Am I In The Wrong?

[Salukifan]

I'm kind of on your side Yonjuro, dogs can be boisterous at times and this is something I'd reasonably expect at a dog park with a number of dogs off a leash. The main thing is your dog isn't violent and he/she is under control. The park is for everyone to enjoy.

Spot the potential conflict in those two statements.

[OSoSwift]

If your dog came up and out a paw on my otherwise placid boy he would get nailed. If not he would cruise around Ignoring all the other dogs. Having said that I don't do dog parks.

And yes HD I agree.

[Simply Grand]

If your dog came up and out a paw on my otherwise placid boy he would get nailed. If not he would cruise around Ignoring all the other dogs. Having said that I don't do dog parks.

And yes HD I agree.

What do you mean by nailed OSo? What would your boy do?

[OSoSwift]

Growl and flatten with spit. My btch goes from nothing to teeth holes so she does not go I to those environments. Her is growl launch and sink teeth in as hard as she can, the boy does growl flatten and spit but has bite inhibition.

He likes other whippets and greyhounds but is not interested in other dogs of other breeds so will merrily do his own thing ignoring other dogs until they shove, stand over or put a paw or something on him.

[Simply Grand]

Thanks OSo. Interesting to hear. I'm trying to think through what I think is appropriate and inappropriate in these types of situations (just for my own sake, I know it doesn't matter to everyone else what I sort out in my head :laugh: ) and it's good to hear other people's experiences and expectations.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Simply Grand

[OSoSwift]

My bitches reaction is totally inappropriate, she has damaged another persons Whippetand Lewis due to her lack of bite inhibition, hence I am wary.

My boys I believe is appropriate to a degree, he has the right to be there and not get shoved nipped etc, but due to the fact he is what he is, if he does it to a dog that flies back he could get shredded easily so I don't risk it. At home he does it to the BC when get gets in his face and annoying and as long as he doesn't chase him down and only does it when the BC is in his face pushing buttons I let it go.

Edited October 6, 2014 by OSoSwift

[Simply Grand]

Yes, I agree with your thinking. I also allow a lot more "sorting it out themselves" amongst my own dogs than I do with other dogs, partly because I can't be sure how the other dog will react and need to ensure my own dogs' safety and partly because I don't know how the other dog will respond to my dogs' behaviour and don't want to cause a negative effect for them.

It's hard because people have such different levels of understanding of dog behaviour and expectations of what's ok and what isn't and things can go very wrong very fast.

[Blackdogs]

I was once at the dog beach and witnessed an entire make rotty charge up to every dog there and stand over them until they submitted. I started to leave because my entire male wouldn't stand for that conduct, but the dog rushed up to us and I had to grab him by the collar before he got to us. The owner was upset that I'd grabbed him and didn't understand why I had 'an aggressive dog' at the park. I suppose it all gets pretty complicated when most people only have a basic understanding of behavior.

[Blackdogs]

I also remember when I was young and naive allowing my boisterous dog to harrass other dogs and not understanding why owners didn't let their dogs play with mine. You can't blame people for naivety I suppose. Behavioral education isn't a requirement for owning a dog.

[Simply Grand]

That's the thing Blackdogs, people often think a dog responding entirely reasonably to another dog's rude or inappropriate behaviour is being aggressive when in fact it isn't.

Then there's the other side of the coin where people think their dog is just playing or was provoked when it fact it is displaying aggressive behaviour.

People often panic in an altercation too so don't actually observe what is happening or know how to diffuse a situation between dogs.

ETA - so true, if only it was a requirement for owning a dog

Edited October 6, 2014 by Simply Grand

[OSoSwift]

Yep BD, I have also grabbed the collar of a young boisterous dog that charged mine - to play, not attack. I got him inches from them and damaged my wrist. Had he got them at that speed he would have damaged them as they were on short leads as we were walking down the track.

[Salukifan]

My older dogs are beyond play with strangers. They'd never be taken to a dog park.

My younger dogs enjoy chasing games. They do not enjoy being T-Boned, jumped on, mouthed or humped by "boisterous dogs".

So a park with a dog that plays rough and physical is not a park they can go to. If parks are for all dogs to enjoy then dogs that cannot play without hard physical encounters with other dogs are a positive disincentive for many owners and dogs. So much for the "every dog" theory.

[Yonjuro]

Here is a little vid I took a couple of days ago, this is pretty normal in my opinion...

[OSoSwift]

My version of going to the dog park is, there are dogs oflead - not right next to the main gate. They stay away from entering dogs - either becasue their owners call them or they don't care.

I approach or someone else approaches me to see if my dog would like to meet theirs, yes or no occurs. If yes the dogs get to know each other, all going well they run around and play together. If things don't go well/no they move a distance away from each other and go on their respective merry ways.

My dog does not approach anyone I have not checked with, no-ones dog approaches mine that has not asked.

People understand that shoving, jumping on, standing over and humping are rude behaviours. People don't let their offlead dog run up to others at any time unless it is double checked, all people respect that other dogs may not like being approached and have the right not to be. The dogs have very good leave it's/recalls.

I also understand this is never going to happen, hence I don't go to any :)

[OSoSwift]

The brindle dog and yours obviously know each other. My dogs play like that all the time with no issue. If I took my dogs to the park and they did that too them my Bitch would have gone shredder and my boy would have reprimanded. If they were known, it would be no issue.

[Simply Grand]

I feel like there is a significant difference between a specific fenced dog park and a shared area where dogs are allowed to be off leash. Probably not legally but pragmatically.

I think many dogs are not suited to free running and interactions with other dogs and would be better off not attending dog-specific parks, because I do think it is inevitable, and natural, that there will be interactions, some challenging, and both dogs and humans need to be able to handle that. How it is handled depends on so, so many factors though so it's not black and white.

However I think any dog or human should be able to be at a shared off leash area without fear of unsolicited interaction with other dogs. So again, not all dogs are suitable to be off leash in those areas, but I think the onus is slightly different in each situation.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Simply Grand

[Yonjuro]

The brindle dog and yours obviously know each other. My dogs play like that all the time with no issue. If I took my dogs to the park and they did that too them my Bitch would have gone shredder and my boy would have reprimanded. If they were known, it would be no issue.

This is how they played the first time they met, but yes they now know each other. The first round was Ronin chasing and they swap roles. I am lucky I guess as the owner now texts me when she is going to the park in the morning and we meet up. I discussed my worries of the park with her and me not wanting to go in the evening times. Her comment were basically that she and her dog Tigger love their play sessions and has urged me to continue meet ups. Interestingly all of the greyhound people including the Iggy people love Ronin's play.

I just pick and choose times to go now, I also keep a hawk-eye on him never let my dog get away with any rude behaviour. I will continue working with my trainer in helping Ronin be the best canine citizen I can :)

[OSoSwift]

That is great, I would love to meet more people such as yourself, who not only do the very best they can but ask questions and take on board answers. Thank you.

I do not want or encourage my dogs to have a high value for other dogs, so a group session in a dog park goes against that. If I didn't think or want that then it is possible they would be more social. I also have multiple dogs so they can play quite hapiily with one or three other dogs - plus the odd rescue I have kicking around :)

Having said that my bitch went to a puppy school group where there was heaps of group play that she loved and was a total social butterfly. On only a small number of occassions when she was 6 months old, then around 12 months, she was harrassed by a dog and she went with the get them before they get me way of things. I think had I not allowed her in that sitation she would be as she was today. The second two have never been taught to see other dogs as anything of interest and actually deal with them and any unwanted attention much more appropriately than my bitch.

Edited October 6, 2014 by OSoSwift

[Yonjuro]

That is great, I would love to meet more people such as yourself, who not only do the very best they can but ask questions and take on board answers. Thank you.

I do not want or encourage my dogs to have a high value for other dogs, so a group session in a dog park goes against that. If I didn't think or want that then it is possible they would be more social.

Having said that my bitch went to a puppy school group where there was heaps of group play that she loved and was a total social butterfly. On only a small number of occassions when she was 6 months old, then around 12 months, she was harrassed by a dog and she went with the get them before they get me way of things. I think had I not allowed her in that sitation she would be as she was today. The second two have never been taught to see other dogs as anything of interest and actually deal with them and any unwanted attention much more appropriately than my bitch.

Thanks very much :) Interestingly my topic that I want to discuss with our trainer next week is decreasing the value of other dogs. I work on it while walking every day but fear the run around sessions at the park may limit my success. I am pretty sure I know that my trainer will recommend me staying away from parks

I will just have to keep plugging away and take on board the advice I get. I do feel it is pretty important that he is social with other dogs due to our desire to start dry land mushing next year and join the WA club- urghh caring for a dog is meant to be good for the health, but I feel the stress sometimes.

[OSoSwift]

See if I want my dogs to compete around other dogs - at obedience, agility, showing, I want them to have no value for other dogs. They know they are there, they know what they are and are not worried about them, but have no value for them, they have value for me.

So if I wanted to do dryland mushing I would train him around otehr dogs but wouldn't not or do not see it necessary for him to actually play with other dogs.

Not sure if I am making sense. But my dogs who have been neutralised around otehr dogs are actually better with them than the one who initially played with other dogs.