Labor - Daniel Andrews Mp

[Karentrimbo]

Hi all,

I welcome the new laws brought in by The Liberal Party (The Strongest Domestic Animal cruelty laws/legislation in the World)

Now Daniel Andrews has announced he is going to restrict each premises to 10 Fertile Females by 2020.

I believe the hype around every person that owns dogs and breed them are puppy farmers? I live on a farm and I have 15 dogs. The reason why I have so many dogs is because I have a big family and we all have 2 dogs each. We live on a fertile 1200 acre farm in Victoria and breed working Border Collies that are welcome to come and go from our home as they please. We are a registered Domestic Animal Business and Council love our place and call it dog heaven. We don't make money, we sell for friends and family and sell any that we cannot home. We follow all guidelines and look after our dogs very well.

I think all Pedigree Dog owners/breeders/exhibitors have shot themselves in the foot! You got what you wanted…. Most of my Pedigree dog-breeder friends have 10 dogs plus…. They are retired so they have the time to dedicate to their pets.

"By 2020, the maximum number of breeding dogs in any business will be 10 dogs. This effectively puts this squalid industry out of business," Mr Andrews said.

LINK to article: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-04/puppy-farms3a-victorian-opposition-announces-further-crackdown/5790676

I think you should seriously think who you should be voting for in Novembers election… I know who I will be voting for… Liberal.

Thank you and take care all.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Karentrimbo

[Jed]

Thanks for your post Karentrimbo. Welcome to the forum

You said

I think all Pedigree Dog owners/breeders/exhibitors have shot themselves in the foot! You got what you wanted

May I ask please what it is you believed pedigree dog owners/breeders/exhibitors wanted?

[Steve]

So what does he think he is going to do?

Just tell everyone who has followed the law and put tens of thousands of dollars into their properties to comply with their stupid laws, in the case of commercial breeders they have invested hundreds of thousands – tough titties, your properties have just massively dropped in value, and you can no longer, pursue your hobby or earn your living,even though you have done it all by the book? They have been inspected, and comply with all of the regs and laws and had their approval to operate – but he is promising that he will Remove their development approvals and licenses and have everyone in Victoria who breeds a puppy have only 10 fertile dogs and miraculously the demand for puppies will simply disappear? Miraculously every dog in Victoria which is being bred will be treated as they should be according to their crap laws and owners will all do the right thing and never have the desire or need to surrender their dogs? But wait - notice there is no talk of banning sales of live animals in pet shops – just making sure they are doing the right thing. There is a hell of a lot of breeders in Victoria including registered breeders who own more than 10 dogs who don't own hundreds. Just forget about property laws, and consumer laws and make the owning of fertile dogs which is a legal activity as long as you follow regulations illegal if you have more than 10 ? Does anyone really believe this? The animal rights loonies will believe he will/can do it and he'll get their votes.

Hope someone asks him how he plans to reach this goal –

Dogs may not be raised for food but expecting that its possible to restrict people to only being able to own 10 fertile dogs on their own properties according to codes for breeding dogs is akin to expecting that by 2020 people and farmers will be restricted to 10 chickens or 10 pigs whether they follow regulations for their industry or not because we don't want factory farming in these animals either.

He may be able to make it harder but stopping anyone owning and breeding more than 10 fertile dogs no matter what – not a chance.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Steve

[Christina]

We have recent proposals submitted, but not passed, in SA recently too.

I do wish that both the politicians & people who support their proposals would look at the reality & feasibility in practical & realistic terms of how this will improve welfare for animals instead of coming up with things that are completely useless.

The one issue they will not budge on that would make so much impact is banning pet shop sales.

Although animal welfare or lack of it is a problem & puppy farming is also a problem we do already have laws that could be implemented more efficiently.

Meanwhile here in SA it seems to be becoming more of a crime & getting more attention to do something out of line, even in a small way,with dogs than it does to leave a child with a drug addicted & cruel mother with a paedophile boyfriend until the child is killed. When they knew all about it for many years.

The Hon Michelle Lensink should be looking at the way the government protects, or fails to protect is more like it, children before she starts trying to gain popularity through animals & emotions. Even when taken into government care children are often still at risk of abuse. While obviously animal welfare is important we have many laws so why is time & money being wasted on this issue constantly ?

[Steve]

We have recent proposals submitted, but not passed, in SA recently too.

I do wish that both the politicians & people who support their proposals would look at the reality & feasibility in practical & realistic terms of how this will improve welfare for animals instead of coming up with things that are completely useless.

The one issue they will not budge on that would make so much impact is banning pet shop sales.

Although animal welfare or lack of it is a problem & puppy farming is also a problem we do already have laws that could be implemented more efficiently.

Meanwhile here in SA it seems to be becoming more of a crime & getting more attention to do something out of line, even in a small way,with dogs than it does to leave a child with a drug addicted & cruel mother with a paedophile boyfriend until the child is killed. When they knew all about it for many years.

The Hon Michelle Lensink should be looking at the way the government protects, or fails to protect is more like it, children before she starts trying to gain popularity through animals & emotions. Even when taken into government care children are often still at risk of abuse. While obviously animal welfare is important we have many laws so why is time & money being wasted on this issue constantly ?

because the radicals have drummed up support and its about votes.

[hankdog]

I know little of this issue but does anyone kniw why they won't ban puppy sales from pet shops?

It would seem that a puppy farmer could still pump out two litters per bitch a year and still sell 200 odd puppies a year. Just more work for the bitches I suppose.

[sheena]

We don't make money, we sell for friends and family and sell any that we cannot home.

You say you sell what you can't find homes for.....I would have thought that with any good breeder finding the "right" home would be paramount. What you are saying is that you sell to anybody who comes up with the money regardless of where they are going. I would bet, that a LOT of your dogs end up in places like "Working Dog Rescue" along with the hundreds of other working dog litters that are bred for one of two pups & the rest are discarded. Do you know the difference between an ANKC Registered breeder, who ticks all the boxes, & a puppy farmer ???

[BarbedWire]

We don't make money, we sell for friends and family and sell any that we cannot home.

You say you sell what you can't find homes for.....I would have thought that with any good breeder finding the "right" home would be paramount. What you are saying is that you sell to anybody who comes up with the money regardless of where they are going. I would bet, that a LOT of your dogs end up in places like "Working Dog Rescue" along with the hundreds of other working dog litters that are bred for one of two pups & the rest are discarded. Do you know the difference between an ANKC Registered breeder, who ticks all the boxes, & a puppy farmer ???

In response to the quote from the OP, I hope you also realise that reputable breeders take back any dogs they have bred if the dogs find themselves in need, such as in a pound. If your fifteen bitches had one litter each year of five dogs that would make 75 pups a year. It's a lot of pups to be responsible for. Not saying that you are not a responsible breeder, just wondering that's all.

[Christina]

I know little of this issue but does anyone kniw why they won't ban puppy sales from pet shops?

It would seem that a puppy farmer could still pump out two litters per bitch a year and still sell 200 odd puppies a year. Just more work for the bitches I suppose.

Because it is too difficult legally. The pet industry association has its own lawyers, lots of money & a lot of members & would challenge this in court.

Its to do with free trade as kittens & puppies are classed as goods or property in law & sales but not totally classed that way as in welfare, which is contradictory in itself.

[sheena]

We don't make money, we sell for friends and family and sell any that we cannot home.

You say you sell what you can't find homes for.....I would have thought that with any good breeder finding the "right" home would be paramount. What you are saying is that you sell to anybody who comes up with the money regardless of where they are going. I would bet, that a LOT of your dogs end up in places like "Working Dog Rescue" along with the hundreds of other working dog litters that are bred for one of two pups & the rest are discarded. Do you know the difference between an ANKC Registered breeder, who ticks all the boxes, & a puppy farmer ???

In response to the quote from the OP, I hope you also realise that reputable breeders take back any dogs they have bred if the dogs find themselves in need, such as in a pound. If your fifteen bitches had one litter each year of five dogs that would make 75 pups a year. It's a lot of pups to be responsible for. Not saying that you are not a responsible breeder, just wondering that's all.

Yes...& that's only if they have average of 5 pups per litter. That's a lot of loving homes to find. What happens to the ones that you can't find suitable & loving homes for A good breeder will go out of their way to find the "right" homes for their pups. Do you health & genetic test your breeding stock?????.....

[Leah82]

I'm confused, is the proposed limit 10 breeding dogs or 10 fertile females. Breeding dogs would include both entire bitches and dogs.

Either way I don't think it's a particularly harsh limit, Ethical and registered breeders aren't in it to make money and you can always de-sex any dogs that are not part of your breeding program.

Unfortunately when you are trying to stop practices like puppy farms there are always going to be a few good breeders caught in the cross hairs. You have to ask yourself, would you rather reduce your non-profitable breeding program or continue to allow puppy farms to use and abuse dogs and produce unsound and unstable litter after litter.

[sheena]

I'm confused, is the proposed limit 10 breeding dogs or 10 fertile females. Breeding dogs would include both entire bitches and dogs.

Either way I don't think it's a particularly harsh limit, Ethical and registered breeders aren't in it to make money and you can always de-sex any dogs that are not part of your breeding program.

Unfortunately when you are trying to stop practices like puppy farms there are always going to be a few good breeders caught in the cross hairs. You have to ask yourself, would you rather reduce your non-profitable breeding program or continue to allow puppy farms to use and abuse dogs and produce unsound and unstable litter after litter.

10 bitches & limit the number of litters a bitch can have to 5. I wonder how they are going to police that with unregistered backyard bogans The puppy farmers don't register their pups anyway....so how will they know if a particular unregistered bitch has had more than five litters

Edited October 8, 2014 by sheena

[Steve]

We don't make money, we sell for friends and family and sell any that we cannot home.

You say you sell what you can't find homes for.....I would have thought that with any good breeder finding the "right" home would be paramount. What you are saying is that you sell to anybody who comes up with the money regardless of where they are going. I would bet, that a LOT of your dogs end up in places like "Working Dog Rescue" along with the hundreds of other working dog litters that are bred for one of two pups & the rest are discarded. Do you know the difference between an ANKC Registered breeder, who ticks all the boxes, & a puppy farmer ???

Gee I didnt get that she said she would just sell pups to anyone that just comes along - did I miss it?

[Steve]

I'm confused, is the proposed limit 10 breeding dogs or 10 fertile females. Breeding dogs would include both entire bitches and dogs.

Either way I don't think it's a particularly harsh limit, Ethical and registered breeders aren't in it to make money and you can always de-sex any dogs that are not part of your breeding program.

Unfortunately when you are trying to stop practices like puppy farms there are always going to be a few good breeders caught in the cross hairs. You have to ask yourself, would you rather reduce your non-profitable breeding program or continue to allow puppy farms to use and abuse dogs and produce unsound and unstable litter after litter.

I assume what he is talking about is what is already in regarding no more than 10 fertile bitches if you are a registered breeder without further compliance requirements.

[Steve]

I'm confused, is the proposed limit 10 breeding dogs or 10 fertile females. Breeding dogs would include both entire bitches and dogs.

Either way I don't think it's a particularly harsh limit, Ethical and registered breeders aren't in it to make money and you can always de-sex any dogs that are not part of your breeding program.

Unfortunately when you are trying to stop practices like puppy farms there are always going to be a few good breeders caught in the cross hairs. You have to ask yourself, would you rather reduce your non-profitable breeding program or continue to allow puppy farms to use and abuse dogs and produce unsound and unstable litter after litter.

10 bitches & limit the number of litters a bitch can have to 5. I wonder how they are going to police that with unregistered backyard bogans The puppy farmers don't register their pups anyway....so how will they know if a particular unregistered bitch has had more than five litters

its all tied up with council - assuming someone is within the law and registers their dogs and microchips them etc. In victoria if you are not Vicdogs you have to have a licence for more than 3 dogs now to be able to breed them but it will only affect those doing the right thing as usual.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Steve

[Steve]

This week Ive had the opportunity to chat with someone who is a puppy farmer - only breeds first cross dogs and un papered purebreds for nothing else but the money. nothing is ever advertised and they are flown out with all expenses paid to a pet shop in WA.

She owns 85 dogs - when you listen to what they do to dodge the system makes you realise what is really going on.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Steve

[Jed]

I know little of this issue but does anyone kniw why they won't ban puppy sales from pet shops?

It would seem that a puppy farmer could still pump out two litters per bitch a year and still sell 200 odd puppies a year. Just more work for the bitches I suppose.

I believe it is because PIAA (voluntary body for the pet industry which a lot of pet shops are members of) have a large $$ base and have done lots of lobbying - "loss of jobs blah blah", so have talked away any chance of any polly putting this one up.

Money rules!!

And of course the sale of pups in pet shops should be banned.

Government needs to have it belted into their heads that dogs are not agricultural animals, we do not eat them, and we should not farm them

The issue is not important to pollies, it is all driven by lobby groups, and it is not a vote getter, so whoever shouts loudest gets their way.

[Steve]

And the ANKC is pro pet shops - they stood against calls for bans when Clover Moore was pushing the ticket.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Steve

[Little Gifts]

This week Ive had the opportunity to chat with someone who is a puppy farmer - only breeds first cross dogs and un papered purebreds for nothing else but the money. nothing is ever advertised and they are flown out with all expenses paid to a pet shop in WA.

She owns 85 dogs - when you listen to what they do to dodge the system makes you realise what is really going on.

That would've been a very enlightening conversation. Wish I could've been a fly on the wall!

[Karentrimbo]

Thanks for your post Karentrimbo. Welcome to the forum

You said

I think all Pedigree Dog owners/breeders/exhibitors have shot themselves in the foot! You got what you wanted

May I ask please what it is you believed pedigree dog owners/breeders/exhibitors wanted?

What I mean is Pedigree Dog Breeders entered into submissions to have Puppy Farms abolished… Little did they know they would end up being legislated highly themselves, as all canine breeds are treated the same. Regardless is they are pure bred or cross bred.