How To Be Rude In Public

[Stressmagnet]

So, I take Ernie every morning for a 45-55 minute walk/training session at the local park. It's more of a socialisation/training thing - my kids wear him out on his second walk later in the day.

The structure of the walk is:

Start off 15 minutes: walk nicely to heel, practice some sits, drops, look at mes, ignore the bike/person/etc

20 minutes - offleash (with a recall leash on tho): sniff around, have some fun, greet other dogs politely (hence the recall leash), stay close, stay until release, look at me - but have fun!

20 minutes: back on short leash, heel, sits, look at me, drops etc.

I don't know how to tell people to go away when I am in the midst of training. They walk right up when I am in the midst of a stay or a sit or a drop and SQUUEEEE or let their dog charge into his face, or start conversations about how well behaved he is and how their dog isn't, or how I should relax and let him off leash because he's 'just a puppy and let him have some fun'.

Ernie just about yanked my arm out of my socket today, charging up to a dog who was charging at him. My fault, the incoming dog was behind me and i wasn't prepared.

The woman today stood there yapping oblivious while her dog displayed very dominate behaviours - charging, head on top of Ernie's back, paw on head etc and even though i was patently trying to get Ernie under control and to focus - she only said 'oh ahahahaha he won't pay attention to a treat if there's a dog to play with'. Um, yeah, I know. Another old fella told me 'to let him be a dog and not worry so much, he will grow out of it. stop trying'. I know he is a puppy but he will be a big strong dog and I need to ensure he grows up politely.

When I see another owner attempting to teach their dog some manners, I reel mine in, and get him to practice sits, or drops until the other dog owner is finished or moved on. Am I being unrealistic?

I don't want to spend all training time in the back yard, Ernie needs to learn doggie manners, get out an about and see the world, and to focus on me when there are distractions but am I just a raging bitch? If so, I will confine his lessons back to the back yard until he's older.

If not, what are some things I can say to gently and politely ask them to move on? Or get their dog under control? No where have I ever read that 'offleash' = 'out of control'. Ernie is really good offleash, sticks close, runs ahead but waits and looks back, races to catch up - but I have worked hard on this, and we aren't nowhere near where we need to be. He will still ignore me if there is another dog or a friendly squeally person within 10 metres.

What can I do?

[aliwake]

It might not be ideal, but that's the sort of behaviour you get in off-lead areas. Most people go there to let their dogs run amok and play with other dogs.

I guess training with distraction is good, but given he's still on a long lead anyway, could you just use a normal park area to do your training, rather than an off-lead area? Then have less time in the off-lead park purely for socialisation with other dogs, if you're interested in that?

Sounds like you're doing an amazing job with your training. It's unfortunate, but I think you'll need to expect 90% of the dogs you run into will be less well trained than your dog, and lower your expectation accordingly...

[Stressmagnet]

Thank you. This IS a normal park - with a very small off leash area. It's one of three I can get to and the owners all seem to be the same.

I really do think it's me. I'm too controlling or something. It can't be everyone else. I've met one guy (one!) who asked politely if it was ok for our dogs to meet - and he had a beaut 14 month Dobie girl. Everyone else just seems to assume I want Ernie to meet/wrestle/play with their dog - on or off lead. It's frustrating me, because sometimes I just want him to walk past politely.

I think it's just been too long since I had a pup and I've forgotten dog culture. Which is why I asked for polite things to say yo folks who mean well.

[persephone]

IMO, the majority of folks use parks as a place for R&R ..and for their dogs to "play with others" .

Someone expecting to work seriously and undisturbed ? A rare happening!

I suggest buying/using one of these - how are folks/and their dogs to know to give you a wide berth otherwise?

[Stressmagnet]

I've got something like this - collar and leash have 'training' on them.

You are right. People use parks to relax and let their dogs have fun. I'll adjust my emotions accordingly.

[aliwake]

Thank you. This IS a normal park - with a very small off leash area. It's one of three I can get to and the owners all seem to be the same.

I really do think it's me. I'm too controlling or something. It can't be everyone else. I've met one guy (one!) who asked politely if it was ok for our dogs to meet - and he had a beaut 14 month Dobie girl. Everyone else just seems to assume I want Ernie to meet/wrestle/play with their dog - on or off lead. It's frustrating me, because sometimes I just want him to walk past politely.

I think it's just been too long since I had a pup and I've forgotten dog culture. Which is why I asked for polite things to say yo folks who mean well.

ah ok - is the off-lead area not fenced? I keep forgetting parks are a little different in nsw.

We have a small, fenced, off-lead area inside a larger general park, so the off-lead dogs are kept separate from the rest of the park. it would probably be possible to do training in the rest of the park without being bothered by off-lead dogs at all.

I remember looking online for parks near my in-laws on the central coast nsw, and they were just normal un-fenced parks that happen to be designated off lead areas - no fence! Is that the sort of thing you have?

[persephone]

A thought? have you tried the obedience bit on a footpath away from a main road ? Working on a footpath can be good - as there are often cooking smells /kids/ the odd cat /folks on 'gophers' - all that stuff :)

[raineth]

Look I totally, get you and it's SO frustrating!

Is there anywhere else you can take him to do your training? I know that's annoying and you shouldn't have to adjust what you're doing because you're doing nothing wrong, but I'm a little concerned that Ernie could end up being reactive by encountering so many rude off lead dogs. And that would be such a shame

Honestly I have not found any particular thing to say that is effective with everyone. As you have seen yourself, other people think they know what's best for your dog, and there's really not much you can say to these people that will stop them. Some people will respect you asking them to call their dog away, but just as many don't.

Because my girl is not at all comfortable anymore after being attacked by other people's dogs, if I see another dog I just get away from it as quickly as I can. I can only control me and her, I can't do much about other people and their dogs. This is really the only reliable method I have to keep other people's dogs away from her.

[Stressmagnet]

The off lead area is not fenced and unmarked. You need ESP to know it's there - or study the map.

I usually wirk with him on lead, off the footpath to avoid joggers and bikes and other dogs. If we are on the footpath, we are on lead and walking. In either case, with the exception of joggers and cyclists, folks bring their dog to us and want a bit of a natter and to offer advice (or compliments). The dogs are usually small or cattle dogs with no manners at all. Inside the imaginary posted off leash area, it's a free for all, which is why he's on his recall leash.

Lots of seniors with advice to give, or blokes with boofy dogs who are getting some recreation before heading off to work.

I think I'll just have to work in class and in the back yard and not be so uptight.

[raineth]

is there any other park you could go to that doesn't have an offlead bit at all? This might reduce the number of loose dogs you have to deal with.

I think it would be ok for you to work him on a long line in such a park, provided you're considerate, which it sounds like you are anyway.

Oh you can always throw a (full) poo bag at their dog. I've done that before when necessary. It does nothing for you reputation as a non- crazy person however

Edited October 30, 2014 by raineth

[Stressmagnet]

Poo bag!! Lol!

I live in the Gosford area. It's pretty doggy. I will see if I can find some smaller less popular parks but a lot of the smaller ones have the 'no dogs' signs up.

Taking Ernie to his first Puppy Class tonight so I'll ask the trainer if she knows of any less popular parks. I'd rather NOT Drive for 1/2 hour though - pity the ones all 5-10 minutes away are so crowded.

And maybe I should be less grumpy. The thing is, my last AmStaff pup was attacked by another AnStaff puppy (owner; "that's just how they PLAY' said with a giggle) and she turned dog aggressive and I can't go through that again, she was never comfortable on a leash after that, despite loads of training - she never recovered. And that alone may be MY issue - I'm letting past exoerience affect THIS dog.

GAH. Should have stuck to raising teenage girls - at least they aren't shy about telling you where you've screwed up.

[persephone]

welll- dogs CAN live happily never going to a park with other dogs :) - said partly light heartedly -

there are dogs to bee seen on walks, at Club/events ..and there are organised 'playdates', where the dogs can hoon around safely . . if a dog is taught to toilet on command , then the mess can be kept to a particular spot, too - so there is no need to visit a park for that purpose ....

[The Spotted Devil]

I hear you :)

I train a LOT in public areas - puppy stuff, obedience, agility, retrieving - and I cannot afford to have dogs get in my dogs' faces when I want them 100% focussed on me. I tend to go when others won't - early in the morning (did 5am at the beach with my Dally when he was young which was awesome!), late in the evening (yay for daylight savings), lunchtime (if possible), during school hours. I love it when the weather is crappy - a bit of rain and we get the whole place to ourselves :) I have a dozen different grounds not too far apart so that if I drive to one that is busy I can go elsewhere. Take half a day, look at google maps and go for a drive. You will be surprised at what is hidden away sometimes!

[Nushie]

We have rush hour at my local park between 6 & 7. EVERYONE is there. There will be about 20 dogs, plus people playing soccer and kids on the play ground. Our park is not big so with this many people and dogs it gets a bit crowded.

I walk down at 7:15 and have the place to myself. We might encounter 1 or 2 people with there dogs still there but generally they leave soon after, in which case I just hang around the other end. I guess we are lucky in the fact that most people will keep their dogs away from others if they are purposely hanging out on their own or just passing by the park.

You just need to find your quiet time. Even if it is 6am or 8pm (assuming it is well lit).

[suziwong66]

i hear you loud and clear - I had Wilbur wear a high viz vest with "L please ignore me i'm training" written on it when he was a pup and people STILL would interrupt/disrupt our training. I avoid any place where i will come across other dogs/owners whenever possible.

If people approach i try to display body language that shows i'm not going to engage with them. If people let their dog approach then i always say "call/pull your dog back"...I don't ask. If they say things like 'my dog is friendly' (all the while letting their doggy pull them toward us) i don't engage with them i repeat loudly 'recall your dog' and i keep repeating it until they do it. I never train in dog parks and i use extra long long-line leashes (i'll even clip several together) to do far-off recall and other work. I know that having them on a long line isn't ideal, but since i'm not in fenced off areas i feel safer having him on a long line. Wilbur has a pretty good recall and i think it's because i've kept him away from high distractions while i was training him early on. I only introduced distractions when i thought he was going to succeed rather than fail. I never allow unknown dogs to interact whether we're training or not. He was introduced to his sister (our new pup) 3 weeks ago and i thought he would be crazy distracted and super excited; how wrong i was. he's quite calm around her and when i do occasionally let them play he'll recall and disengage from her without too much problems. I'm super proud of him since i know how much work has gone into his recall these last three years.

To be honest, i probably come across as rude but i keep to myself and i want to be left alone to train my dog(s) and if someone approaches, i keep it short and sweet.

I've yet to find a great solution but i just keep on training in public spaces and deal with each situation as it arises.

Yesterday I took the puppy 11.5 weeks old to Maggie Beer's Farm shop for lunch. When i took her over to the grassed area to evacuate, i turned around and realised that a whole bunch of OS tourists had lined up behind me to watch Not ideal when i'm trying to teach a pup to evacuate on command and it's her first public evacuation I smiled briefly but didn't engage with anyone and got out of there as soon as possible. I know some people like their pups to meet and greet anyone and everyone but i don't. i like controlled meet and greets that are calm. I had one a little later at the paint store that i was going to; pup had a nice calm meet 'n greet with the owner while we discussed dogs/training etc

Good luck!

[kelpiecuddles]

If I go out with my friendly face on walks of any kind for us take twice as long. Everyone wants to stop us so they can stroke her ears... Some days I don't mind every second person stopping me to ask me the same set of questions about her but if I'm in a hurry or want to keep to myself I find I really have to just keep my head down, not make eye contact and put on an air of being unapproachable. Sometimes it works...

[Stressmagnet]

Looks like I'll have to practice my 'Bitchy Resting Face' (Google it!).

I'm going to find some less popular parks. As I do chemo, I've got limited energy and it gets used up pretty fast as the day wears on - so after I drop the girls at school is MY best time. Not ideal for Ernie.

We just got back from Puppy Class which was a great reminder of how exhausting I find people lately. And I know it's my age; my treatment and my pleasant personality. Five pups. Two had what I would already classify as aggressive/reactive issues at six months - barking and snarling and actively lunging at all the other pups. A third was a staffy (bless!) who wanted to play and spent the hour trying to strangle himself at the end of the lead. Ignored everything. A fourth was a Maltese whose owner snatched her up protectively every time a dog came near.

Ernie looked like a star even though by the end he was fed up and bored and didn't do a thing I asked,

I think he'll be getting enough exposure to folks and their dogs over the next 2 months. Time for quiet training and bonding and sniffing without distractions. I'll find other places to go.

[kelpiecuddles]

See below. My good friend assures me that my cat has an excellent bitchy resting face.

[RiverStar-Aura]

Stressmagnet I completely understand how you feel because I'm exactly the same. I have one very popular off-leash park that Zeus has issues with (he likes to run off and eat McDonalds as there's one across the road from this particular park) so I've been working on his recall (I've long since given up though and we don't go to this park any more). I don't believe in the "how else is the general public to know you're doing training if you don't have flashing neon lights" mentality -- it's not hard to recognise someone doing some training with their dog(s).

Zeus and I could be in the middle of heel work, roll over, playing dead, spinning, begging <insert complete trick regime> and people would STILL let their dogs come barrelling in. This is potentially problematic because Zeus doesn't like being interrupted when he's in "training mode" and will more often than not give the rude dog a warning "bugger off, I'm learning things here" squeak (it's not even a bark sound he makes) and I'm worried that if the other dog takes his warning the wrong way that all hell will break loose. I just don't want to risk it.

The regular park goers were generally quite good because we all know each other and they'd say a quick hello on their way past us but then there's always the exception.

There was one instance I was travelling with my dogs and I made the huge mistake of stopping by the fenced in park at Penrith -- hoo boy NEVER AGAIN! I was off in a far corner with no one around and ALL the dogs came over to annoy Zeus, Kirah and myself and their owners wouldn't call the dogs away. I posted my frustration out on their Facebook page only to be met with cries of "if you want to do training don't do it at the dog park" or "the park is for the dogs to run around" blah blah blah. I tried explaining that just because it's an off lead park doesn't mean my dogs MUST/HAVE to interact with the others but again I was shot down.

This is the mentality that ruin it for others. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way to train around high distractions in dog parks just yet.

[Stressmagnet]

Just saw a post on a fb page I frequent about one of the members labs being attacked. Lots of 'poor thing' and one lone comment pointing out that the attacked dog had been known to start fights in the past.

Damn.

I had avoided dog parks (the fenced in ones) for this reason but I thought this particular group was safe since they are all labs and the owners seemed cluey. It meets once a fortnight and I reckoned Ernie could have a fortnightly vacation from his uptight owner to just run around.

Now I'm going to have to rethink this too.

Why oh why don't they teach reading your dog in puppy/canine classes instead of all the focus on sit/stay/drop etc? I think it would be far more useful.