How Do You Deal With Growling?

[Pretty Miss Emma]

I'm grumpy after something today where dogs were told not to be dogs. They were behaving appropriately given the interaction, but the people around didn't like what they were doing so they ineffectively interuppted (therefore one dog learning there is no point giving a warning, the other learning that it doesn't need to listen to warnings - she kept going back to continue the behaviour). This was a puppy and a mature dog interacting, no dog was going to be hurt, neither dog had actually touched each other and there was no sign they would. The mature dog was just telling the puppy that she was being obnoxious and to go away. Of course due to being interuppted all of this went askew.

I think that dogs need to be dogs. No matter how much we love them they are not humans and they do things the way that dogs do things. I feel that shutting down their dog behaviour has the potential to create dangerous situations.

I don't know if I'm living in some sort of dream world, or if I actually do have a real grip on these things.

Thus the poll! I'd love honest answers please. I know this is a dog community so the answers will be skewed, but I wonder if I'm on the right track sometimes.

Oh and I know that the poll is somewhat limiting, you'll have to elaborate or give alternatives in your comments if you'd like to!

[The Spotted Devil]

I know my dogs very well - I have a puppy here at the moment and all 3 adult dogs (mine plus a visitor) growl at pup VERY appropriately. If she doesn't take notice it's my job to remove her. The visitor growled at Zig when the former had a bone. No correction. However I did go and pick up all the old bones lying around and hit myself over the head with a rolled up newspaper :D

[kelpiecuddles]

For me it depends entirely on the situation. Appropriate warning growl or even a small snap I leave them to it if it's directed at another dog who is behaving inappropriately, especially if it's a young puppy or similiar who needs to learn and isn't likely to respond with an attack, etc. Inappropriate growling at other dogs or at people and it is dealt with by me.

[Simply Grand]

Really interesting topic PME :)

For me it depends so much on the dog AND what else is going on with their communication, especially body language.

Quinn is brilliant at communicating with other dogs, she has a real ability to read them and convey her own messages, appease, give space when needed etc etc and she's very good at teaching boundaries to puppies. Interestingly though she doesn't really growl. She's pretty patient with general puppy annoying-ness but if a pup shows behaviour that is too inappropriate (foster puppy coming to close when she had high value food, several fear aggressive pups at the dog park growling and snapping) she will very much use her body language, head position, eye contact and lip lifts to warn (it's very clear what she's doing) and if they don't heed her it will be a swift, firm "rrggh" as she pounces, puts them on their back and stands over them. She doesn't put her mouth on them or make much sound but just stands over them until she's satisfied with their response then let's them up and all is well again I've seen her do it to four different pups now, including Sneezy foster puppy, and it's amazing to watch.

I trust her instincts and behaviour completely but I know it could be scary for a puppy owner who doesn't realise what's happening so I'm very careful about giving her free reign to do it.

Riley on the other hand is pretty bad at dog communication. He will sometimes growl at another dog if he's uncomfortable but you can see he lacks confidence, his body leans right back when he does it, he often lifts a paw and he moves his head around wanting to look away but being unsure. I've worked a lot with him on changing his association with other dogs and teaching him alternate behaviours to staying there growling at them when he's uncomfortable, and I try hard to step in before it gets to the point of growling but if he does start it I step in straight away and steer him away from the dog and give him something else to do because he clearly isn't in control of the situation.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Simply Grand

[Pretty Miss Emma]

It is all very contextual. I've been battling for a good 3 years trying to educate the people within the scenario mentioned on the fact that dogs communicate differently to us and that's ok. It just gets really frustrating. Last week I got to see what can happen when a dog isn't able to give all the warning signals (either because it never learnt them or was told off for doing them), and I just feel it is much worse having a dog go from 0-100 in a split second than having a puppy told that they are obnoxious (and I'm the one with the puppy, I have no concern whatsoever for her as she behaves appropriately when she sees that the older dog means it).

It just gets very frustrating seeing people trying to put so much "humaness" (Ok anthropomorphising!) on to dogs and I think it's really unfair on the dogs.

[CHA]

Oh i hear you, i have family members who tell off their extremely placid mature dog for growling at the extremely annoying puppy! The poor mature dog now tries to hide from the puppy, i try to explain to them that the older dig has every right to educate the pup, but they're all like "the poor little pup getting growled at"!!

[Simply Grand]

It is all very contextual. I've been battling for a good 3 years trying to educate the people within the scenario mentioned on the fact that dogs communicate differently to us and that's ok. It just gets really frustrating. Last week I got to see what can happen when a dog isn't able to give all the warning signals (either because it never learnt them or was told off for doing them), and I just feel it is much worse having a dog go from 0-100 in a split second than having a puppy told that they are obnoxious (and I'm the one with the puppy, I have no concern whatsoever for her as she behaves appropriately when she sees that the older dog means it).

It just gets very frustrating seeing people trying to put so much "humaness" (Ok anthropomorphising!) on to dogs and I think it's really unfair on the dogs.

Yep, there is yet another 4-5month old working breed pup I've seen at the park (the three Quinn has disciplined have all been mixed working breeds - seems to be a spate of fear aggressive adolescent working breeds around!) who I really worry about. She belongs to a young girl who has no clue what she's doing unfortunately. The pup is clearly terrified and is doing all she can to get the other dogs away from her (growling, barking, snapping, would bite if close enough I think) and every time the girl seriously punishes her - smacks her, yells, jerks her of the ground by the leash, pins her to the ground by the neck - and I can just see that she's teaching this pup that yes indeed other dogs are AWFUL to be around but she isn't to give any warnings

I've been planning how to step in a bit and help her but I haven't seen her lately unfortunately.

[Dame Aussie]

I completely agree PME

[Ivory & Beau]

Within my own pack and with my parents dog I allow growling, snapping and mini disagreements. Ivy is always telling the other dogs off.

Though out in public it rarely happens unless the other dog starts it but I don't allow it. I don't tell her off, I just take her away.

[Little Gifts]

I used to be quite concerned about any growling. But I've been around several pei who do it regularly (including my current girl). I now see it as one of their natural ways of vocalising/communicating how they are feeling and usually it has been them expressing they were a bit unsure and for everyone to give them some space and let them work it all out. There was no aggression behind it and it wasn't going to escalate into anything other than them withdrawing. There was also a submissive kind of behaviour and flitting eye contact with it and no lip snarls - just the noise and a frozen kind of stance. I also know a couple who seem to grumble talk like this and people would often say to me "why is your dog growling at me?". My girl Tempeh growls when she plays with other dogs and me. I don't know why really but to be honest she is always making one noise or another so I read nothing in to that. I hope I am sensible enough to realise it wont be the same with other pei or other breeds of dogs. I would be reading the eyes, lips, tail and body stance as well as assessing the situation to make a quick determination on whether there was a risk to mine or other dogs or humans.

I also think older dogs disciplining younger dogs is healthy doggy behaviour. How else is one dog supposed to tell another dog they are being a pain in the butt? Our oldest is a dibber dobber and it is usually Tempeh being growled or snapped at for being in everyone's face. I always let them sort it out for themselves (under my supervision) but if the messages weren't picked up on immediately I would remove the main trouble maker from the equation.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Little Gifts

[hankdog]

Can't fill out the survey. Jake gives no warning, no growl ever that I can remember. Straight to lunging and barking but as I got him at 5 I don't know exactly what his earlier life was. I really wish be did have an escalating behaviour rather than straight to flat out.

[Bjelkier]

Usually I allow the dogs to take actions they see fit when dealing with one another, especially puppies being disciplined.

However my two males tend to get a bit testy with each other, especially when the girls are in season and I've learnt that a growl and a bit of posturing between them can start a serious argument pretty quickly, however if I step in with a quick growled word of my own before that happens tempers are lowered and they go back to being pleasant with one another.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Bjelkier

[OSoSwift]

It depends on what the senario is. My bitch will go from either a small growl to teeth holes or nothing to teeth holes, so with ehr I will interevene when I read her body language.

The boys are very good and will growl and carry on and generally sort it out so I let them go. Very occassionally one will get into the others face and lick him flat out, flop infront of him all the time and generlaly be a total pain in the butt and the other dog gets very grumpy. I will stop the annoying dog then, but not the one trying to tell him to bugger off.

Once my dog growled at my smallish child who in 2 seconds had done something he had been disciplined not long before, for trying to do. The child got in big trouble, the dog got told thank you for the warning.

[Kajirin]

I've let Scout growl [and occasionally lunge/nip, when a growl hasn't been sufficient] at Sarge since he came here. He learnt quickly not to be overly obnoxious with playing and biting [with puppy fangs]. Sarge learnt his place quick enough, knows when to back off when he gets the stink eye look from Scout.

Think Scout being allowed to communicate properly has been teaching Sarge good manners. Made a conscious effort to just let Scout deal with the pup as he saw fit [have been proud fo him to be honest], I would use low tone growly voice at the pup to back Scout up - never chastising the elder dog. Have noticed it more and more in regards to manners since starting obedience training, if a dog growls at Sarge he backs right off, instead of ignoring subtle cues and jumping in the other dogs faces continuously [like Scout did as a pup, as he grew up as an only dog].

[Steph M]

I had a similar incident yesterday. Gus signed up to be in some promotional filming for work, so he was at work with me all day (not as fun as it sounds, BTW!)

A few other people had dogs too, including a young pup who had designs on Gus's pigs ear, he growled and gave her a bark, to which the owner of the pup jumped back and made a big deal of it, I hadn't come across it before (new situation, high value treat, inappropriate puppy about at meal time) so I shushed him and carried on talking.

The more I think about it the guiltier I feel. If I was eating and some Dingus tried to take my plate I'd be shitty, especially if it was something yum I don't get often.

I feel like a right jerk now, but lesson learned. He certainly wasn't nasty to the pup and I don't believe he would even get as far as a nip but the owner just made such a huge deal of it I felt obliged to do something, which I guess stems from embarrassment?

Edited September 17, 2014 by Steph M

[Steph M]

However on the other side of the coin, I'm quite happy for other dogs to correct Gus in the same manner. I know he can be quite rude when the mood strikes, being an exuberant breed and an adolescent male he has his moments. I don't shield him from other dogs growling if he gets in their face and should he get a nip, in most cases he deserved it. Dogs speak dog much better than me...

[Leah82]

Sarah is great at growling when she's not impressed, if it persists it's usually because Collie is not listening to her so we intervene.

If Sarah has a treat or toy that Collie wants, he'll heed the growl but if it's because his playing is getting too much it just seems to ramp him up even more so we need to put a stop to it.

I am aware of this in public as well so if another dog feels the need to growl at Collie I'll make sure I intervene before it needs to go further, I don't want to encourage other people's dogs to have to display undesirable behaviour.

Collie on the other hand rarely growls, unless we're talking raw meat another dog can pretty much take anything off him and as far as he's concerned it's a game so he'll start playing.

His only bugbear is when bigger dogs are standing over him which is fair enough.

[hippo]

My answers don't really fit in the poll. If my dog feels threatened by another dog, she'll give a little cry, and snap at the air if very desperate. She is very submissive though, so I will almost always step in and get the other dog away from her.

The only times she really growls is when she hears suspicious noises at night, and I pay attention to that now since twice now it's meant that someone was breaking into my car. Or if she thinks that someone is skulking, and she can't see them properly. I'm fine with that too, since I think it's entirely reasonable.

[Dogsfevr]

I don't think its that simple many people have no clue what an educational telling off is & there dogs being narky.

Many have no idea how to read the scenario of a dog growling to it escalating & some dogs that are rewarded for growling the first time get away with it again & again because people say "its okay".

Dogs being dogs isn't that simple either ,some breeds that attitude would end badly & often does because people say "there dogs let them sort it out "

Many adult dogs have never been exposed to young dogs & managing that intro is more than just turfing them out & saying they will sort it out ,that is plan irresponsible & can end in teaching the young dog bad habits .

We have dogs here that are great educators & the pups get to interact with BUT these dogs are what i consider soothing,calming & encourage an interaction that is equal pair.

I have other dogs that whilst fully accepting of new pups need there time out there growling wouldn't be educational .

This isn't a simple topic & not one that should make any person frustrated each dog should be assessed & all aspects considered regarding all the dogs interest .Breeds can play a massive part & i would hate someone to tell people just let them sort it out without understanding some breeds .

[dee lee]

I agree, it's not a one answer fits all dogs scenario.

My previous DA dog would go from growl to lunge nearly every time, I preempted the situation whenever any dog approached.

My current sweet tempered dog gets grumpy with inappropriate obnoxious play & I fully back her up. Every time it has been justified.

Usually the other dog owner is surprised by her growl & occasional snap, because she really is very sweet & gentle, but generally they are aware their dog annoyed her. I will always intervene by stopping the other dog from coming near, never punish my dog.