Worried About Golden Retriever Please Help

[Parklife]

Hi there, long time lurker first time poster. I am really worried about my 16 month old golden retriever Archie. Archie has always had a reaction when we have wormed him, he also did not like spot on flea applications we would have to have about three if us pin him down to do it. At the start of last month our vet recommended we change workers (he was in drontal) and since he as it was so difficult to give him flea applications we go for an oral fleaer. The vet recommended panoramis, which I stupidly gave him around 41/2 weeks ago trusting the vet and not going my own research. He threw the tablet up and since then has not been the same dog.Archie constantly licks his back and legs, not just one spot its like a neurological tick. He also is not interested in playing, bark pitch has changed slightly and he runs from spot to spot looking agitated. Instead of wanting to sit without he chooses slit if time to run out the back and sit in the dirt where he seems to find some comfort.

Initially we believed it to be skin issues and something was itching him however given his previous history with wormers I no longer believe this is the case. His vet did a skin scrape and has found some mild irritation. They believe the behaviour is to do with skin even though he has no evidence of fleas or red irritation. Archie was on steroids due his supposed itchiness and they did not help him at all. I took him to another vet last night for a second opinion who believes its an obsessive compulsive behaviour and not skin related, he advised we try him on clomicalm.

Neither vet believes his behaviour to be a reaction from the wormer.

My fear is that he has had some kind of neurological reaction to his wormer. I have been in touch with his breeder who believes this could also be the case. Has anyone on here had any experience with this kind of thing before and if so how was it resolved? I am petrified archie had suffered done kind if permanent damage and want my beautiful happy boy back.

Needless to say I will never give him panoramis again and will never just trusts a vets recommendation without doing my own research

[Ivory & Beau]

Not helpful and I know someone else will help but I personally don't worm or flea treat unless I have a reason to. I take on everything I vet tells me with a grain of salt. And I always research it myself.

In your case, I would be switching vets! And maybe having him allergy tested?

All the best with Archie.

[persephone]

welcome - but I'm sorry it's an upsetting time .

if Archie threw up shortly after he had the drug , and it was a recognisable tablet/chew ..then IMO he would hardly have any of the chemicals in his system ......

I suggest you remove ALL food colourings /grainsfrom his diet - feed him a grain - free kibble -or switch to just plain ol' bones/meat/veg., using a meat he has not been eating previously .

These are just my suggestions ....obviously there is other stuff to consider .

I also suggest you change vets - write down EVERYthing the dog eats ...have you changed anything in teh garden ? had teh house sprayed for insects? used a different shampoo ? ANYTHING .

Edited September 9, 2014 by persephone

[Christina]

Archie has always had a reaction when we have wormed him, he also did not like spot on flea applications we would have to have about three if us pin him down to do it.

Neither vet believes his behaviour to be a reaction from the wormer.

My fear is that he has had some kind of neurological reaction to his wormer.

Re the above parts of your post.

Given the info I have no idea why you persisted in worming or using flea stuff on him. Obviously they are doing something to him & although your vets may not have seen such a thing before that doesn't mean that it cannot occur. My own experience of taking codeine once in my life resulted in a spinning world, my going stone deaf for 12 hours & having garbled speech. Not the usual reaction.

Do not use any other products on him at all & seek the help of an allergy specialist is my advice. Allergy can cause all kinds of weird symptoms & reactions, even hallucinations.

It may be that the effects may wear off in their own time as his immune system strengthens. Good luck & hopefully it won't turn out to be anything serious.

However this is only a forum & most of us are not vets so you must consult a vet until you are happy with what they suggest & make your own decision as to their advice.

[Staffyluv]

I think panoramis is like comfortis. My old dog was fine on it but I can't use it with my current lad, as he throws them up as well.

Some dogs are fine with these and others not so much.

As he vomited it up, I wouldn't think it would have much impact on his health.

We use Advocate as a spot on for fleas, worms and heartworm treatment, it's just the one we found works for us.

The only reason we use it monthly is for the heartworm, otherwise I wouldn't treat unless I had to.

It does sound like there is something upsetting Archie.

Could there be something in the yard that is making him itch? Some plants and grasses are horrible for some dogs. Often dogs lay in dirt because it is cool, if his skin is bothering him, the cool dirt would be a relief.

Ziggy scratches every time we go to obedience training, so he gets a polaramine (antihistamine) before we go each time to lessen the itch.

It seems to be the paspalum grass that makes him itch, licking his back legs and scratching his tummy, he also lays in the dirt for comfort.

Have you given him a bath, with anything to soothe him? That may help.

I find human rescue remedy works well with Zig to calm him. Just a drop or two in his mouth or put some in his water, so he gets it all day long (if we are out and he is stressed).

I would be seeing another vet to get another opinion. Video his behaviour, write down everything, so you don't leave anything out.

Good luck, I hope you get it sorted.

[Airedaler]

I don't know where in Vic your are but if it is anywhere near the South Eastern suburbs I strongly suggest you contact Dr Ann Nevill of East West Veterinary Group in Bentleigh East.

Ann combines traditional veterinary practices with Chinese medicine and can work wonders.

[teekay]

So sorry you are having trouble with poor Archie. I, too, think you need a second opinion. By the sounds of it, if Archie is finding relief in the dirt is really does point to an irritation of some sort. This isn't a solution to the problem but certainly wouldn't do any harm. A calendula tea rinse is very soothing for irritated skin. There's a whole thread on it on here. I will post a link, may be worth a try to see if it calms Archie down at all.

Poor boy, I hope you find some answers soon.

Linky: http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/254792-o-m-g-calendula-tea-rinse/page__p__6395912__fromsearch__1#entry6395912

[Salukifan]

The first thing I'd want checked on a Golden Retriever with these symptoms is thyroid levels. What blood tests has the vet done?

Throwing steriods at the problem masks the symptoms - it doesn't change the problem.

I would not discontinue worming him but I would only treat for fleas if found on him. Millbemax is another all wormer kinder to the stomach than Drontal - you could try that.

But I'd definitely suggest you discuss some blood tests with your vet.

[Boronia]

Just make sure you have no wandering jew on your property. here is a link about it--> http://www.kalingaparkvetsurgery.com.au/index.php/news/83-faq/86-wandering-jew-and-canine-allergic-dermatitis-dogs

if you do change to a raw diet make sure you add un-pasteurised apple cider vinegar to each meal, it is excellent for the immune system

And change your vet as Airedaler suggests

[kelpiecuddles]

My dog has a neurological reaction to Advantix and can't use it but I would think that as others have said your dog wouldn't have absorbed much if he threw up. Personally if he is currently flea free I would not put anything at all on him in the way of flea/worming treatments, looking for potential problems around the garden and seeing a new vet. Basically detox him completely, test for possible issues such as thyroid and then work from there only adding back one thing at a time as an elimination process. A good vet should be able to guide you through identifying the cause.

[mita]

Whenever I had a tricky to pinpoint & diagnose problem with the pets, I'd head for our University of Qld Vet Hospital. My reason being, there were a number of special interest areas on the same spot & assessment techniques had to be state-of-the-art in order to teach students. So, If you're close enough to the University of Melbourne Vet Hospital... add a visit there to your options.

http://vh.unimelb.edu.au/

[Parklife]

Thanks so much to everyone who took the time to respond I really appreciate it. I think I will be doing the full detox route and trying to eliminate from there as to what is causing the behaviour. I spoke to the vet about allergies, she said the best way of working out what is going on is a biopsy. Surely there is a less invasive way of testing??? I am not comfortable with the idea and will not be going down this path unless absolutely necessary. I will get a blood test done though to check for thyroid or any other issues. Thanks also to the poster for the bentleigh vet recommendation, I am going to contact her and get her to look at him.

[VizslaMomma]

Thanks so much to everyone who took the time to respond I really appreciate it. I think I will be doing the full detox route and trying to eliminate from there as to what is causing the behaviour. I spoke to the vet about allergies, she said the best way of working out what is going on is a biopsy. Surely there is a less invasive way of testing??? I am not comfortable with the idea and will not be going down this path unless absolutely necessary. I will get a blood test done though to check for thyroid or any other issues. Thanks also to the poster for the bentleigh vet recommendation, I am going to contact her and get her to look at him.

A biopsy?

My Vet only ever goes to that extreme IF an elimination diet does not work.

I can not strongly enough suggest taking the option of the Bentleigh Vet.

:)

[persephone]

A biopsy for allergies ?

Ok .

Good luck with the bentleigh vet - keep us posted , :)

[Christina]

A biopsy for allergies ?

Ok .

Good luck with the bentleigh vet - keep us posted , :)

Sometimes that is done. I had one done a few months ago by the dermatologist as blood tests didn't show anything at all & I was tearing myself to pieces & had a long standing rash that didn't respond to steroids or cortisone.

The biopsy left a green scab for a month before it healed. Tests showed a slight allergy but were inconclusive. It cost $150 & I am still itching like crazy. Last resort I think.

Best of luck :)

[persephone]

ta Christina - sounds worse than the irritant!

[Boronia]

A biopsy for allergies ?

Ok .

Good luck with the bentleigh vet - keep us posted , :)

I thought the biopsy was an odd thing as well Perse so I Googled 'A biopsy for allergies in dogs' and there is heaps of info about that procedure https://www.google.c...in+dogs&spell=1 in fact it (almost) seems the normal treatment regarding allergies

[tesslc]

We had a similar issue with our dog, although it wasn't related to worming/fleaing. He was fine, no skin allergies or anything, when we first got him. At about 12 months old, he suddenly developed terrible allergies - we couldn't find any 'trigger' as such. His diet hadn't changed, we hadn't moved house or used a different shampoo. All of a sudden he had continual 'hot-spots' (infections from him itching himself crazy) and general skin irritation. We spent a lot of money on medication, creams and medicated shampoos but nothing helped. Eventually, our vet suggested stop bathing him, so we did. Thankfully Ted isn't a 'dirty' dog, and spends a lot of him inside. We only bath him every 3-4 months, and hose him down with water only if he gets muddy/dusty.

We also feed him tinned sardines 4-5 times a week with his biscuits, as well as eggs and chicken necks. His diet is pretty bland (he also has food allergies), but he now has the softest coat, and he hasn't had a single skin allergy since. I did notice when Woolies had a sardine shortage, that his belly was quite red, but I wouldn't call it 'irritated' and as soon as we got him back on the sardines, it cleared up immediately.

I would try an elimintation diet first. Also, has anything in Archie's life changed that may be causing him distress? A new neighbour or dog that may be setting him off?

[dancinbcs]

Some of the known rare but possible side effects for panoramis or comfortis are seizures and neurological problems so if he ingested any of the tablet, those are possibilities. Throwing up the tablet is a common reaction to them.

I have a dog who was perfectly healthy until I gave him the heartworm injection at about 4 years old. He started chewing his feet and legs and developed ongoing and increasing allergy problems until they peaked all over his body three years later. Following a few months of cortisone treatment that caused a whole lot of other side effects including severe digestive problems and huge coat loss, he had two solid years of multiple Chinese herbs to fix his immune system. It was a long expensive treatment but I now have a healthy normal dog.

I second the advice to see Ann Neville in Bentleigh.

[Parklife]

There has been no changes with Archie's routine or at home. I've booked in archie to see Ann, unfortunately she is away at the moment and I wasn't able to get in until October 18. In the meantime i have booked in for a blood test and will keep trying to get into the bottom of it. The reason why I think its neurological is because the behaviour is heightened when he is tired or there are exciting things happening eg, he sees us eating food. He doesn't do it when he is on walks at all he is too busy wanting to play with other dogs and sniffing. Thanks again to everyone for their help/advice, I will keep you posted on his progress!