Am I In The Wrong?

[Danois]

I think its reasonable that he can exercise his dog whether it is carrying an injury or not. He was right to be cautious about your dog as last time it did demonstrate some rough behaviour. If you are not able to have the effective control over your dog that would allow the both of you to use the park without the dogs interacting then yes, you should pop your dog on leash.

Dog parks are not free for alls and you are still required to have your dog under effective control at all times - and this includes being able to recall them off/ away from other dogs.

[Brandiandwe]

My dogs don't do rude dogs, one is a dominant bitch with prey drive, another has become highly reactive thanks to rude dogs and has prey drive issues, and of course I have an elder gentleman who is quite excitable. Three of my four are muzzled and all will chase, coordinate their run and take other dogs down, regardless of size. It will come as no surprise that we don't do off leash parks unless I can prevent others entering for the fifteen minutes it takes to wear my guys out.

If your dog is sometimes rude but doesn't react back and doesn't necessarily leave the other dog alone and begins to tease, then that's on you. Those sorts of dogs are the ones which have resulted in mine becoming leash reactive because they just don't listen, my dog gets more and more worked up and the next time, the threshold is so much lower. Eventually either your dog will get bitten or it will react and someone else's dog will get hurt.

[huski]

My perspective is this:

When I have my dogs off leash I don't allow them to approach unfamiliar dogs.

When I see other off leash dogs I assume the worst and manage my dogs accordingly.

That said my dogs (and temporary pup) are off leash to train. Whether that's agility, obedience, retrieving or just repeated recalls (released to run and sniff again) and whistle sits.

It sounds a bit over protective but it keeps my dogs safe and happy and maintains my sanity.

I don't use dog parks, but I agree with you TSD. If I'm out anywhere and see another dog I call mine to me and leash them or put them in a down stay. I don't want my dogs to rush up to dogs but I'm also not interested in having them socialise with strange dogs.

[Yonjuro]

Well most people think he is the opposite of rude, but I don't agree 100%. I will just have to work harder and possibly wait until his teenager phase is gone before I go back to the park. I could easily blame the other dogs that attacked mine when his was younger and was on leash at a park, however I have worked hard on making him better as is illustrated by a few people have asked for play dates with my boy.

[The Spotted Devil]

Yonjuro I think a lot of folk underestimate how much work you need to put in to develop and maintain an awesome recall...

Think of the environment (dogs, running, swimming, smells, prey etc) being like a pot of gold bullion.

You, on the other hand, are holding a small bag of one and two cent pieces :D

I suspect I know which one your dog is likely to choose and every time he chooses that super rewarding environment that's another handful of gold coins in the pot.

[The Spotted Devil]

Regardless of whether people think he's rude, what do other dogs think would be my question.

[Yonjuro]

Yonjuro I think a lot of folk underestimate how much work you need to put in to develop and maintain an awesome recall...Think of the environment (dogs, running, swimming, smells, prey etc) being like a pot of gold bullion. You, on the other hand, are holding a small bag of one and two cent pieces :DI suspect I know which one your dog is likely to choose and every time he chooses that super rewarding environment that's another handful of gold coins in the pot.

You got that right :laugh: Bloody miserable copper coins !

Regardless of whether people think he's rude, what do other dogs think would be my question.

Yes this is very true as I am realising, I don't want to be the ignoramus at the park. The highs are high but the lows are low as I now realise. I just don't want the stress or to cause stress.

[Yonjuro]

I thank you all for the comments, I think I better understand different perspectives now. I appreciate that I am not a perfect dog owner but I generally do try to consider others. I will reflect on the best way forward and continue to discuss and work on our shortcomings with our trainer.

I don't think there is much more to be gained by continuing with this topic.

Many thanks :)

[The Spotted Devil]

One more thing....

I have lost count of the number of puppies and dogs I have worked with through various classes. My own dogs do some super stuff and I'm really proud of their achievements. However, they are dogs so sometimes they do stuff I'm not expecting. Sadly, I am also human and many a time I have stuffed up their progress. Fortunately they are very forgiving of my failures and I can only try not to make the same mistakes again. It's great that you can see the other perspectives - go have fun with your dog :)

[Yonjuro]

One more thing....

I have lost count of the number of puppies and dogs I have worked with through various classes. My own dogs do some super stuff and I'm really proud of their achievements. However, they are dogs so sometimes they do stuff I'm not expecting. Sadly, I am also human and many a time I have stuffed up their progress. Fortunately they are very forgiving of my failures and I can only try not to make the same mistakes again. It's great that you can see the other perspectives - go have fun with your dog :)

Thanks TSD, I appreciate your comments :)

[LisaCC]

He could be like me, I use dog parks but not to let my boy have free play with other dogs. I use them to give him some off leash running and to practice training in distracting environments. If someone is in the park I will go to the oval next to it, walk, train etc and wait for them to leave.

I personally wouldn't take an injured dog to a dog park, but that's up to him.

As a husky owner I'm sure you already know this but Huskies natural stance can be a bit unnerving to some dogs too. So even if Ronin was perfectly behaved some owners might know their dogs get worried by huskies and certain breeds. My boy stresses just being too close in obedience class to a doberman because of it's upright posture and it has a tendency to stare. It a lovely obedient, friendly dog, just it's own relaxed behaviour unnerves my boy.

Edited September 28, 2014 by LisaCC

[Loving my Oldies]

Yes, all public places should be give and take, but so often this is not the case and the responsible people like Yonjuro will end up leaving and what is left is a rabble.

Some dogs love placing chasey and some don't.

From my own experiences and from many Off Leash threads on DOL, off leash parks do more harm than good because most people are not as responsible as Yonjuro.

I cannot believe a trainer saying it is okay for little dogs to rush Ronin and say it is okay because Ronin is not reacting.

So many trainers who shouldn't be let within a bull's roar of a dog.

And for an owner to take a dog to an off leash park when that dog has had a hip operation - well, I'm lost for words.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Dame Danny's Darling

[dididog]

Didi is an adolescent large breed who goes to an off lead area with other dogs almost everyday. We go primarily to exercise her so don't go out of our way to play with other dogs however if a dog wants to play with Didi or just greet one another then I don't mind stopping. Didi, as I'm sure Ronin does as well, appears intimidating to smaller dogs due to her size and because of this will lie down a fair few metres away from a dog she approaching to play with/say hi to and allow them to approach in a way they find comfortable and only gets up once they've had a sniff. She does this even with larger dogs too which is good because it means she's never going to upset a dog by rushing up to it, I've had a lot of people remark their dog or puppy is usually scared of larger dogs but have been fine with Didi as she puts the ball in their court when it comes to interaction. Perhaps with smaller dogs or nervous dogs you could encourage Ronin to lie down to greet? It will help diminish reactions that I'm sure crop up with his size and natural stance with dogs that are unsure of him and will give an owner a chance to tell you they don't want their dog to play with yours before he tries to initiate play.

Some dogs might be a bit nervous around big dogs/bouncy dogs but I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to use offlead areas, fear aggressive or dog aggressive then perhaps not a good idea, but if just uncomfortable with intimidating or boisterous dogs then I think personally as a large dog owner it's in the best interest of everyone to not allow my dog to interact with a dog that is not comfortable with her size or play style, why risk it? In fact I pretty much never allow Didi to initiate interaction when I don't know the other dog, that way she's only interacting with dogs that want to and she's less likely to get snapped at which even though she takes like a champ, I still don't like her having to deal with that. Even as a large boofer Didi does not like to be chased unless it is in a reciprocated game so can understand a small dog owner being alarmed at their dog being chased if it was not enjoying it and playing back.

As for the injured dog... well I'm not sure how recently after hip surgery this was but where I live in the inner city I've come across quite a few dogs on the mend as this is the only place they have to go to plod around away from the concrete and busy traffic. If I can clearly see a dog is recovering from something or I am told they are then I make Didi leave them alone and will usually pop her back on lead and move away in case the injured dog is feeling vulnerable and give them their space.

I understand this is more of a 'dog park' than an off lead area but I still think there needs to be a lot of give and take and consideration, even if it seems illogical for a dog to be there if someone doesn't want your dog to interact with them then you've got to respect that. If you can't rely on your dog to stay away then yes it might mean popping them on lead for a bit. I don't really think you've done anything worth fretting over, and it's good that you are concerned about Ronin's dog park etiquette, seeing as most people treat them as daycare for their obnoxious under stimulated dogs you are definitely not an issue!

[dancinbcs]

Off lead park or not, dogs must be under effective control and that means being able to make sure they do not bother or approach any other dog or person who has not given their permission for your dog to approach. If your dog cannot be properly controlled, use the park when it is empty and ask anyone else who wants to use it to wait a few minutes so your boy can have a run, then be put back on lead. Take turns to use the fenced area. Most people do not want strange dogs interacting with theirs and they have the same right to walk their dog in a public park as anyone else. Believe it or not, many dogs have absolutely no desire to approached by any dog outside their pack. How would it be at an obedience or agility trial if all the dogs bolted off to play with other dogs as soon as their leads are removed. Of course they don't. You can have dozens of dogs off lead at obedience/agility trials and training and they all stay near their owners and ignore the other dogs. I would love to be able to take my dogs to a fenced dog park for a run and training sessions but I will never trust any dog I do not know to interact with them and so many people seem to think that if it is off lead then it is a free for all and they don't need to train their dogs. I would love the parks to have decent fences with gates that can be locked from the inside to stop anyone else entering while my dogs have a run, perhaps with a timer that unlocks the gates after a set time so no one can hog the park for too long.

[Yonjuro]

Lots of very good comments.

I always understand that some dogs (and people) simply find a husky to be intimidating and threatening. Their natural stance can be misinterpreted as aggressive, so I do bear this in mind when talking to others. Husky vocalisation is also something that can be quite intimidating to those not familiar with the breed. I have had quite a few people say to me - "oh, my dog doesn't like huskies" But because I love dogs I have a chat about their stance and vocalisation etc and understand their concerns.

I am finding I have to be so hyper vigilant that it is taking the pleasure away from the park. I love so much to see him run full pelt, it gives me goose-pimples especially with the Greyhounds but the lows are difficult to manage. There might be 6 or 10 people all with different dogs , different training levels, ages, size, different expectations and every combination of temperament that just make it a minefield to navigate.

I have had one person say "they don't trust Huskies" to another person when my boy was being an angel, same person said I should watch some Cesar Millan to learn about dog behaviour and a few other comments that have worn me down. In stark contrast there are many others that have said how wonderful, gentle and well trained he is - so it is becoming so difficult to work out where we stand, but many of the previous comments have helped my understanding.

I guess today was the straw that broke the camels back But I am under no allusions, he is young and very energetic and can be a boofhead sometimes, maybe he will be less excited when the teenage phase is over? It has also really only been 1.5 months since his neutering so possible that there is still a reasonable amount of testosterone bouncing around :) His desexing was due to cryptorchidism not behavioural.

I know I just have to have a break, stay away and stop stressing myself about park interactions.

... where I mentioned about nervous dogs I was really referring to a few that I have seen that were foaming at the mouth from nervousness or fear, and this I thought was very worrying.

[LisaCC]

There is no reason you can't enjoy him running and playing, but why not limit it to dogs you know so the risk is lower?

Get those greyhounds and their owners together and organise a quieter time to go and let them run their hearts out

[Yonjuro]

There is no reason you can't enjoy him running and playing, but why not limit it to dogs you know so the risk is lower?

Get those greyhounds and their owners together and organise a quieter time to go and let them run their hearts out

You are of course right LisaCC :) I gave one greyhound lady my number and hope to catch up at a quiet time.

[LisaCC]

I may be biased though, the few dogs I let Nova free run with are sighthounds, a greyhound and a Staghound x

Edited September 28, 2014 by LisaCC

[Yonjuro]

:thumbsup:

[aussielover]

I guess it depends on the size of the park? Most fenced dog parks are not large enough IMO to allow dogs to have their own space and just do their own things. In fact the very size and set up of most dog parks in my area encourage free for alls and don't allow for much else, which is why I generally avoid them. My dog is disinterested in unfamiliar dogs and would rather play with me so I see small fenced dog parks as completely useless for us.

The few times I have been to fenced dog parks in my area I have been quite disturbed by some dogs and owners behaviour.

In your case I'm not sure what the owner of the other dog expected his dog to get out of it?

I think he needs to be more realistic about the fact that most people that use these sort of dog parks, do so to let their dog play with other dogs.

Personally I prefer off leash open areas as there is usually enough space for dogs to do their own thing and you generally dogs with a better level of control.