Thoughts On Choosing A Breeder

[RuralPug]

Reading another thread, where a person asking about getting a pure breed pup wanted to know where they could go and meet one was directed to a dog show with an invitation to meet a breeder of that breed, I was struck by the reply but didn't want to hijack that thread.

The reply was something along the lines of they hadn't thought about meeting a show breeder, they didn't want to show but just wanted an example that they knew was pure.

I have come across that attitude before. It is not anti-show breeder, it is just the assumption that show dogs are some sort of exotic speciality and not suited to being pets. If only they knew - most of them are household pets!

DOL forum members seem to be a fairly wide spread, and I just wondered if any of you had ever had the same thoughts or knew others that had had them? I grew up a fourth generation breeder/exhibitor so I really never had a chance to think that way at all.

This thread is not meant to be about the merits of mixed breed vs purebred, just about the way the general public think about getting a dog from a show breeder. By show breeder, I mean a breeder who frequently exhibits, although I am quite aware that there are some excellent breeders out there that never themselves exhibit their dogs.

[dotdashdot]

I work in a pet supply store, and I would agree that a lot of people think that a show dog is like a piece of china that sits on a shelf. I show myself, so I get a great opportunity to change people's minds (and right now my show dog is chewing her new fave toy on my bed).

Just tonight I was thinking that a blog called "the secret life of a showdog" would be funny, showing them doing NORMAL things with a show here and there. Then again, that's basically my FB....99% of that is dog related :laugh:

I was about 10 when I found out about the show world,when we got our labrador. Wasn't until 4 years ago when I found DOL though, that I really learnt the difference between a reg breeder and a BYB.

[julesluvscavs]

Its how we got our first Cavalier. He was being shown but not very successfully. He hated it. We had gone to a show to meet some breeders and we ended up falling in love with one of their young show dogs! He was up for sale to the right person. The decision wasn't made there and then of course ;-)

We have another ex show dog from that same breeder (her foundation bitch- Renae, who is now 12 ) but that came about from knowing her (the breeder) from years earlier from that show where we met her!

Miah's breeder doesn't show much these days (and I don't think she was ever fully into it) but is heavily involved with the SA Cavalier Club, which is where we met her (at pet owner fun days).

Apart from trying our best to get a reputable and ethical one, there are certain traits my husband and I look for in choosing a breeder. They don't have to show their dogs, its just thats how it worked out for our first two :)

Edited October 5, 2014 by Jules❤3Cavs

[Cleo's Corgwyn]

yep, I specifically entered my boy in neuter class, while I was showing my young girl this weekend, as he just loooooves people, and I knew there would be a few wandering around over the weekend while there were other things happening at the showground. I sit him on my lap while I laze in a chair, and I always say that people are welcome to say hi to them as they walk past, if they look interested. I know some breeders with more dogs, or harder to groom breeds are busy, and I figure its my little bit of PR for the purebreed community. He'll climb into laps, or roll over for belly rubs, and we often laugh at what a difficult life our show dogs lead!

Mine are performance dogs first and foremost, so if people are interested, I tell them about what sport we compete in, and they like to show off tricks as well.

I'm also a second generation breed exhibitor (completely different breed to what my parents had) and I'm only showing while my current dogs are young and in training (or until my young bitch finishes her title) but we like to make it fun while we can.

[Dame Aussie]

Yes, until I got Lili I would have thought that way to an extent. I'm still not interested in showing but obviously I know now that most are family pets.

Re people's understanding, I do think sometimes that breeders do this to themselves by seeming a bit out of reach to the average Joe. I'm only referring to some breeders of course, but things like not getting back to people when they enquire, being obscure about the cost of a puppy/dog and setting rules relating to how much the person works/whether they have children etc etc can all turn people off, I have experienced a few of these issues myself.

I know breeders can set whatever demands they like and fully support that, this is not posted to have a dig. I work in a shelter and often hear people complaining about how hard it is to get a dog from both rescue and breeders and I think its a mixture of preconceived ideas they may have, (which are usually incorrect) and experiences they've had which reinforce the idea that only certain people can get purebred/show dogs.

I also notice a lot of people think show dogs are just pretty, poncey looking dogs, I don't think they connect showing with the function of dogs, just funny haircuts etc :laugh:

Edited October 5, 2014 by Dame Aussie

[kelpiecuddles]

I think to some extent it depends on the breed too. If you look at something like labradors or staffies that are dime a dozen backyard bred people seem to see a difference between pet dogs and show dogs but when I'm out and about with my basset who is 'only' a pet people always assume she came from a good breeder as she seems like 'that kind of breed'.

[Dame Aussie]

Yes kc, I agree, breeds that aren't as common are usually considered more likely to be purebred.

A little OT but I had a customer asking me about the signs of a dodgy breeder/puppy farm the other day. I was really glad that the need to be careful is being communicated, I gave as much advice as possible and of course directed them to DOL to check out breeders :laugh:

[suziwong66]

Even though i've had ANKC registered dogs for the past 18 years, it was only in more recent years that I really got to understand breed conformation standards and their place in showing and subsequently in breeding. I knew there were show dogs but i didn't understand why people showed. I even remember going to a few shows when i was on the lookout for my first lab nearly two decades ago, but i came away none the wiser

Edited October 5, 2014 by suziwong66

[Rascalmyshadow]

Being a groomer I have asked many customers why they chose a xbreed rather than a purebred, most of the replies are because they don't want a show dog.

I myself have had byb dogs, pedigrees and rescues. At the moment I have one of each.

I originally didn't go to a registered breeder because I wanted a poodle with a full tail (before docking was illegal) and every registered breeder I spoke to wasn't interested in keeping me a puppy with a tail.

[hankdog]

I thought showing dogs was the same as obedience showing or agility. Something you could do with a dog but I didn't think it was related to being a breeder. Not where I would have thought to start looking for a purebred puppy.

I wouldn't care if I got a dog who came from champions. I get recycled dogs because I don't have a specific breed preference. If I like a dog I just like it. OH is a bulldog fan so that's why we have Jake.

[Guest crazydoglady99]

oh me too hankdog!

[JulesP]

Someone was giving me crap for having working dogs on a suburban block. I said they were actually show dog bred and she shut up

[espinay2]

There is a facebook page called 'The secret life of showdogs' but it isn't overly active. My favourite though is 'National Purebred Dog Day' which is doing a great job promoting purebred dogs. A well run page or blog about the 'other life' of show dogs would be good I think.

One of the things I make sure I do on my website is have photos not just of the dogs at shows, but also doing lots of other things too - whether it is cuddling on the bed, interacting with children or elderly (or us!) or at football games, public events, with chickens, playing in the paddock, and simply doing 'everyday stuff'. It shows there is more to them than dog shows and also shows their temperament and versatility. I loved this when I saw it on a friends website (with a different breed) so was sure to do it on my own. I find people looking at the page love to see it and a lot of the pet enquiries I get, people specifically mention how much they loved seeing the dogs doing different things as it really gave them a feel for what they are like. A lot say they chose to contact me because of it.

[H@wkeye!]

I'm guess the OP is referring to me here. Put it simply, i wanted to introduce collies to my partner so we could be sure that a collie is in fact the right dog for us. I already know this, as i've had one before, but she hasn't. I think they referred us to the dog show, as that's where we could see said dogs, even if they are show dogs. We are not after a show dog, but there we may be able to find a breeder, and perhaps a non-show dog. THe long and the short about it, is we just want an example of the dog, to be sure about it. Ideally that would just be someone in a park with that specific dog type. Problem is, we've never encountered one.

[Dory the Doted One]

I'm guess the OP is referring to me here. Put it simply, i wanted to introduce collies to my partner so we could be sure that a collie is in fact the right dog for us. I already know this, as i've had one before, but she hasn't. I think they referred us to the dog show, as that's where we could see said dogs, even if they are show dogs. We are not after a show dog, but there we may be able to find a breeder, and perhaps a non-show dog. THe long and the short about it, is we just want an example of the dog, to be sure about it. Ideally that would just be someone in a park with that specific dog type. Problem is, we've never encountered one.

Hawkeye, I think it is more that you inspired a thread, than a judgement on your question.

[Little Gifts]

I may have been lucky in that I grew up in a family who liked the look of certain breeds of dog and cat and the only place you could buy them when I was a kid was from a breeder. But they were only ever treated as pets. Same with when we had our big farm - dad had the money to buy a certain quality of stock and did the same with our farm dogs. Ours were sourced from a good line of working dogs (not sure if they were papered though). We also took in strays and bitsas that needed homes, but anything we bought was always from a known breeder. Once I hit independence all my pets have been rescue and that has kind of filtered through to the rest of my family now.

I do have a couple of breeds on my bucket list that I might one day research and purchase from a good breeder but in the interim there are so many amazing rescue dogs out there that I will probably keep my house full of furry critters from that avenue. But if a friend or acquaintance is talking of getting a certain breed of dog I would readily encourage them to find a good breeder because I think so many people misunderstand why registered breeders even exist.

You wouldn't buy a Louis Vitton handbag at Crazy Clark's and you'd certainly be dubious of paying thousands of dollars for it if you did see one there, so I really wish we could get the word through to people about pet shops. In the case of exorbitantly priced pet shop puppies you don't get what you pay for. But you do get a 'sucker' stamp for your forehead.

[RuralPug]

I'm guess the OP is referring to me here. Put it simply, i wanted to introduce collies to my partner so we could be sure that a collie is in fact the right dog for us. I already know this, as i've had one before, but she hasn't. I think they referred us to the dog show, as that's where we could see said dogs, even if they are show dogs. We are not after a show dog, but there we may be able to find a breeder, and perhaps a non-show dog. THe long and the short about it, is we just want an example of the dog, to be sure about it. Ideally that would just be someone in a park with that specific dog type. Problem is, we've never encountered one.

Hawkeye, I think it is more that you inspired a thread, than a judgement on your question.

Dory is exactly right. Absolutely no reflection on you personally at all, H@wkeye. I didn't want to take your thread off topic is all.

It just intrigued me that many people do assume that breeders who show can only supply dogs for showing, and this is very rarely the case. Most of the healthy, well bred pure bred pets around have originated from people who breed dogs and show them. Most show dogs are pets during the week and show dogs only on the weekends LOL!

[RuralPug]

One of the things I make sure I do on my website is have photos not just of the dogs at shows, but also doing lots of other things too - whether it is cuddling on the bed, interacting with children or elderly (or us!) or at football games, public events, with chickens, playing in the paddock, and simply doing 'everyday stuff'. It shows there is more to them than dog shows and also shows their temperament and versatility. I loved this when I saw it on a friends website (with a different breed) so was sure to do it on my own. I find people looking at the page love to see it and a lot of the pet enquiries I get, people specifically mention how much they loved seeing the dogs doing different things as it really gave them a feel for what they are like. A lot say they chose to contact me because of it.

That is absolutely awesome and a brilliant way to get across to the general public that show dogs aren't some sort of exotic creature that sits on a cushion when not at shows, but are family members just like other dogs!

EFS

Edited October 6, 2014 by RuralPug

[dotdashdot]

One of the things I make sure I do on my website is have photos not just of the dogs at shows, but also doing lots of other things too - whether it is cuddling on the bed, interacting with children or elderly (or us!) or at football games, public events, with chickens, playing in the paddock, and simply doing 'everyday stuff'. It shows there is more to them than dog shows and also shows their temperament and versatility. I loved this when I saw it on a friends website (with a different breed) so was sure to do it on my own. I find people looking at the page love to see it and a lot of the pet enquiries I get, people specifically mention how much they loved seeing the dogs doing different things as it really gave them a feel for what they are like. A lot say they chose to contact me because of it.

That is absolutely awesome and a brilliant way to get across to the general public that show dogs aren't some sort of exotic creature that sits on a cushion when not at shows, but are family members just like other dogs!

EFS

I agree! I love how my breed has a really active facebook group that is run really, really well and there are heaps of breeders interacting with pet people. Not all the show people show their dogs in there "normal" life, but I'd like to think that I'm contributing showing our beach runs, our funny photos (dressed my girls up in bob marley wigs last night) and our show wins.

We're starting a youtube channel too - for us to record our life and be able to watch back, but focusing a lot on the dogs so I can share their fun lives (and the reality of breeding, I plan on filming when we have Nala hip scored, and other health tests done.)

[Flippy Dog]

I'm guess the OP is referring to me here. Put it simply, i wanted to introduce collies to my partner so we could be sure that a collie is in fact the right dog for us. I already know this, as i've had one before, but she hasn't. I think they referred us to the dog show, as that's where we could see said dogs, even if they are show dogs. We are not after a show dog, but there we may be able to find a breeder, and perhaps a non-show dog. THe long and the short about it, is we just want an example of the dog, to be sure about it. Ideally that would just be someone in a park with that specific dog type. Problem is, we've never encountered one.

Hi Hawkeye,

I hoped I read your other post right, I suggested a walk through the dog show so you could show your partner some Collies and maybe even ask some show people about their experiences with the breed and suggests some breeders to research. Can I ask if you went, how did you find it? After reading this thread I thought about my first experiences with shows and realise it can actually be off putting so I hope you had a better experience than I did many years ago. Seeing a DOLer offer to meet you there and introduce you to Collie people sounded like a very warm opportunity so I hope if you got there that it went well.

Wasn't there a thread earlier this year on how registered breeders might consider reviewing their marketing and advertising of their dogs to be competitive with BYBers? I'm not wanting to start an argument but I thought maybe this was along similar thoughts, if so many people look for a dog by online searching and they come up with easy access BYB pups, maybe registered reputable breeders could use marketing and websites to reduce the perception that show dogs are a whole different world? I've spoken to breeders who just wanted to tell me how expensive their dogs were to buy or breed so the litters would be soooooo great and how many wins the dogs have had etc but at the end of the day that's not the information I wanted or what I think the regular pet dog owner wants either. I have owned pedigree mains registered dogs and crossbreeds, their first and most important thing was to be loved family pets regardless of where they came from but yes, I did feel it was a scarier and more difficult thing to find a pedigree dog.