Whether the majority of them are capable of being re-homed into multiple dog households is something I have to see to believe. If you would like to discuss further, maybe start another thread. It's an interesting topic worthy of debate but I just don't really want to hijack the thread any more than it has been. This will be my last comment here unless we're talking about the Corso breed.

[gsd114]

Just thought I would let you know our friends have spoken to the specialist vets here and OS and all have said do not get any large breed female pup desexed at 8 weeks under any circumstances. Most weren't even keen on the Tubal ligation and preferred the dog to stay intact at least till 12 months at the earliest.

[Nekhbet]

That's a very wise thought gsd114... if you can live through one season at least to help the dog mature and help prevent spey incontinence. Season is not that hard to live with I have an entire male and 2 entire bitches in the house, OK you have to separate them but if you raise the dog to be respectful and have basic manners it's not difficult or cause too much inconvenience at all.