Labor - Daniel Andrews Mp

[mita]

That's what happens when a COP is written by a pencil pusher who has never managed breeding animals.

And they tell us its for the dogs - what a joke.

Can only agree. The lack of the most basic knowledge is conspicuous by its absence.

[Steve]

And

In addition, the minimum of one staff member (includes any staff member including proprietor, operations manager and animal attendants)must be onsite at the business for every 100 fertile animals (or equivalent)housed in the business overnight. For example, 80 females, 5 males, 10 litters with their mothers and 5 litters without their mothers is equivalent to 100 fertile adults and requires one full-time staff member overnight.

Theoretically it could be up to 100 litters per one staff over night! = Up to 1200 counted as 100!

[Karentrimbo]

We have 1200 head of Cattle and have 4 staff members.

I believe there should be more regulation in the Agriculture industries.

1 Full-Time Staff member per 25 dogs is sufficient in my opinion. Most city people or professionals are lucky to even walk their dogs! There are minimum requirements for interaction with these dogs and as dogs are pack animals, they enjoy your company, with company.

What is exactly a puppy farmer?

I would be classed as a Puppy Farmer because I live on land that is Zoned Farming and I breed one litter of puppies per year?

[Little Gifts]

The problem is multi-faceted. If a farmer was breeding beef cattle for the meat market they would be doing everything they could to maximise the value of their product - good feed, healthy accom, worming. Handling is not really an issue given their ultimate purpose but a healthy and heavy specimen is so that money is maximised at slaughter. If a farmer/breeder was raising horses for the racing industry then to achieve maximum value they would spend money on quality feed, quality accom, medical care, training, exercise and subject it to different sensory experiences and lots of handling. That horse has to look good, run fast and handle well, which all comes back to nutrition and training, otherwise no-one would buy it or race it and it becomes a liability. But dogs sold by puppy farmers only need to be young and cute. Even on basic nutrition, minimal comfort and no human interaction it is the mother dog that does all the work in those first few weeks.

Those puppy farmers know most buyers don't buy based on health or socialisation. There is even a percentage of the population that would buy a sick and scared puppy simply because it tugs at their heartstrings. I really hate to think how little money is spent on raising a puppy before it is ready to make a puppy farmer hundreds of dollars in easy cash.

And because they have connected with that gorgeous little puppy most new owners wouldn't dream of returning it if it got sick or if it grew to be HA, DA, had anxiety or was destructive. They might take it to puppy school because that's fun. And if the novelty hadn't worn off they might also take it to more advanced training to gain some control over it.

But that cute puppy that is all wrong for the family or who they don't have the time for or their life circumstances change, well when it is an uncontrollable teenager and no longer cute and fun it might escape from the yard and end up in the pound one too many times for them to reclaim or they might decide to surrender it because they got another dog to be its friend and they like the new one much better or they moved house, had a baby, went travelling, etc, etc, etc.

It is a vicious cycle of demand and supply and humans making money while dogs suffer. So many beautiful dogs being pts every single day in this country all because there are humans who exhibit no restraint and take no responsibility for the part they play in continuing the cycle.

So Karentrimbo I would ask you honestly why do you really breed one litter of puppies a year? What is your intention for those dogs and are you successfully raising them to meet their intended purpose? Why raise puppies to give to friends when there are already hundreds of unwanted puppies out there being put to sleep? Is there something special about your dogs or the way you raise them? Or do you feel that just one litter a year doesn't have a bigger impact? These are genuine questions - I'd like an understanding of why a 'back yard breeder' (ie not a registered breeder and using the term in a very loose sense there given I appreciate you are meeting council requirements and are not producing a high volume) continue to breed their dogs?

Edited October 18, 2014 by Little Gifts

[tdierikx]

I've worked in a kennel environment - and I can tell you that only one person to attend to 25 dogs (fertile or not) adequately is a stretch... and that doesn't include litters of pups with mums - that raises the stakes to a whole extra level.

I've also been a foster carer taking on entire litters of pups - and let me tell you, when I had 14 of them here (2 litters), plus my own 4 dogs, it was a hell of a lot of hard work making sure that ALL dogs in my care got the time and attention from me that they required. And that was on top of making sure they were all clean and fed properly. Probably why I now no longer do foster care...

T.

[Karentrimbo]

The problem is multi-faceted. If a farmer was breeding beef cattle for the meat market they would be doing everything they could to maximise the value of their product - good feed, healthy accom, worming. Handling is not really an issue given their ultimate purpose but a healthy and heavy specimen is so that money is maximised at slaughter. If a farmer/breeder was raising horses for the racing industry then to achieve maximum value they would spend money on quality feed, quality accom, medical care, training, exercise and subject it to different sensory experiences and lots of handling. That horse has to look good, run fast and handle well, which all comes back to nutrition and training, otherwise no-one would buy it or race it and it becomes a liability. But dogs sold by puppy farmers only need to be young and cute. Even on basic nutrition, minimal comfort and no human interaction it is the mother dog that does all the work in those first few weeks.

Those puppy farmers know most buyers don't buy based on health or socialisation. There is even a percentage of the population that would buy a sick and scared puppy simply because it tugs at their heartstrings. I really hate to think how little money is spent on raising a puppy before it is ready to make a puppy farmer hundreds of dollars in easy cash.

And because they have connected with that gorgeous little puppy most new owners wouldn't dream of returning it if it got sick or if it grew to be HA, DA, had anxiety or was destructive. They might take it to puppy school because that's fun. And if the novelty hadn't worn off they might also take it to more advanced training to gain some control over it.

But that cute puppy that is all wrong for the family or who they don't have the time for or their life circumstances change, well when it is an uncontrollable teenager and no longer cute and fun it might escape from the yard and end up in the pound one too many times for them to reclaim or they might decide to surrender it because they got another dog to be its friend and they like the new one much better or they moved house, had a baby, went travelling, etc, etc, etc.

It is a vicious cycle of demand and supply and humans making money while dogs suffer. So many beautiful dogs being pts every single day in this country all because there are humans who exhibit no restraint and take no responsibility for the part they play in continuing the cycle.

So Karentrimbo I would ask you honestly why do you really breed one litter of puppies a year? What is your intention for those dogs and are you successfully raising them to meet their intended purpose? Why raise puppies to give to friends when there are already hundreds of unwanted puppies out there being put to sleep? Is there something special about your dogs or the way you raise them? Or do you feel that just one litter a year doesn't have a bigger impact? These are genuine questions - I'd like an understanding of why a 'back yard breeder' (ie not a registered breeder and using the term in a very loose sense there given I appreciate you are meeting council requirements and are not producing a high volume) continue to breed their dogs?

Who said I am not a Registered Breeder?

I am registered as a Domestic Animal Business as I have 15 Fertile dogs.

As I alluded in my previous posts, I have a big family and a farm the size of Melbourne so we have the capital and room.

These dogs help us work the farm and yes - We are apart of a few clubs and make friends and we are the go-to people if friends, family or someone with a connection to them want a puppy.

We have a lifetime guarantee with our puppies and if for any reason they wish to return the dog - Even if they are 10 years old, they can.

Our Beef & Wool (Sheep) Business is where we make money. I enjoy the dogs and my kids love it.

Again, I am confused… What is a Backyard Breeder?

Someone that doesn't pluck their dogs and powder them up to enter them in a show ring?

Just look at the Mature Dog section of this website to see how many Show Dogs are needing new homes because their owners think they do not meet their Showing requirements.

I think it is inhumane and sickening that someone can do that to an animal. It is like telling the Doctor after you have given birth, your kid is ugly so you want to put him/her up for adoption.

Again, read the DEPI code and I can assure you no unscrupulous breeder can unethically breed in Victoria. If they do they are acting illegally.

[Steve]

We have 1200 head of Cattle and have 4 staff members.

I believe there should be more regulation in the Agriculture industries.

1 Full-Time Staff member per 25 dogs is sufficient in my opinion. Most city people or professionals are lucky to even walk their dogs! There are minimum requirements for interaction with these dogs and as dogs are pack animals, they enjoy your company, with company.

What is exactly a puppy farmer?

I would be classed as a Puppy Farmer because I live on land that is Zoned Farming and I breed one litter of puppies per year?

A puppy farmer is someone who sees their dogs primarily as stock just as you see your cattle. Where profit is the sole or main priority.

[Steve]

The problem is multi-faceted. If a farmer was breeding beef cattle for the meat market they would be doing everything they could to maximise the value of their product - good feed, healthy accom, worming. Handling is not really an issue given their ultimate purpose but a healthy and heavy specimen is so that money is maximised at slaughter. If a farmer/breeder was raising horses for the racing industry then to achieve maximum value they would spend money on quality feed, quality accom, medical care, training, exercise and subject it to different sensory experiences and lots of handling. That horse has to look good, run fast and handle well, which all comes back to nutrition and training, otherwise no-one would buy it or race it and it becomes a liability. But dogs sold by puppy farmers only need to be young and cute. Even on basic nutrition, minimal comfort and no human interaction it is the mother dog that does all the work in those first few weeks.

Those puppy farmers know most buyers don't buy based on health or socialisation. There is even a percentage of the population that would buy a sick and scared puppy simply because it tugs at their heartstrings. I really hate to think how little money is spent on raising a puppy before it is ready to make a puppy farmer hundreds of dollars in easy cash.

And because they have connected with that gorgeous little puppy most new owners wouldn't dream of returning it if it got sick or if it grew to be HA, DA, had anxiety or was destructive. They might take it to puppy school because that's fun. And if the novelty hadn't worn off they might also take it to more advanced training to gain some control over it.

But that cute puppy that is all wrong for the family or who they don't have the time for or their life circumstances change, well when it is an uncontrollable teenager and no longer cute and fun it might escape from the yard and end up in the pound one too many times for them to reclaim or they might decide to surrender it because they got another dog to be its friend and they like the new one much better or they moved house, had a baby, went travelling, etc, etc, etc.

It is a vicious cycle of demand and supply and humans making money while dogs suffer. So many beautiful dogs being pts every single day in this country all because there are humans who exhibit no restraint and take no responsibility for the part they play in continuing the cycle.

So Karentrimbo I would ask you honestly why do you really breed one litter of puppies a year? What is your intention for those dogs and are you successfully raising them to meet their intended purpose? Why raise puppies to give to friends when there are already hundreds of unwanted puppies out there being put to sleep? Is there something special about your dogs or the way you raise them? Or do you feel that just one litter a year doesn't have a bigger impact? These are genuine questions - I'd like an understanding of why a 'back yard breeder' (ie not a registered breeder and using the term in a very loose sense there given I appreciate you are meeting council requirements and are not producing a high volume) continue to breed their dogs?

Who said I am not a Registered Breeder?

I am registered as a Domestic Animal Business as I have 15 Fertile dogs.

As I alluded in my previous posts, I have a big family and a farm the size of Melbourne so we have the capital and room.

These dogs help us work the farm and yes - We are apart of a few clubs and make friends and we are the go-to people if friends, family or someone with a connection to them want a puppy.

We have a lifetime guarantee with our puppies and if for any reason they wish to return the dog - Even if they are 10 years old, they can.

Our Beef & Wool (Sheep) Business is where we make money. I enjoy the dogs and my kids love it.

Again, I am confused… What is a Backyard Breeder?

Someone that doesn't pluck their dogs and powder them up to enter them in a show ring?

Just look at the Mature Dog section of this website to see how many Show Dogs are needing new homes because their owners think they do not meet their Showing requirements.

I think it is inhumane and sickening that someone can do that to an animal. It is like telling the Doctor after you have given birth, your kid is ugly so you want to put him/her up for adoption.

Again, read the DEPI code and I can assure you no unscrupulous breeder can unethically breed in Victoria. If they do they are acting illegally.

A backyard breeder is someone who mates dogs without testing them, without profiling a pedigree, uses a convenient stud, places them with the first person who comes along and has no interest in what happens to them next. No interest in how what they have bred impacts on the breed.

[Steve]

karentrimbo - I get some of what you are saying .I breed my working dogs to get another good working dog but Im also considering what they bring to the future of the breed and Im very fussy about where they go and what happens to them after they go to new homes. A puppy farmer sends their puppies off to market and thats that just as you do with your sheep or cattle.

[Steve]

The problem is multi-faceted. If a farmer was breeding beef cattle for the meat market they would be doing everything they could to maximise the value of their product - good feed, healthy accom, worming. Handling is not really an issue given their ultimate purpose but a healthy and heavy specimen is so that money is maximised at slaughter. If a farmer/breeder was raising horses for the racing industry then to achieve maximum value they would spend money on quality feed, quality accom, medical care, training, exercise and subject it to different sensory experiences and lots of handling. That horse has to look good, run fast and handle well, which all comes back to nutrition and training, otherwise no-one would buy it or race it and it becomes a liability. But dogs sold by puppy farmers only need to be young and cute. Even on basic nutrition, minimal comfort and no human interaction it is the mother dog that does all the work in those first few weeks.

Those puppy farmers know most buyers don't buy based on health or socialisation. There is even a percentage of the population that would buy a sick and scared puppy simply because it tugs at their heartstrings. I really hate to think how little money is spent on raising a puppy before it is ready to make a puppy farmer hundreds of dollars in easy cash.

And because they have connected with that gorgeous little puppy most new owners wouldn't dream of returning it if it got sick or if it grew to be HA, DA, had anxiety or was destructive. They might take it to puppy school because that's fun. And if the novelty hadn't worn off they might also take it to more advanced training to gain some control over it.

But that cute puppy that is all wrong for the family or who they don't have the time for or their life circumstances change, well when it is an uncontrollable teenager and no longer cute and fun it might escape from the yard and end up in the pound one too many times for them to reclaim or they might decide to surrender it because they got another dog to be its friend and they like the new one much better or they moved house, had a baby, went travelling, etc, etc, etc.

It is a vicious cycle of demand and supply and humans making money while dogs suffer. So many beautiful dogs being pts every single day in this country all because there are humans who exhibit no restraint and take no responsibility for the part they play in continuing the cycle.

So Karentrimbo I would ask you honestly why do you really breed one litter of puppies a year? What is your intention for those dogs and are you successfully raising them to meet their intended purpose? Why raise puppies to give to friends when there are already hundreds of unwanted puppies out there being put to sleep? Is there something special about your dogs or the way you raise them? Or do you feel that just one litter a year doesn't have a bigger impact? These are genuine questions - I'd like an understanding of why a 'back yard breeder' (ie not a registered breeder and using the term in a very loose sense there given I appreciate you are meeting council requirements and are not producing a high volume) continue to breed their dogs?

Who said I am not a Registered Breeder?

I am registered as a Domestic Animal Business as I have 15 Fertile dogs.

As I alluded in my previous posts, I have a big family and a farm the size of Melbourne so we have the capital and room.

These dogs help us work the farm and yes - We are apart of a few clubs and make friends and we are the go-to people if friends, family or someone with a connection to them want a puppy.

We have a lifetime guarantee with our puppies and if for any reason they wish to return the dog - Even if they are 10 years old, they can.

Our Beef & Wool (Sheep) Business is where we make money. I enjoy the dogs and my kids love it.

Again, I am confused… What is a Backyard Breeder?

Someone that doesn't pluck their dogs and powder them up to enter them in a show ring?

Just look at the Mature Dog section of this website to see how many Show Dogs are needing new homes because their owners think they do not meet their Showing requirements.

I think it is inhumane and sickening that someone can do that to an animal. It is like telling the Doctor after you have given birth, your kid is ugly so you want to put him/her up for adoption.

Again, read the DEPI code and I can assure you no unscrupulous breeder can unethically breed in Victoria. If they do they are acting illegally.

You are a domestic animal business but do you register your dog's birth and record pedigrees with a registry? do you provide a registered pedigree with your puppies? Do you do any genetic tests? To you score for anything prior to breeding them?

[mita]

We have 1200 head of Cattle and have 4 staff members.

I believe there should be more regulation in the Agriculture industries.

1 Full-Time Staff member per 25 dogs is sufficient in my opinion. Most city people or professionals are lucky to even walk their dogs! There are minimum requirements for interaction with these dogs and as dogs are pack animals, they enjoy your company, with company.

What is exactly a puppy farmer?

I would be classed as a Puppy Farmer because I live on land that is Zoned Farming and I breed one litter of puppies per year?

You still haven't answered my question.... in your concentration only about numbers. What is wanted in the behavioral outcomes of the dogs and puppies? And what evidence is there re the best way to achieve those outcomes?

Yes.... evidence... not opinion. The same evidence, incidentally that sees both military puppies & police puppies in Qld going out to live in ordinary homes, living ordinary companion dog lives until approaching 12 months, when their serious training starts. And even when graduated, the police dogs live in-home alongside their handler & his family.

If you addressed this issue.... & then looked at the factors involved in raising & keeping dogs to promote this development... you would know what a puppy farmer is by the absence of those factors.

Again, you're stuck only on numbers... & now the zoning of land. None of which are the core essentials in raising & keeping dogs. The case you're arguing is about dogs working in a pastoral setting ... so set out clearly what factors are needed to get the behavioral outcomes you want.

Edited October 19, 2014 by mita

[Little Gifts]

A back yard breeder for me is someone who breeds dogs to sell and those dogs are not registered pedigrees - there is no public record of their lineage. They may not breed many litters so differ from a puppy farmer in that sense but they aren't breeding to better the breed either. And these are planned or hoped for litters, not oops litters because someone didn't keep their bitch contained adequately. The 'back yard' could be a suburban property or a rural one and it could have adequate breeding facilities or none and it could be council approved or not. Approving the facilities (in my eyes) does not equate to a quality end product (dog) because raising a sound dog requires more than good housing.

I know you have mentioned you meet council requirements but I didn't read anywhere that you were a registered breeder of a specific breed. Apologies if I have overlooked this. I am also aware that some good working dogs are not coming from registered breeders and dogs and I'd be interested in hearing more about that if that is your situation. Again, genuine questions to help me understand another side of things as I can see you are quite passionate about what you are doing and how you are doing it.

I know a lot of working dogs end up in rescue too for a variety of reasons and if they are genuine working dogs then they need to go to the right homes to fulfil their purpose, which limits their adoption options. It probably also limits their fostering options.

In a perfect world I'd like to see a re-balance of the numbers so less unwanted dogs of any breed exist. I don't think that will change until breeding and buying happens on a more conscious level.

[mita]

[Just look at the Mature Dog section of this website to see how many Show Dogs are needing new homes because their owners think they do not meet their Showing requirements.

I think it is inhumane and sickening that someone can do that to an animal. It is like telling the Doctor after you have given birth, your kid is ugly so you want to put him/her up for adoption.

You've formed a personal opinion.... without any evidence... & then turned your opinion into a generalization.

The mature show dogs on the Dogzonline site are being retired to pet homes for a variety of reasons. Light years away from your comparison with rejecting 'ugly' kids.

I've always had retired showdogs for pets... that I've got from registered breeders whose breeding/raising style fits the evidence of how companion dogs should best be raised & kept. Far from being failures.... they've all been Aus Champions. Their breeders believe that once they've got their championships & had one or two litters, then they deserve to be in a loving pet home for the rest of their lives. And who gives a damn, anyway, if a dog 'fails' conformation standards in a show ring. When it's other factors that are essential to a well-socialized dog.

As an example, only yesterday, the original breeder of one my former showgirls, who came to Australia from Sweden, contacted me, from Sweden ... interested to know how her Annie is faring. That breeder happens to have one of the most prominent breed kennels in northern Europe.... & her dog won Best of Breed at prestigious Crufts in London.

She believes that she breeds first for good temperament & health and then best match with conformation. And the end goal is that her puppies & dogs will enjoy being in pet homes the rest of their lives. I wouldn't have a clue how many dogs this breeder has... but she remembers her puppy that went to far away Australia years ago.

She's twigged & lives out the best ways to keep/raise companion dogs. The proof is in the dogs she produces. Our little Swedish-Australian dog came, from the importing Australian breeder, beautifully socialised & with a glorious temperament. And she's as healthy as a small horse.

Edited October 19, 2014 by mita

[Sheridan]

Just look at the Mature Dog section of this website to see how many Show Dogs are needing new homes because their owners think they do not meet their Showing requirements.

I think it is inhumane and sickening that someone can do that to an animal. It is like telling the Doctor after you have given birth, your kid is ugly so you want to put him/her up for adoption.

Again, read the DEPI code and I can assure you no unscrupulous breeder can unethically breed in Victoria. If they do they are acting illegally.

I don't often get time to post on DOL but ...

Don't be ridiculous. Following your 'thought process', my little girl should have stayed with her previous owner, unhappy and at the bottom of a pack instead of being treated like a spoiled princess at my place. And my beloved boy should have been kenneled for months on end or more when his breeder had to go overseas on business instead of being treated like a king at my place because you think dogs have to stay with their breeders.

You know nothing of particular circumstances of breeders or why they decide to rehome. Utterly ignorant post.

[Steve]

[Karentrimbo]

Excuse me, there is a breeder that has two mature dogs for sale because they do not meet her requirements and she has just announced two litters of puppies. This is so cruel and wrong.

AGAIN, if you want to discuss the VICTORIAN DEPI CODE for DOG breeding.

Requirements are they require to be microchipped, tested, vet checked etc etc etc etc

You need to document absolutely everything and keep these documents for 7 years. One hard copy and one copy off site

[Karentrimbo]

We have 1200 head of Cattle and have 4 staff members.

I believe there should be more regulation in the Agriculture industries.

1 Full-Time Staff member per 25 dogs is sufficient in my opinion. Most city people or professionals are lucky to even walk their dogs! There are minimum requirements for interaction with these dogs and as dogs are pack animals, they enjoy your company, with company.

What is exactly a puppy farmer?

I would be classed as a Puppy Farmer because I live on land that is Zoned Farming and I breed one litter of puppies per year?

A puppy farmer is someone who sees their dogs primarily as stock just as you see your cattle. Where profit is the sole or main priority.

Is there a Universal definition to

Puppy Farm

AND / OR

Backyard Breeder?

[Karentrimbo]

The problem is multi-faceted. If a farmer was breeding beef cattle for the meat market they would be doing everything they could to maximise the value of their product - good feed, healthy accom, worming. Handling is not really an issue given their ultimate purpose but a healthy and heavy specimen is so that money is maximised at slaughter. If a farmer/breeder was raising horses for the racing industry then to achieve maximum value they would spend money on quality feed, quality accom, medical care, training, exercise and subject it to different sensory experiences and lots of handling. That horse has to look good, run fast and handle well, which all comes back to nutrition and training, otherwise no-one would buy it or race it and it becomes a liability. But dogs sold by puppy farmers only need to be young and cute. Even on basic nutrition, minimal comfort and no human interaction it is the mother dog that does all the work in those first few weeks.

Those puppy farmers know most buyers don't buy based on health or socialisation. There is even a percentage of the population that would buy a sick and scared puppy simply because it tugs at their heartstrings. I really hate to think how little money is spent on raising a puppy before it is ready to make a puppy farmer hundreds of dollars in easy cash.

And because they have connected with that gorgeous little puppy most new owners wouldn't dream of returning it if it got sick or if it grew to be HA, DA, had anxiety or was destructive. They might take it to puppy school because that's fun. And if the novelty hadn't worn off they might also take it to more advanced training to gain some control over it.

But that cute puppy that is all wrong for the family or who they don't have the time for or their life circumstances change, well when it is an uncontrollable teenager and no longer cute and fun it might escape from the yard and end up in the pound one too many times for them to reclaim or they might decide to surrender it because they got another dog to be its friend and they like the new one much better or they moved house, had a baby, went travelling, etc, etc, etc.

It is a vicious cycle of demand and supply and humans making money while dogs suffer. So many beautiful dogs being pts every single day in this country all because there are humans who exhibit no restraint and take no responsibility for the part they play in continuing the cycle.

So Karentrimbo I would ask you honestly why do you really breed one litter of puppies a year? What is your intention for those dogs and are you successfully raising them to meet their intended purpose? Why raise puppies to give to friends when there are already hundreds of unwanted puppies out there being put to sleep? Is there something special about your dogs or the way you raise them? Or do you feel that just one litter a year doesn't have a bigger impact? These are genuine questions - I'd like an understanding of why a 'back yard breeder' (ie not a registered breeder and using the term in a very loose sense there given I appreciate you are meeting council requirements and are not producing a high volume) continue to breed their dogs?

Border Collies were meant for farm work, not for dog showing.

Not having a go at anyone, but we use these dogs for that very purpose and trade our dogs to friends who are part of a Agricultural Society. I am the go-to person for the Border Collies.

[Karentrimbo]

The problem is multi-faceted. If a farmer was breeding beef cattle for the meat market they would be doing everything they could to maximise the value of their product - good feed, healthy accom, worming. Handling is not really an issue given their ultimate purpose but a healthy and heavy specimen is so that money is maximised at slaughter. If a farmer/breeder was raising horses for the racing industry then to achieve maximum value they would spend money on quality feed, quality accom, medical care, training, exercise and subject it to different sensory experiences and lots of handling. That horse has to look good, run fast and handle well, which all comes back to nutrition and training, otherwise no-one would buy it or race it and it becomes a liability. But dogs sold by puppy farmers only need to be young and cute. Even on basic nutrition, minimal comfort and no human interaction it is the mother dog that does all the work in those first few weeks.

Those puppy farmers know most buyers don't buy based on health or socialisation. There is even a percentage of the population that would buy a sick and scared puppy simply because it tugs at their heartstrings. I really hate to think how little money is spent on raising a puppy before it is ready to make a puppy farmer hundreds of dollars in easy cash.

And because they have connected with that gorgeous little puppy most new owners wouldn't dream of returning it if it got sick or if it grew to be HA, DA, had anxiety or was destructive. They might take it to puppy school because that's fun. And if the novelty hadn't worn off they might also take it to more advanced training to gain some control over it.

But that cute puppy that is all wrong for the family or who they don't have the time for or their life circumstances change, well when it is an uncontrollable teenager and no longer cute and fun it might escape from the yard and end up in the pound one too many times for them to reclaim or they might decide to surrender it because they got another dog to be its friend and they like the new one much better or they moved house, had a baby, went travelling, etc, etc, etc.

It is a vicious cycle of demand and supply and humans making money while dogs suffer. So many beautiful dogs being pts every single day in this country all because there are humans who exhibit no restraint and take no responsibility for the part they play in continuing the cycle.

So Karentrimbo I would ask you honestly why do you really breed one litter of puppies a year? What is your intention for those dogs and are you successfully raising them to meet their intended purpose? Why raise puppies to give to friends when there are already hundreds of unwanted puppies out there being put to sleep? Is there something special about your dogs or the way you raise them? Or do you feel that just one litter a year doesn't have a bigger impact? These are genuine questions - I'd like an understanding of why a 'back yard breeder' (ie not a registered breeder and using the term in a very loose sense there given I appreciate you are meeting council requirements and are not producing a high volume) continue to breed their dogs?

Yes - people breed

Greyhounds for profit (Victorian profit from Greyhound racing is approximately $350 million per year)

20,000 jobs

————————

Horse racing - 3 billion dollar plus economy to Victoria

———

Do we ban everything?

I think the best thing to do is not ban things, just invest more money into more stringent regulations.

There are not enough animal welfare officers on the ground. Where the hell does all the donor money go?

[Karentrimbo]

I cant imagine how anyone person could want to own more than 10 fertile dogs either but the fact is clearly some do and some even have what I believe to be good reason - someone owning 10 chis is rather different to someone owning 10 staffies.

Fertile or not Fertile - Dogs are hard work