Help Me Pick My Next Breed

[RiverStar-Aura]

I find it such a shame that BCs and Kelpies dominate the agility world -- there are so many amazing breeds. I prefer to stick with a breed I love and go from there, especially if you're not looking at getting into competitive agility.

My club has quite a mix of breeds: BS Groenendaels, BCs, Kelpies, English Springer Spaniel, Staffords, Smooth Coat Fox Terrier, Norfolk Terrier, Norwich Terriers, Weimaraner, Shelties, Collie Rough, GSP (who is amazing!), Cocker Spaniels, GSD, Chihuahua, Toy Poodles, Aussie Sheps.

Then there's my two an Aussie Terrier and a Beagle x JRT!

[Nekhbet]

If you look for an agility mal then look at a bitch. My bitches range from 24kg to 28kg. Not every working line Mal is over driven, even my highest drive dog if doing activities regularly with an owner and taught to settle (as with any driven dog really) would be fine with it. Saying that if you want a dog to excel, once a week wont suit even an ANKC level drive dog.

[J...]

Spend some time at trials and training looking at dogs whose temperament and drive you like - it might come in a package you don't expect.

As for 'drive' I love this blog post...

http://thedogsnobs.com/2014/10/27/love-the-one-youre-with-idiot/

There is a big difference between sufficient drive for a 3 day seminar and the drive level of the dog you're looking at in Vic... I have the "super consistent" and the "drivey", and they are wildly different dogs in their requirements for training, handling, strength and conditioning.

[Cosmolo]

I really think (honestly, not actually being bias!) you would love a rough or broken coat JRT.

I love kelpies and ACD's and don't mind border collies but i can picture you with a JRT far more easily. A nice Lagotto would be worth considering though maybe a little too heavy for ideal agility dogs.

[ness]

My word of advice - remember whatever breed you pick you still have to live with it and that includes consideration for living with it should for some reason it not be able to be the performance dog you wish. Might put a damper on things but life can sometimes get in the way of well intentioned plans.

[megan_]

I really think (honestly, not actually being bias!) you would love a rough or broken coat JRT.

I love kelpies and ACD's and don't mind border collies but i can picture you with a JRT far more easily. A nice Lagotto would be worth considering though maybe a little too heavy for ideal agility dogs.

Last time we spoke you said a cairn - but I suspect that you wanted md to get one so you could puppy sit it!

I can definitely picture myself and my current pack with a Gilbert - oops, I mean a broken coat JRT :-). Gilbert has the perfect temperament for me - confident, happy, outgoing but not swamping every dog and human, nut I don't know how typical that is.

Every lagotto I've ever met has been weak nerved/ reactive :-(.

Of course when it comes to the crunch (and we're talking years here...) I'll be hounding you for advice because you know me and my "quirks" well.

Jess - I saw that article before and laughed. I'm not an expert it I'm also not someone who thinks every problem I have will be solved by a high drive dog. ( I'll get me a BC and win the nationals etc ). My boy actually has more get up and go than many BC's I see. Training my dogs is my hobby and agility is our major sport so I want a dog who loves it and has the potential to excel. My boy loves it and is pretty darn good despite me. I definitely love the ones I'm with and I'm not planning on another dog for a fair while as I need to build my skills, fitness and handling skills do that I can old with the dog I want. I've also got my hands full with my current ratbags.

ness - agree, which is why I'm on the fence with BC's . Some I love, some don't appeal to me at all. Part of my hesitancy also stems from the health issues that you and other people have experienced even though you've done all the right things.

Thanks everyone for your replies (and keep them coming).

[Salukifan]

If you are already competing in agility, you probably know what breeds are competitive. However, breed is only the start of the equation.

Be honest with yourself. Do you have, or do you think you can work to acquire, the kind of reflexes and fitness it takes to handle a really high drive, hair trigger dog on a course? I've seen quite a few "dogs for the job" barking and spinning in frustration because their handlers really aren't capable of handling them at the level of expertise they need to get the most from them.

If you are prepared to put the work in then I think the 'dog for the job' is one breed. Border Collie. Not just ANY BC, but one from performance lines. There are kennels out there with wait lists as long as your arm who produce Agility Champions in spades. If you want to be a top competitor, you head there.

But a word of caution. Super high drive, super resilient dogs often come with attitude to match. They need boundaries and they can be reactive.

If you just want a solid prospect the breeds open up. Most of the lighter framed working and gun dog breeds. Belgian Shepherds, Kelpies, Utility Gundogs (including the Brittany) are all worth a look. I'd go a Toy Poodle over the Mini's - they tend to be more drivey.

Choose a dog you want to live with. If the fates conspire and your dog becomes unsound, you've got a long time to live with your choice.

And good luck!

How fit is your current dog? If he's shutting down after half a day, you might want to see if you can improve his fitness.

[megan_]

He's very fit and can exercise for ages - he just doesn't like to repeat things over and over. When you're learning new handling , this often happens. He also hates hest . He's an oodles I bought online, so I certainly don't expect him to match up to orformance bred dogs. That said, when he's on he is fast and drivey. I love training him and I'm not looking for a dog to replace him. Rather , my next dog will be selected with my sport in mind, knowing that life happens and I might land up with a dog with low drive/who doesn't enjoy agility (I know of one such dog from a performance kennel and from great lines).

Part of the reason I'm not getting a dog in the near future is that I want to spend the next few years getting fit and enhancing my handling skills ( which Ione if the reasons I'm learning SGs new system do that I can handle from a very big distance ).

Just to be clear - I'm not looking for a new dog to replace my current one. Fergs will be trained until he retires , and then we'll train something with less impact. Lucy. - 7, doesn't trial and no plans to - gets training too because I believe every dog needs to use their brains etc.

Edited October 31, 2014 by megan_

[Kavik]

Count a Kelpie out then - they don't like heaps of repetition either :laugh: They are also not as forgiving as a BC.

Here is the winning run from the FCI worlds comp held recently - really is amazing! So smooth, and the turns are just spectacular!

[Sayreovi]

I agree with those that say get a breed you can live with first.

I am constantly told to get a BC and being surrounded by so many I love doing flyball and agility it is hard and sometimes I think about heading to the "dark side" but for now Tollers have me.

You've probably seen my little girl around, I adore her, she is quick as a flash and incredibly intelligent. However like most Tollers she hates repetitions and is very aware of me and my feelings whereas it looks like most BCs couldn't give a s**t what their owners are feeling lol

We are working on that but if she ran as fast at agility as she does in flyball she would easily push the top BCs on speed. Flyball is where she currently excels as she is super competitive and is a drivey girl but agility doesn't hold the same competition aspect for her.

However she is bit of a freak of nature, and there are alot of Tollers out there that are just too soft and it seems to be harder to get one that can be as competitive as the Borders which is a shame as they do very well overseas.

[JulesP]

However like most Tollers she hates repetitions and is very aware of me and my feelings whereas it looks like most BCs couldn't give a s**t what their owners are feeling lol

W

Completely not true. All my borders have been very sensitive to how I feel. Which is why I have stopped competing as it freaks me out too much and upsets the dogs. No way could I even go out and train them if I was in a bad mood. If I am in the house and upset and they are outside, they know and will start scratching at the dog and whining. Can not hide anything from them!

[The Spotted Devil]

Yep that's why I run an ESS in retrieving and a Dally and ESS in agility/obedience. I get so many people telling me I should get a Lab for retrieving or a BC for agility but I just LOVE living with my dogs. And every dog comes with challenges - whilst my Dally was really hard work to begin with and is not the fastest dog on course he is incredibly consistent and has picked up thirds/seconds in Masters Agility with 70 plus dogs entered and has won Open Jumping/Agility from decent fields as well. He's also made me a MUCH better trainer :D

Edited November 1, 2014 by The Spotted Devil

[JulesP]

And I don't have border collies so I can compete in dog sports :) At no time has that ever come into why I got my first border and continued in the breed.

[sheena]

However like most Tollers she hates repetitions and is very aware of me and my feelings whereas it looks like most BCs couldn't give a s**t what their owners are feeling lol

W

Completely not true. All my borders have been very sensitive to how I feel. Which is why I have stopped competing as it freaks me out too much and upsets the dogs. No way could I even go out and train them if I was in a bad mood. If I am in the house and upset and they are outside, they know and will start scratching at the dog and whining. Can not hide anything from them!

Yes....this...times 2

[Sayreovi]

However like most Tollers she hates repetitions and is very aware of me and my feelings whereas it looks like most BCs couldn't give a s**t what their owners are feeling lol

W

Completely not true. All my borders have been very sensitive to how I feel. Which is why I have stopped competing as it freaks me out too much and upsets the dogs. No way could I even go out and train them if I was in a bad mood. If I am in the house and upset and they are outside, they know and will start scratching at the dog and whining. Can not hide anything from them!

Yes....this...times 2

:laugh: Knew some people would comment on that hence why I said most and there are exceptions to every rule but I know a tonne of Borders from flyball and agility and that's what I see.

[JulesP]

However like most Tollers she hates repetitions and is very aware of me and my feelings whereas it looks like most BCs couldn't give a s**t what their owners are feeling lol

W

Completely not true. All my borders have been very sensitive to how I feel. Which is why I have stopped competing as it freaks me out too much and upsets the dogs. No way could I even go out and train them if I was in a bad mood. If I am in the house and upset and they are outside, they know and will start scratching at the dog and whining. Can not hide anything from them!

Yes....this...times 2

:laugh: Knew some people would comment on that hence why I said most and there are exceptions to every rule but I know a tonne of Borders from flyball and agility and that's what I see.

And how do you know that those dogs aren't the exception to the rule?

There are a bunch of borders in Vic that are very competitive in flyball and agility but I would not call them typical of the breed.

[DeltaCharlie]

It also may be an outsiders perspective :) Out of 9 border collies we only have 3 that are suitable for multi day seminars. Those 3 would just keep going as long as someone put equipment in front of them. The others get offended if we ask them to do something twice, as though they were the ones who made the mistake. Some of ours would keep working but start offering all sorts of bizarre options because the first one must not have been right. We also have a few who would go and lie down and give us the finger, in a manner that screams "get yourself together and then come back and get me when you are ready".

[Sayreovi]

However like most Tollers she hates repetitions and is very aware of me and my feelings whereas it looks like most BCs couldn't give a s**t what their owners are feeling lol

W

Completely not true. All my borders have been very sensitive to how I feel. Which is why I have stopped competing as it freaks me out too much and upsets the dogs. No way could I even go out and train them if I was in a bad mood. If I am in the house and upset and they are outside, they know and will start scratching at the dog and whining. Can not hide anything from them!

Yes....this...times 2

:laugh: Knew some people would comment on that hence why I said most and there are exceptions to every rule but I know a tonne of Borders from flyball and agility and that's what I see.

And how do you know that those dogs aren't the exception to the rule?

There are a bunch of borders in Vic that are very competitive in flyball and agility but I would not call them typical of the breed.

Yes, maybe they are the exception but if the OP is looking at BCs to compete with in agility maybe it's something they need to be aware of?

Of course maybe it's the dogs getting frustrated with the way they are being handled and over the course of months/years have learnt to give the handler the finger and do what they want? :)

Would people have been less offended if instead of feelings I should have said doing?

Like I said it's just something I've noticed in the 10 years I've been competing and watching all the Borders that dominate both sports :)

[Aidan3]

I think the Portuguese Water Dog is one of the most under-rated breeds out there. Not sure how they'd go in agility, probably very well.

[Kavik]

I think the Portuguese Water Dog is one of the most under-rated breeds out there. Not sure how they'd go in agility, probably very well.

There is one that competes in Sydney, does OK.