Dog With Autism...?

[miss2]

Has anyone ever heard of this before? I had a behaviourist liken my new puppy to a child with Autism. I can’t find much info on google for this so just wondering if anyone has any experiences?

[VizslaMomma]

Only in a discussion with a breeder in the USA.

There is a school of thought it might exist.

Bear in mind I am speaking only as a lay person.

We were discussing a puppy's behaviour AFTER vaccination.

The breeder sincerely felt the puppy had issues after being vaccinated, not observed in its earlier life.

Purdue University wrote a paper on it. Dr Jean Dodds has alluded to issues of vaccination over her many years of practice.

Maybe look with google for canine autism and vaccination.

[VizslaMomma]

Only in a discussion with a breeder in the USA.

There is a school of thought it might exist.

Bear in mind I am speaking only as a lay person.

We were discussing a puppy's behaviour AFTER vaccination.

The breeder sincerely felt the puppy had issues after being vaccinated, not observed in its earlier life.

Purdue University wrote a paper on it. Dr Jean Dodds has alluded to issues of vaccination over her many years of practice.

Maybe look with google for canine autism and vaccination.

[VizslaMomma]

Oh sorry, gremlins.

Edited October 14, 2014 by VizslaMomma

[miss2]

Thank you, I’ll try that .... this is not something I know how to deal with.

[aliwake]

What else did the behaviourist say? Anything useful come out of the consult? What sort of behaviours made them make that comment?

Hope they were able to offer you some good advice...

Have you spoken to the breeder yet?

[Kirislin]

I've wondered if it's possible and thought if people have it why not dogs?

[persephone]

Dogs can indeed be 'wired wrong' ... what it is named, I have no idea . I have also seen puppies after a birth where they needed reviving- as they grew, they were definitely different - brain damaged due to lack of oxygen.

[miss2]

Not a huge deal of info more just Saying it’s going to take a LOT of time and she may never be a dog that likes humans... trying to work out what training strategy to use., want to build her trust but also don’t want her to get away with things, like being defiant and running away. ( this was just a puppy school but the trainer is a qualified behaviourist) She mentioned pup might be relying on our other dog too much. We are going away this weekend so I’m leaving pup with a friend with lots of dog knowledge and taking spud to my parents so they have a weekend apart to see if there is any improvement in her behaviour. I’m just waiting on pay day to have the in home consult with another lady.

I sent the breeder an email telling them everything that is currently going on and asking for information.

At puppy school I was sitting on the floor and had all the other pups playing all over me and trying to get my attention whilst Stella walked off and did her own thing. She was very happy to play with the other pups but if a person tried to touch her she ran off. Or if someone called her she would sit, look at them then walk the other way.

She wants NOTHING to do with people.

Edited to add - she will work for food. she is very smart and knows what to do. she will not concentrate on the person with the food only the food but at least its a way in

Edited October 15, 2014 by miss2

[Pjrt]

I have been a dog groomer for almost 30 years and have dealt with several dogs over the years that were cleary wired wrong, and if I had to try to describe the condition/ behavior, I have likened it to autism. These dogs just cannot focus on there immediate situation preferring to have their attention on seemingly invisible situation of to the side, and for grooming, behave like baby puppies going through their first haircut every single time they come. Even if they come every 6 weeks for years, it's back to beginner every time. Another thing i notice with them is a disconnect with their owners. The dogs i am talking about when they are given back to their owners at the end of their grooming session, instead of going silly happy jumping all over their owners, they just run around the shop with their head in the air as if their owner wasnt even there. Although it may not be formally recognized I would certainly say some dogs display autistic like symptoms/ behaviors.

[aliwake]

I'm so sorry Must be heartbreaking.

Not sure what else to say. Hope you get some response from the breeder soon too.

[persephone]

Ok . What I would suggest ...I have done this on a couple of occasions - with adults - but pups should be easier ?

For a few days - EVERY bite of food/drink of water(or use lactose free milk as an incentive) comes from a HUMAN HAND - either holding a bowl, or offering food piece by piece.

Obviously you will need to remove water bowls - and make sure Spud has access often .

My biggest success was a kelpie bitch we were given . She was described as "not responsive "/won't listen/can't work her ... . She had come from nice people . Lived mostly in a very nice run , alongside other dogs - had a warm coat for Winter - food & water available .

the trouble was- humans had no meaning for her - she had everything she needed :)

So - for a few days of intense re programming- she was confined /walked on lead/ offered food /water at regular intervals from my hand ONLY . There was nothing else available . She was loved & praised for making contact of any sort ....

We had her for about 10 yrs after that - she was so friendly and was a brilliant worker (sheep dog) - tho she did have a few foibles ;)

[Pjrt]

Can I ask what type of dog? I'm not sure if it is because I predominantly deal with small fluffy dogs, but every single one of these dogs I have dealt with over the years have been little fluffy dogs with a heavy Maltese influence, in fact 2 have been purebred Maltese.

[Simply Grand]

I've often said that if my Sheltie was a human child I'd suspect he had Aspergers (Autism spectrum). He just doesn't quite relate to the world "normally". I say it light heartedly but I do actually genuinely believe it.

[raineth]

Only in a discussion with a breeder in the USA.

There is a school of thought it might exist.

Bear in mind I am speaking only as a lay person.

We were discussing a puppy's behaviour AFTER vaccination.

The breeder sincerely felt the puppy had issues after being vaccinated, not observed in its earlier life.

Purdue University wrote a paper on it. Dr Jean Dodds has alluded to issues of vaccination over her many years of practice.

Maybe look with google for canine autism and vaccination.

It's important to remember that autism is not caused by vaccinations :)

[raineth]

Has anyone ever heard of this before? I had a behaviourist liken my new puppy to a child with Autism. I can’t find much info on google for this so just wondering if anyone has any experiences?

Miss2 sounds more like the behaviourist was just using an analogy rather than a diagnosis :)

Possibly to describe a pup that is very independent?

here is the diagnostic criteria for autism according to the DSM 5 and you can see that some of this stuff would be quite difficult to apply to a dog.

Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder 315.39 (F80.89)

Diagnostic Criteria

A. Persistent difficulties in the social use of verbal and nonverbal communication as manifested by all of the following:

1. Deficits in using communication for social purposes, such as greeting and sharing information, in a manner that is appropriate for the social context.

2. Impairment of the ability to change communication to match context or the needs of the listener, such as speaking differently in a classroom than on the playground, talking differently to a child than to an adult, and avoiding use of overly formal language.

3. Difficulties following rules for conversation and storytelling, such as taking turns in conversation, rephrasing when misunderstood, and knowing how to use verbal and nonverbal signals to regulate interaction.

4. Difficulties understanding what is not explicitly stated (e.g., making inferences) and nonliteral or ambiguous meanings of language (e.g., idioms, humor, metaphors, multiple meanings that depend on the context for interpretation).

B. The deficits result in functional limitations in effective communication, social participation, social relationships, academic achievement, or occupational performance, individually or in combination.

C. The onset of the symptoms is in the early developmental period (but deficits may not become fully manifest until social communication demands exceed limited capacities).

D. The symptoms are not attributable to another medical or neurological condition or to low abilities in the domains or word structure and grammar, and are not better explained by autism spectrum disorder, intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder), global developmental delay, or another mental disorder.

Autism Spectrum Disorder 299.00 (F84.0)

Diagnostic Criteria

A. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive, see text):

1. Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect; to failure to initiate or respond to social interactions.

2. Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, ranging, for example, from poorly integrated verbal and nonverbal communication; to abnormalities in eye contact and body language or deficits in understanding and use of gestures; to a total lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication.

3. Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers.

Specify current severity:

Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted repetitive patterns of behavior (see Table 2).

B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):

1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypies, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).

2. Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns or verbal nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, greeting rituals, need to take same route or eat food every day).

3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g, strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interest).

4. Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input or unusual interests in sensory aspects of the environment (e.g., apparent indifference to pain/temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures, excessive smelling or touching of objects, visual fascination with lights or movement).

Specify current severity:

Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior (see Table 2).

C. Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities, or may be masked by learned strategies in later life).

D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning.

E. These disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder) or global developmental delay. Intellectual disability and autism spectrum disorder frequently co-occur; to make comorbid diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder and intellectual disability, social communication should be below that expected for general developmental level.

Note: Individuals with a well-established DSM-IV diagnosis of autistic disorder, Asperger’s disorder, or pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified should be given the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder. Individuals who have marked deficits in social communication, but whose symptoms do not otherwise meet criteria for autism spectrum disorder, should be evaluated for social (pragmatic) communication disorder

- See more at: http://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/diagnosis/dsm-5-diagnostic-criteria#sthash.QTCnbyjM.dpuf

[Dame Aussie]

I don't think we can generalise with a human condition when we're talking dogs, just too different. I would recommend seeing a behaviourist and a vet to go over pup and see what they think. Good luck with it.

[The Spotted Devil]

I agree that it sounds like an analogy rather than a diagnosis.

My Dalmatian was always an independent one - he was very "meh" about us and would much rather wander off an pee on a tree than work for food or a pat so I had to learn to build value for me. If the pup works for food then I would be having him work for every scrap!

My Dally is now the most beautiful, relaxed house dog. Very attached to me. An awesome agility/obedience dog. Still fairly "meh" about strangers and still very much a silly Dalmatian at times EXCEPT he has incredible patience and sweetness around young kids, kittens, puppies and anyone who seems to be a bit vulnerable.

[YippeeGirl]

Dogs are all individuals as well, and they can have a wide spectrum of personalities even within the same breed.

I always joke that our youngest was oxygen deprived at birth as she has some very unusual behaviours. Watching her interact with other dogs it's like she cannot quite read their body language properly and this tends to land her in a lot of strife. We thought she was either deaf or blind for a while when she was younger as she seems to have some difficulty in recognising people even if they have met her before. She can also almost completely zone out. Like you will be talking to her and giving her a pat, and suddenly she will just switch off and you might as well go lavish some attention on your pet rock.

Whether dogs can be diagnosed with autism in the same sense as a human is, remains to be seen. However, I do think that there are certain dogs that are just wired differently from others.

[Pjrt]

Of the literally thousands of dogs I have handled up close and personal in the grooming environment, the dozen or so I am talking about have been quite aside from just weird or whacky behavioral or temperament quirks. I meet dogs with crazy behaviors ever day! The few I set aside that I relate to as autistic like behaviors are very very obvious and different from other dogs. It is immediately apparent that something odd is going on with them. I would want a very knowledgeable and thorough health check to rule out conditions like chiari malformation. If nothing can be medically diagnosed and the dog can live with itself ok, then I guess behaviour training and modification could help, although in the individuals I have met, it's like every day is a brand new day from the beginning and although learning can be achieved, not well retained.