Prey Model Raw

[juice]

So, the other thread on VANS got me looking at what PDR was and now I think I shouldn't be feeding VANS at all as dogs don't need grains, is this right?

I feed 2 of mine roo meat , and my old dally on chicken mince as he cant have red meat due to stones forming ( he has had 2 blockages over the years).

They also all get a chicken drumstick for brekky.

So, reading on PDR it seems I may have the meat content covered, and the drumsticks cover the bone ratio, so liver, where do others source it? can I just give it once a week to cover the required ratio? and other organ meats, what would people suggest?

I am concerned about all this red meat for my dally tho.

so to concur, do others just feed meat? no veggies etc?

I need an idiot guide to feeding it please :laugh:

[denali]

There is some debate about whether dogs are obligate carnivores or not, so the garin thing is debatable. Also on a case by case basis- some dogs just dont suit raw whereas y dogs are now thriving without grains.

You should join the FB group 'Raw feeding friends' as there is a document there about raw feeding for dalmations and a really good 'beginners guide to Prey model raw"

Its a super helpful place :)

If you aren't on fb, pm me and I can download and send them through to you.

I get my liver from the butcher, it is fresher than the woolworths livers.

I also give kidneys to my guys, but some can be fussy about them.

I also have a source of green tripe now. Not an organ but good to add in.

Brains, spleens, etc are all organs I have heard people feed, but have never had a source of here is Brisbane.

So i alternate between liver and kidney :) I give it once or twice per week, depending on the size of the chunks i have pre frozen. be careful giving too much liver at once as it can cause stomach upsets.

ETA: the only veggies my guys get are small tidbits from my dinner plate and not very often

Edited September 9, 2014 by denali

[Yonjuro]

Aside from the debate about grains and veggies, I will try and address some of you questions and tell you how I do it.

Yep, the basic ratio is as follows;

80% Muscle meat, this can include things like heart and tongue as they are muscles

10% Bone usually best when fed with the meat on the bone

5% Organs like kidney, lung (can't remember if lung is considered a muscle right now LOL)

5% Liver

I usually buy the organs from my butcher, I get a beef kidney and around 200g of liver. I then slice up equal meal portions of these and chuck em in separate small freezer bags and freeze em. You can buy chicken hearts, giblets and kidneys from woolies these days so that is also a good option.

You don't need to balance every meal - you roughly want to balance the ratio over a week, but I just do it for each meal as my system works for me and I don't need to remember what I fed and when :)

I also like to feed whole fish, I try to buy a fish that is equal in size to my boys meal size - which is roughly 300g (Huskys generally need less food than most other breeds due to their metabolism) I feed the fish whole with guts and scales. I make sure it has been frozen for a week or two before I feed it to kill any nasties in it.

I also buy fresh sardines for around $7kg and I freeze them separately so I can add to a meal a couple of times a week.

If you can't feed red meat, then try and add fish, rabbit, duck, turkey into your rotation of mainly chicken.

EDIT _ Denali posted while I was typing and has given great advice!

Edited September 9, 2014 by Yonjuro

[juice]

Thanks for the info.

I just popped to woolies and was surprised they do have chicken hearts and livers, lamb hearts and livers.

I could feed the dally on the chicken livers and hearts, fish is high in purine too, so not good for him either.

I do give them a tin of sardines each once a week.

I thought that hearts were classed as organ meat,so have learnt something :laugh:

I bought some hearts as they were reduced by half, so will freeze them and add them gradually.

Den, if you could download the beginners guide and the dally bit that would be lovely, I am a bit computer illiterate ( read, old!)

Edited September 9, 2014 by juice

[Yonjuro]

Hearts are pretty rich, so I don't feed a whole meal of them. but they are a good addition when used in moderation. If you can feed tinned sardines then try whole raw sardines instead as I personally believe they are better fresh frozen than tinned.

[The Spotted Devil]

juice, I feed tinned salmon as a treat - it's lower in purines than tuna so have a look at some different types of fish. I would't feed sardines. It isn't easy with the Dally diet!

Also, eggs are a great source of protein for Dalmatians.

Edited September 9, 2014 by The Spotted Devil

[juice]

ok, will try salmon instead.

[Yonjuro]

I am not being argumentative for my own interest why would tinned salmon be better than a raw sardine and wouldn't a piece of raw salmon be better than tinned? For my purposes I am taking away any convenience factor out of the equations. It is pretty easy to buy a piece of salmon and freeze into portions. :)

[juice]

sorry, I was thinking of tinned sardines, I certainly can look at getting a piece of fish, salmon or sardine and freezing it up, hadn't even thought about it.

[The Spotted Devil]

I am not being argumentative for my own interest why would tinned salmon be better than a raw sardine and wouldn't a piece of raw salmon be better than tinned? For my purposes I am taking away any convenience factor out of the equations. It is pretty easy to buy a piece of salmon and freeze into portions. :)

Hi Yonjuro

Dalmatians can only have a low-moderate purine diet. Every Dally has the gene with a propensity to form urate stones. It's kind of like gout in humans. Anchovies, sardines and tuna are all higher purine than salmon according to my sources. I feed my Dally a really good quality chicken based dry (Artemis) plus chicken frames and healthy treats. I don't feed organ meat (especially liver), beef or lamb as it is reportedly higher in purine content. Brewers yeast is another problem ingredient in dry dog food. Eggs are brilliant! Raw salmon would be fine but I have only used tinned salmon as a treat so only specified tinned. Raw salmon for human consumption is bloody expensive where I buy it from :laugh:

Hope that clears things up.

[Yonjuro]

I am not being argumentative for my own interest why would tinned salmon be better than a raw sardine and wouldn't a piece of raw salmon be better than tinned? For my purposes I am taking away any convenience factor out of the equations. It is pretty easy to buy a piece of salmon and freeze into portions. :)

Hi Yonjuro

Dalmatians can only have a low-moderate purine diet. Every Dally has the gene with a propensity to form urate stones. It's kind of like gout in humans. Anchovies, sardines and tuna are all higher purine than salmon according to my sources. I feed my Dally a really good quality chicken based dry (Artemis) plus chicken frames and healthy treats. I don't feed organ meat (especially liver), beef or lamb as it is reportedly higher in purine content. Brewers yeast is another problem ingredient in dry dog food. Eggs are brilliant! Raw salmon would be fine but I have only used tinned salmon as a treat so only specified tinned. Raw salmon for human consumption is bloody expensive where I buy it from :laugh:

Hope that clears things up.

It certainly does TSD, many thanks for the explanation I really enjoy learning things like this

And yeah, I am yet to buy fresh salmon for my boy yet! I was thinking salmon or crocodile for his upcoming birthday meal though :D

[VizslaMomma]

So, the other thread on VANS got me looking at what PDR was and now I think I shouldn't be feeding VANS at all as dogs don't need grains, is this right?

I feed 2 of mine roo meat , and my old dally on chicken mince as he cant have red meat due to stones forming ( he has had 2 blockages over the years).

They also all get a chicken drumstick for brekky.

So, reading on PDR it seems I may have the meat content covered, and the drumsticks cover the bone ratio, so liver, where do others source it? can I just give it once a week to cover the required ratio? and other organ meats, what would people suggest?

I am concerned about all this red meat for my dally tho.

so to concur, do others just feed meat? no veggies etc?

I need an idiot guide to feeding it please :laugh:

Have you got ESP?

I was considering this type of thread too.

Thank you, juice.

Going to be so great to get info.

[denali]

Ok, Lets see if this works! You cant send files in pm's didn't know that. But hopefully everyone here can get access to this!

This is for the dals specifically:

http://www.filesnack.com/files/cd1nw3jt

This is a beginners guide to PMR:

http://snk.to/f-ctkiol5p

I havent read all of the 2nd- but it seems very thorough, and haven't any of the 1st but I know many dal people in the group found it super helpful.

[The Spotted Devil]

Thanks for posting denali. I would probably follow that Dally advice with caution but, then, I am probably overly cautious. Some of the dark, leafy vegetables they mention are higher purine than others and I personally avoid beef and lamb for Zig.

[alpha bet]

So, the other thread on VANS got me looking at what PDR was and now I think I shouldn't be feeding VANS at all as dogs don't need grains, is this right?

I feed 2 of mine roo meat , and my old dally on chicken mince as he cant have red meat due to stones forming ( he has had 2 blockages over the years).

They also all get a chicken drumstick for brekky.

So, reading on PDR it seems I may have the meat content covered, and the drumsticks cover the bone ratio, so liver, where do others source it? can I just give it once a week to cover the required ratio? and other organ meats, what would people suggest?

I am concerned about all this red meat for my dally tho.

so to concur, do others just feed meat? no veggies etc?

I need an idiot guide to feeding it please :laugh:

Remember if you have a close look at VAN you will see it is oats (not wheat) as well as other legumes - the oats are also crushed and then the soaking creates a more readily edible food for the dogs.... It is not necessarily the grains but the dogs ability to process heavy grains. Wheat tends to be the more difficult of the grains.....

When I was in the states at a conference we had the chance to chat with Wendy Volhard... she has also conducted huge amounts of research and developed her own feed regime... she and David Syme seem to have developed a very similar program independently.... I feel very confident that they have a good program and certainly my dogs and the litters I've raised on VAN are proof of the value of Van diet.

I have access to good clean roo meat but find I often have to add more fats to some of the dogs to get some extra weight on.

Edited September 9, 2014 by alpha bet

[juice]

Yes spots after reading them I don't feed beef either.

I feel much happier now, i just need to tweek what i am doing atm, adding more fish, and organ meat,( not to the dallys diet tho), and less Vans i think.

It was good to know about adding liver a little at a time, not too much, and i am keen to try it as my BTs immune system is shot, and it says it helps it.

[denali]

Yes spots after reading them I don't feed beef either.

I feel much happier now, i just need to tweek what i am doing atm, adding more fish, and organ meat,( not to the dallys diet tho), and less Vans i think.

It was good to know about adding liver a little at a time, not too much, and i am keen to try it as my BTs immune system is shot, and it says it helps it.

Definitely worth a shot. My boys are all very healthy- my rescue boy who used to itch constantly and had the grossest ears (dirty and smelly) now doesnt have either of those issues!

[Yonjuro]

I also add probiotics to Ronins diet in 2 weeks on 2 weeks off cycles. So it might be worth considering this?

[VizslaMomma]

I also add probiotics to Ronins diet in 2 weeks on 2 weeks off cycles. So it might be worth considering this?

Is that as well as the Augustine products too,Yonjuro?

I am liking what I am reading.

A corner appears to have been turned. Horrible Herbert is not eating poop any more.

Paws crossed it was just a fad.

:)

[Yonjuro]

I also add probiotics to Ronins diet in 2 weeks on 2 weeks off cycles. So it might be worth considering this?

Is that as well as the Augustine products too,Yonjuro?

I am liking what I am reading.

A corner appears to have been turned. Horrible Herbert is not eating poop any more.

Paws crossed it was just a fad.

:)

Yes it is :) I will say that I don't know if it is necessary but for me if it aint bloke don't fix it. The AA super boost is pretty cheap to feed anyway. Hopefully this little bit of info on what I feed won't turn into a heated debate on the merits of AA though :)

That is great news that Horrible Herbert is not eating poo anymore

Edited September 10, 2014 by Yonjuro