Pet Insurance And Designer Breeds

[Yonjuro]

I was reading on a UK based husky forum about a person complaining about the increases in Petplan premiums. Apparently there has been an 200% increase in claims from owners of these new 'designer breeds' that has caused the increases across the board

Obviously this is all anecdotal so take it as you will :)

My renewal is rapidly approaching so will see what happens with my premiums. In any case we have discussed the increases to death so this post is really only about this 'designer breed' fiasco :)

[Florise]

I thought discussion of designer dog issues was against forum rules.

[Roova]

Hmmmmm.

I wish Insurance companies worked out their premium based on more than just the name of a breed. For example, if your breed has known health problems and you can provide evidence your dogs parents were health tested it should mean a lowered premium. Its in their benefit to have less claims on preventable problems I would have thought.

I know there's a lot of other factors involved in health too but surely there's some way of offering an incentive to those who try and do the right thing? I realise that discounts rescue and crossbreds but hopefully there's some other way incentives could be offered there too?

[Yonjuro]

I thought discussion of designer dog issues was against forum rules.

This post is merely to discuss the possible reasons for increases in premiums which affect some of we pure breed owners.

This site was created for pure bred dog discussion (ANKC recognised breeds)

The primary purpose of this forum is to promote and discuss pure bred dogs (as recognised by the ANKC) so we ask you respect our aim when visiting here. If you own a cross breed dog, you are also welcome here, but we ask that you refer to it by its proper name (eg a pug-x or cavalier-x instead of the designer term 'pugalier').

This topic relates to how a type of dog is impacting pure breed dogs. there is no mention of any names.

No denigration of pure bred dogs

Speaks for itself. This is a primarily a pure bred dog forum (ANKC recognised breeds) and was created to promote and discuss these breeds. If you don't think pure bred dogs make the perfect pets, then maybe this forum is not for you.

No denigration of pure breed dogs here.

In any case, report it if you think this contravenes forum policy.

[Florise]

This post is merely to discuss the possible reasons for increases in premiums which affect some of we pure breed owners.

Oh so you have changed your mind since your original post then? OK. Whatever.

In any case we have discussed the increases to death so this post is really only about this 'designer breed' fiasco :)

We HAVE discussed the increases to death :) I pulled up the other 41 discussion for you

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

Edited October 18, 2014 by Florise

[Yonjuro]

This post is merely to discuss the possible reasons for increases in premiums which affect some of we pure breed owners.

Oh so you have changed your mind since your original post then? OK. Whatever.

In any case we have discussed the increases to death so this post is really only about this 'designer breed' fiasco :)

We HAVE discussed the increases to death :) I pulled up the other 41 discussion for you

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

Thanks Florise, I must have missed the part where this aspect or potential reason for the increases was discussed. The simple thing would be to not read the topic if you have no interest :)

Edited October 18, 2014 by Yonjuro

[coogie]

This is the list of Petplan Australia's "Select" breeds - the breeds they charge higher premiums for:

Bandog, Bavarian Mountain Hound, Bergamasco Shepherd Dog, Briard, Blood Hound, Boerboel, Beauceron, BerneseMountain Dog, Bracco, All Bulldogs (i.e. English, American, Australian, Miniature, etc.), Bull Arab, Deerhound, Dogue deBordeaux, Entlebucher Mountain Dog, Estrela Mountain Dog, Grand Blue De Gascoigne, Great Dane, Greater Swiss MountainDog, Hamiltonstovare, Hungarian Kuvasz, Irish Wolfhound, Komondor, Maremma Sheepdog, Leonberger, All Mastiff Breeds,Newfoundland, Old English Sheepdog, Polish Lowland Sheepdog, Pyrenean Mountain Dog, Rottweiler, Russian Black Terrier, SharPei, St Bernard or any crosses of these breeds.

I gave up trying to find the Petplan UK list it was either too well hidden or not there. I also got very annoyed by the drop down breed picker on the quote page - judging by some of the completely laughable names there must be a lot more DDs springing up.

I have what is deemed a select breed - Shar Pei, the premiums have gone up again this year and we are now paying $1,310.00 per dog, per year. That said I have also just received a check for close to $3,000.00 for Issy's recent MCT treatment. Cheque arrived less than two weeks after claim was submitted, no questions asked.

I did query the cost for select breeds last year - I called and asked to speak to someone other than the direct call centre - someone called me back and their explanation was that whilst select breeds make up a tiny (I can't recall the % but it was less than 10) proportion of the dogs they insure, they account for over 80% of the claims. It might have just been sales patter of course, but it did give me something to think about.

For me Petplan have been value for money and the service good over the years - minor hiccup earlier this year when they seemed to have an admin meltdown. Still wish I had paid the premiums for "nothing" though as it would mean Issy was sound and well!

[OSoSwift]

I have been trying to contqact them for weeks, left numerous messages to discuss why my dogs of the same breeds, no previous claims and different ages, but not old had a $60 difference in premiums. So far I have not recieved a call back and I am getting pissed off.

[coogie]

I have been trying to contqact them for weeks, left numerous messages to discuss why my dogs of the same breeds, no previous claims and different ages, but not old had a $60 difference in premiums. So far I have not recieved a call back and I am getting pissed off.

That's shocking OsoSwift, do they just not answer the phone? I take their name and ask for their email so I can go back to the same person - if they don't respond I copy the general email as well in my next response , asking for a reply from a supervisor. I have only had the issue once, and once the please get your supervisor to contact me went through, they called and apologised.They have been responsive since. So bloody aggravating when they won't respond.

[Jemmy]

It's disappointing everyone else's premiums have had to suffer for it though. I wonder how much of their customer base is made up from those types of mixes? They may not have been able to just increase the premiums on 'designer' breeds as it may have alienated too large a portion of their customer base. Just a theory on why they've spread it across everyone else's premiums...

[alpha bet]

Jemmy, I suspect that the premium increases are due to the fact that there has become a higher percentage of claims from people who own policies.... nothing really to do with breeds or whether xbreed....

There is also the possibility that there are medical procedures now more affordable for people as the majority of the expense is taken up by insurance... perhaps some of these procedures would not have been offered in the past as out of peoples pricing... after all to spend $7,000 to have both hips done is not something many would have paid for in the past.... but if up to 80% is paid by the insurance then this is a completely different matter.... consider how many years premiums would be needed to cover just this one dogs bills.......

Vets are introducing new procedures which are more expensive... Personally, I have concerns that vets can be tempted to charge premium prices when they know that the insurance company can be bearing the brunt of the cost....

I predict we will see continual rises in costs as well as perhaps some breeds (and the cross breeds) being excluded - we are also likely to see exclusions from the insurances, for example some hip problems will be taken out of some if not all breeds.....

Me, I put $1500 per year into my rainy day account instead of insurance for my dogs..... have had two overseas trips on that money.... still have $3,000 in my reserve.

[Tintin Jac]

I have been trying to contqact them for weeks, left numerous messages to discuss why my dogs of the same breeds, no previous claims and different ages, but not old had a $60 difference in premiums. So far I have not recieved a call back and I am getting pissed off.

Same. My new premium increase was much much higher for our lagotto than our cocker. I tried emailing and calling several times and got sick of waiting on hold so I emailed to cancel the policies. I really had no other choice as they were not willing or able to speak to me. Really pathetic customer service. Lagotto's aren't on the is select breed list though. Maybe Petplan think they're a mixed breed...who knows as they don't want to talk

[cavNrott]

Me, I put $1500 per year into my rainy day account instead of insurance for my dogs..... have had two overseas trips on that money.... still have $3,000 in my reserve.

Where would you be if your dog needed a $7000 surgery immediately as you have just $3000 in your rainy day account?

I have pet insurance plus a pet bank account in which I deposit $200 a month. I haven't ever withdrawn from that account for any reason other than paying vet fees. When the insurance company reimburses me I deposit the money directly back into the pet account.

My dog needed urgent spinal surgery that cost $7000 all up. The money was in the pet account so I didn't have to worry about how I was going to pay for it.

Pet insurance is a good thing but we need to have the money to pay up front if our dogs need surgery. .

[denali]

As an option, Nice vets do offer payment plans.

I had, but no longer have pet insurance. SO just have the rainy day pet account. But before cancelling my policies I talked to my vet to make sure that If something were to happen and I didnt have the money upfront, they would allow me to pay it over a period of time.

Maybe worth talking to your vet about something similar :)

Also, to those relying solely on pet insurance and not having a dedicated account- you may want to make sure that it will cover ALL conditions. No use having it if you wont get anything back from an emergency surgery. Had a friend whos dog was hit by a car and wasnt covered by insurance- so they were paying premiums yearly but didnt get anything back from that. Though i dont know what cover or with whom she had it with.

[OSoSwift]

I have been trying to contqact them for weeks, left numerous messages to discuss why my dogs of the same breeds, no previous claims and different ages, but not old had a $60 difference in premiums. So far I have not recieved a call back and I am getting pissed off.

Same. My new premium increase was much much higher for our lagotto than our cocker. I tried emailing and calling several times and got sick of waiting on hold so I emailed to cancel the policies. I really had no other choice as they were not willing or able to speak to me. Really pathetic customer service. Lagotto's aren't on the is select breed list though. Maybe Petplan think they're a mixed breed...who knows as they don't want to talk

I emailed them a rather strongly worded email on Staurday. This morning I missed a call, they rang back a second time before lunch. Seems that my three pets and above discount was applied to one dog not another. They said premiums are worke dout by breeds, they are the same breed, sex and the eldest is 5.5 No claims for eitehr. OH. Eventually They came up with the above.

It annoys me that you have to get pissed off and threaten them with reporting them to someone before they get off their arses and reply!

[DobieMum]

Jemmy, I suspect that the premium increases are due to the fact that there has become a higher percentage of claims from people who own policies.... nothing really to do with breeds or whether xbreed....

There is also the possibility that there are medical procedures now more affordable for people as the majority of the expense is taken up by insurance... perhaps some of these procedures would not have been offered in the past as out of peoples pricing... after all to spend $7,000 to have both hips done is not something many would have paid for in the past.... but if up to 80% is paid by the insurance then this is a completely different matter.... consider how many years premiums would be needed to cover just this one dogs bills.......

Vets are introducing new procedures which are more expensive... Personally, I have concerns that vets can be tempted to charge premium prices when they know that the insurance company can be bearing the brunt of the cost....

I predict we will see continual rises in costs as well as perhaps some breeds (and the cross breeds) being excluded - we are also likely to see exclusions from the insurances, for example some hip problems will be taken out of some if not all breeds.....

Me, I put $1500 per year into my rainy day account instead of insurance for my dogs..... have had two overseas trips on that money.... still have $3,000 in my reserve.

This is probably the best reason, I have heard for the increases. I don't have insurance, but if you think back, the "normal family pet" would have either been left in pain or put down before. Whereas now they have pet insurance, they can afford to have Fido's hips done, so now claims have gone through the roof, so now they need to put premiums up to cover it. It makes a lot of sense, don't have to agree with it, but it makes sense.

[megan_]

Hmmmmm.

I wish Insurance companies worked out their premium based on more than just the name of a breed. For example, if your breed has known health problems and you can provide evidence your dogs parents were health tested it should mean a lowered premium. Its in their benefit to have less claims on preventable problems I would have thought.

I know there's a lot of other factors involved in health too but surely there's some way of offering an incentive to those who try and do the right thing? I realise that discounts rescue and crossbreds but hopefully there's some other way incentives could be offered there too?

This would only work if people are actually claiming for these health related issues in droves. Take TNS for example. If a dog has it, there is no treatment and it would be put down. This doesn't cost insurance companies a lot of money. So if you have proof that your pedigree BC, for example, is TNS free then it won't actually save them much money, so they won't pass savings on to you. If we want insurance companies to do detailed analytics to work out one-on-one pricing (ie a price catering yo your dog and their risk profile) then uptake will need to increase dramatically as this can cost millions to implement.

I think alpha_bet is on the money. There are so many expensive options these days and it is up to the owner to authorise the procedure. I have a 100% cover policy with a $150 payment. Of course I am going to choose the absolute premium treatment for my dogs and it isn't going to cost me any more that the more conservative treatment option. For example, Lucy hurt her neck. Vet said we can give her anti inflame and wait a couple of days or get X-rays. I chose X-rays even though the treatment plan was going to be the same.

The thing is that, under the current structure, pet insurance is ridiculously cheap . If you want Lowe cost options , you'll need to accept lower payments, more exclusions or a set of insurance company approved treatments. Paying tens-of-thousands-of-dollars because the owner wants the best treatment means higher premiums.

[Rosetta]

I don't have pet insurance any more - I don't think it is good value with all the exclusions in the fine print. As to whether the premiums are increasing because of health problems with "designer breeds" I would take that with a grain of salt. I would think the insurance companies are allocating premiums according to the dominant breed nominated. When I took out insurance there was no option to name all the possible breeds in the dog just "poodle cross" for example.

[Trisven13]

As someone who has a real interest in Basset Bleu De Gascoyne I would be bloody surprised if there are any Grands here...... They are a VERY rare breed!