Scottie & Anxiety

[Scottsmum]

Updated Jan 2016 / Am I on the right track?

Hi Guys, I've edited the first post in this thread and also posting at the bottom. Need some feedback re: Scotties SA.

Prior to the move to NZ he and I were living with my parents - while this was great it meant that he had someone around almost all the time. We got him down to 10mg Endep during this time. Any less and it wasn’t effective.

Since the move I've been home almost 100% of the time. When I'm not home it's never for more than 4 hours and I either crate him or chain him up in the yard. Depending on weather or wind. When he's chained up he has access to his bed in the laundry, a bed and kennel in the sun + the grass - both shade and sun & he can see around the corner of the house to the street.

He’s not currently on any SA meds.

So up until recently he'd been, or appeared to have been, really good on the chain. Happy to go on, happy and relaxed when we got home, usually chilling in his bed. No problems. But this week we came home to him howling one day, and I ducked out and did the groceries today (absolute 2 hours max) and got home to "unhappy puppy noises" - He wasn't howling the street down as I came in but I suspect he might have been. Immediate neighbours aren’t home during the day but others in the street are.

So obviously I can't have him crying when he's on the chain. To be honest, I suspect he'd howl even if he was off the chain but locked in the yard.

He can't be left off the chain as the fences are just 4 foot and I'm not convinced the yard is dog proof in multiple places. (under fence, over fence and under house).

He can't be left with free range in the house or in the house with access to the yard because he digs holes in the carpet / pulls things off and out of shelves and shreds any paper he finds – even when he’s medicated + there are the same issues with the fence.

I start work placement in 4 weeks time - which is 3 weeks full time work and obviously I'm job hunting at the moment so I need something in place to help us cope.

I have drawn up a little plan which is basically to track mood and behaviour and so I can make sure he's walked morning and night & track that too. I also pencilled in to do some conditioning or something else which will tire him out before he's tied up for the day.

I also have a small kong - he's not that in to it - but I can offer it to him

with some frozen mince in it. He's not a big chewer / interested in food and he often eats his breakfast frozen so offering a bone or otherwise isn't going to help immensely - it will some but not a lot.

I also have a bit of a plan to tie him up for different durations at random times on random days over the following month but I am really worried 8 + hours a day will throw him into melt down mode.

He does have SA meds - as outlined on this thread in previous posts. The prescribing vet said I can scale it up and down and I have planned to scale him up to a full dose while I'm on placement. Which might be enough as they zonk him out pretty hard.

Other possible options:

Crate him - 8 + hours a day feels a bit mean. I know he can do it physically but to be honest I think he'd hate it (that said, considering how cold summer is – I think this is the most likely option for winter – I can’t see him being happy or comfortable anywhere else in winter). It’s likely he’ll still cry but at least the sound will be muffled by the house and he’s usually amazingly accepting of his crate. He spent the entire time I was living at Dads being crated over night (12 hours) and only had one or two big tantys about it. He’s have to hold his bladder/bowels.

I could try locking him in the kitchen (where he won’t be able to dig holes in the carpet) he might be able to cause other problems (scratched doors possibly scratched lino- is that a thing?) and he’d still have to hold on for the duration of the day – but it could be a ‘nicer’ version than his crate?

I do live close enough to the place I'll be doing placement to come home in my lunch break and walk him or I could come home and swap him from crate/kitchen to chain or vice versa. Coming home in my break isn't likely to be an option when I start work just one of the reasons I'm seeking out part time work! (yikes)

We can't afford a dog walker at the moment and I don't think we have a lot of options there anyhow. I did google doggy day care (as a short term solution) but only found one option and a fair drive out of my way every day.

We do have a small cage thing – which we were required to buy as part of our lease – I could give that a try (Image attached) the two parts are separate but they butt up flush against each other.

Again, he'd probably hold on but if he did need to wee it wouldnt be as much of a problem.

We could build or buy a run but to be honest money is tight and I do think he’d probably cry in there too. – the chain does give him good flexibility and options. I just wish I could reason with him.

So in summary:

More walking,

more drugs closer to the time

a kong

some conditioning exercises or nose work or something else which zaps his energy

fingers crossed?

_-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi All,

We've had a situation developing here, which with hindsight, we should have nipped in the bud a while ago. I have spoken here before about our problematic neighbours and that situation has failed to improve. In the long term, Hubby and I have decided that we'll be moving but in the short term it's causing anxiety in Scottie. We're unable to start looking to move until after Nov 13th when my big work commitment is out of the way for the year and hubbys last exams are done.

So to the dog....Over the last few weeks I've noticed he's become a lot more clingy. Happier to see us at night and a lot more anxious when the (neighbours) fighting starts, I've been trying to reassure him but also ignore him when appropriate. Last night was the worst night (neighbour wise and dog wise). Someone else in the complex called the cops over the domestic but that seemed to spur the neighbours on. That basically equated to Scottie pacing, panting, digging at the carpet, getting up behind the arm chair and scratching/digging and trying to hide behind the 16 pack of loo roll in the bathroom (secure spot obviously) until 4am in the morning. He eventually settled after we put his leash on and made him drop on the foot of our bed.

What all of this lead to was:

1 - a very restless night for all which, in turn, lead to us all having a big nap today.

2 - a realisation that the destructive behavour I've been noticing around the house is anxiety related, not just general "fox terrier getting up to no good". I've been wondering for a few weeks what he's be up to behind the armchair (he was unplugging the TV for a while there) and why the loo roll packet was always moved ... now I know.

3 - the purchase of a crate.

It's three I need to ask for help with. We cant have him digging at the carpet - there are already some signs of excessive ware and tear but now we know why. I also need to have somewhere safe to leave him when he's freaking out. where do I start. I mean if I had all the time in the world I think I'd be OK with transitioning him in there. I've read a lot (here and other places) but a lot of the stuff I've seen is related to puppies (he's a senior). I don't think I've specifically read anything about using the crate for a senior with anxiety. Obviously I don't want to just plonk him in a crate and leave him to be anxious...

I'm thinking of a quick trip to the vet for a chat about some kind of anxiety meds. Not sure if I'm jumping the gun or if its well overdue. Obviously there is nothing we can do about the triggers - which is a whole other post - but we have made contact with Real estate and police at various times.

(just as a side note - Crate is currently in his one of his fav spots in the house. in a cool spot, fave blankies inside and covered with another fave blanket on 3 of the 4 sides. Will remove collar when he's un-supervised)

Thoughts? Opinions?

Edited January 14, 2016 by Scottsmum

[persephone]

I would suggest that you try meds - BUT please get a consult with a Veterinary behaviourist - NOT your GP vet . That way you can also ask about crating .Not sure if that would have him anxious with nowhere to go /nothing to do to alleviate it .Other habits may develop...?

[JulesP]

When my dogs are feeling anxious they choose to go into their crates. ie if we are away in a strange place. But they are already crate trained and like their crates.

Maybe suggest he goes into the crate during a fight but don't lock him in there. See if he settles. If he looks like he is happier in there then you could think about shutting the door. I am just concerned that he doesn't feel trapped in there and stress more.

[Staff'n'Toller]

If you can't change your living situation in the near future I would:

Put a thundershirt on him to wear full-time (taking into account that he isn't too hot in it).

Get the dvd Crate Games and start with that, then build up the time spent in the crate very slowly with you present.

Put the crate in the room furtherest from the commotion.

Vet Behaviourist is good, but there are also general vets in the behaviour special interest group so call and speak to the nurses to see if there is a vet at your practice that specialises in behaviour.

You might wish to try an anxiety mixture from the All-Natural Vet Care in NSW first, but meds wouldn't hurt for the period of time that this is a problem.

You should be able to find a good dose whereby his anxiety is reduced but he isn't tired/zombie-like...and rest is so important for dogs with anxiety- if he can't rest because he can't relax- his anxiety will spiral.

:)

Edited October 5, 2014 by Staff'n'Toller

[Scottsmum]

All really good advice.

Perse - off to the GP vet this arvo as a first measure. Will ask about a behaviorist and will absolutely make sure I raise the problem of feeling trapped / causing other problems.

Thank you all for the responses. Makes me feel better that I'm not just freaking out.

[persephone]

Best of luck with the poor old boy - not what he needs- or you

[Staffyluv]

Agree with SnT.

I have seem amazing changes in dogs with thunder shirts.

With the crate, you need to make every crate experience awesome.

With my fosters when they come, I crate train them. We start by giving the best treat possible (BBQ chook, milk arrowroot biscuits - what ever ti takes) and that treat is only available at crate time.

I sit with the door to the crate open and feed bits of the treat in the crate. We usually start with half a minute a couple of times a day and build up.

Honestly, I really doesn't take long for dogs to want to go in.

Another idea is to make the crate a nice cave type place - put a sheet over the back and ends and keep the other side (door side) uncovered.

Dogs seem to like this cave type set up - from my experience.

[JulesP]

You could try music too.

I played the samples on this site during a bad thunder storm and Poppy did go to sleep. So did I!!! They are very soothing.

http://throughadogsear.com/samples/

[Scottsmum]

Quick Scottie update:

We have been "playing" with the crate - in and out games & sit, drop, stand (in the crate) when possible. I also chucked a pair of my cargo shorts in there so it smells like me and he's hanging out in the crate on his own. Quite a bit from what I can tell.

Neighbours lease wont be renewed when it expires in November (I wont hold my breath) and we've potentially found a new place to move into in December.

We have also started him on amitriptyline and there is limited evidence of "freaking out" this week (no moved loo roll, only unplugged the TV once). I know it's only a week in, but he seems a bit more level (hubby says level, I say flat).

He's still happy to see us when we get home but will happily go back to what ever he is doing (playing with a toy or a bone) which is actually really nice. He's also more relaxed around his morning routine - things don't seem as urgent for him all the time.

There haven't been too many arguments (that we've heard) this week. There was a brief one this morning and he coped OK with it.

I've also organised for him to go to a friends place one day a week for a bit of respite, but that wont kick in for a few weeks.

so... we'll plug on with playing in the crate. I'll also make an appt at the All Natural Vets (time and money is a bit tight at the moment) but all in all he's a lot happier this weekend then he was last weekend.

[persephone]

it is all sounding pretty progressive! :)

[VizslaMomma]

Hi All,

(just as a side note - Crate is currently in his one of his fav spots in the house. in a cool spot, fave blankies inside and covered with another fave blanket on 3 of the 4 sides. Will remove collar when he's un-supervised)

Thoughts? Opinions?

My old boy who turns 15 years later in the month has just been re-introduced to his crate as a way to let him rest and not wander the wander of the senile. As you described, the crate is in a place he loved when in full possession of his facilities. I let him be crated all the time I was home but with the door open.He had some 'munchies', a treasured blanket & soft toys. I kinda feel some light went on inside his brain. He got himself out of the crate over the first couple of days without being stressed. Now, he goes to the crate & makes himself comfortable. I spoke to my darling Vet. We both agreed using Adaptil diffused might help him. I think it has. Since he is old, I rarely collar him & had no need under these circumstances.

I hope you have success too.

:D

[Scottsmum]

Hi All,

(just as a side note - Crate is currently in his one of his fav spots in the house. in a cool spot, fave blankies inside and covered with another fave blanket on 3 of the 4 sides. Will remove collar when he's un-supervised)

Thoughts? Opinions?

My old boy who turns 15 years later in the month has just been re-introduced to his crate as a way to let him rest and not wander the wander of the senile. As you described, the crate is in a place he loved when in full possession of his facilities. I let him be crated all the time I was home but with the door open.He had some 'munchies', a treasured blanket & soft toys. I kinda feel some light went on inside his brain. He got himself out of the crate over the first couple of days without being stressed. Now, he goes to the crate & makes himself comfortable. I spoke to my darling Vet. We both agreed using Adaptil diffused might help him. I think it has. Since he is old, I rarely collar him & had no need under these circumstances.

I hope you have success too.

:D

Good to hear he's settled back into his crate. Quickly by the sounds of things.

Quick update: more for me to keep a bit of a record.

Scottie has been very unsettled this week, but we had a crap week. The big storm last week unsettled him. It also created a hole in our roof and therefore a leak in our ceiling. I took him to work 2 days last week and he went to my Aunts one day.

He also had an upset Tummy + spat at least one tablet out (I suspect AM - not that it matters). Possible that he wasnt getting a full dose of medication due to both.

He did the bolt on my Aunt (snuck out the gate). Chucked a bit of a tanty on me + also did a runner on me (almost got hit by a car) on saturday afternoon too.

Not holding up too much hope for this week to be a lot better - hubby is away for work and Scottie is confused / looking for him - I busted him howling along to the alarm clock this morning! Have booked two days with the dog walker + took him to work today. Hubby should hopefully be home early friday - however we're away this weekend.

vet check due in 10 days.

[RuralPug]

Ups and downs will happen.

Do try the Thundershirt - perhaps ask if someone could lend you one for a trial before you purchase your own. If I had seen the post earlier I might have suggested trialling Rescue Remedy, but he is already on vet medication so I wouldn't mix the two.

[Scottsmum]

Ups and downs will happen.

Do try the Thundershirt - perhaps ask if someone could lend you one for a trial before you purchase your own. If I had seen the post earlier I might have suggested trialling Rescue Remedy, but he is already on vet medication so I wouldn't mix the two.

I'm a touch worried he'll get too hot - coming into summer. Waiting to hear back from a RE about a possible move... fingers crossed.

[schnauzer]

My 7 year old rescue had extreme anxiety (similar to your dog) and pica - which became life threatening when she ended up in ICU after eating some fabric. I used a combination of Clomicalm, even more exercise and the Great Dane Rescue site's guide for Separation Anxiety (thank you SAS). After about two months we weaned her off the clomicalm. This combination worked very well for my bitch - maybe you could try it for Scottie? She is now calm and much more relaxed. I could not leave a thundershirt on her as it was too hot.

[Scottsmum]

schnauzer - I've read that guide before. Thanks for the reminder to re-visit it. We've also got a plan in place to wean him off the meds when we've settled into a new place.

Quick update;

Had script filled with the vet this week. Saw the owner, not the sunday casual. He was really happy. Strongly urged more behavior work but also encouraged us to keep Scottie on a full dose of meds until we've moved and settled in, then gave us a plan to wean him off the meds when we've settled.

Had an OK week. He's been getting lots of exercise and coming home from his little 2x weekly play dates absolutely knackered.

First lesson of Scent work today. We'd previously done some classes with another provider but they weren't forth coming with lessons for the next stage so we found a new place. I was so happy with him. Remembered the game straight up, did really well and he settled in his crate, with me often out of sight between goes.

Such a good little man when he *needs* to be.... well, actually, for a terrier he's pretty bloody good all the time

Edited November 1, 2014 by Scottsmum

[VizslaMomma]

That's encouraging for you both.

It's a worry when our furkids are not happy.

Paws crossed for ongoing improvement.

:D

[Scottsmum]

Thanks VM. Lots of improvement with him this week. Fingers crossed it stays this way

[Jumabaar]

I am SO glad that you opted for meds! They will dramatically improve his quality of life which is amazing

Also remember that you can't reinforce 'feelings' and 'emotions' so if he is feeling stressed don't feel bad about letting him sit and chill with you (when you have the time). I do this with my storm phobic dogs by curling up on my bed and reading a book- they have both improved just by being able to have contact with me.

[Scottsmum]

Anyone know if its possible to buy a thundershirt over the counter in Sydney? I've googled but can't seem to see if theyre in petshops. I'm in Marrickville and will be out in the hills for class. Happy to detour to pick one up. Storms are causing havoc here!