Best Training Method For New Puppy

[Roova]

If things work out, I’ll be a new puppy owner come this November. I’m sooo excited and nervous, its been a long time since I’ve had a baby to look after and a world of information has opened up since joining DOL a few years ago! I apologise for the length of this post, it’s a way for me to get my thoughts down and hopefully get different opinions on best approach to follow. (Also no-one else in my family gets why I would care so I’m bursting with the need to talk about it lol).

I tend to research to the Nth degree and like other puppy owners probably freak myself out with too much information and worrying I’ll mess up. There is sooo much conflicting information to read through on DOL and the interwebs.

Puppy will be a Border Terrier and my future intentions are for obedience and agility. Im not 100% sure at this point if puppy will be on mains\limited register so not sure if showing is an option. I’ve wanted a BT for years and have had my eye on a breeder over that time so fingers crossed there’s a puppy for me in her October litter. Also fingers crossed I don’t frighten her away with my questions! She is in another state so Im trusting the right puppy will be chosen to suit me and I can only hope she doesn’t mind me inputting what I would look for if I had access to the litter (based on 'The Focussed Puppy’). I currently have a very much loved Frenchie so Im hoping the energy level between the two isn’t too much of a problem!

My main problem is choosing a training style. I haven't done obedience since I was 10 and it was very much a jerk to correct setup, and nor have I done agility before, so currently I only have online sources to learn from. I've found an obedience club which uses positive reinforcement so I might check them out one night to see what I think.

I like Kikopups approach to training but have also read Leerburg and Ian Dunbar articles. Between them all, they seem sooo different!

Leerburg and Dunbar are planets apart with one advocating puppy meets 100 people before a certain age and Leerburg advocating puppy should not be allowed to meet strangers and other dogs so they hold zero value to the dog. Leerburg also says his puppies are only ever trained outside the house and no toys are allowed inside. There is no interaction between puppies and other dogs (even family dogs) and family members don’t interact with other family members dogs. Is this approach for hard core trainers only?

I would like to think agility and obedience (for us) will be for fun and for me to have a solid relationship with my dog. I'm curious training wise, what differences might show in a dog which has been socialised to people and other animals compared to one who has been trained to focus only on me?

Another thing I’d love to know is what type of harness is recommended for a puppy as I want to avoid any chance of neck injuries etc

I’m looking forward to any opinions on the above, or trainers\training styles to take a look at. It’s lovely having visions of puppies dancing through my mind now rather than normal day to day stuff lol. If you’ve read this far, thank you and hopefully I haven't rambled too much. :)

[sheena]

Oh how lovely .....a border terrier. If ever I thought of getting a smaller dog, I would be interested in these. I know of one that does agility & he is the cutest boy. Can't help you much with your questions, but can we be promised photos as he is growing...please :) For what it is worth, my dogs are mostly clicker trained for agility & for me, its the only way to go. :)

Edited August 27, 2014 by sheena

[Kavik]

There is a lot of information out there, it can be very confusing! :)

Sport trainers in all disciplines are now advocating rewards based training, and building your reward system through relationship building/engagement games such as tug or through playing active games with food.

As to the specifics, that is personal choice. There are many international trainers which are fantastic and which conduct online courses or have produced DVDs which cover their program from puppy foundation right through to competition. I had a good look around at how various trainers were training, and the methods they used, and picked one that suited me and what I wanted to train. I found it easiest to pick one trainer who had a comprehensive training program and follow that, and introduce elements of others only if they didn't clash, so I didn't confuse myself and my dog! For me, since I train primarily competitive agility, I looked at international trainers which train agility. There are some differences in obedience and agility, and some differences in the way these trainers approach some aspects of training, so it pays to do some research into it.

Some agility trainers which have great programs include:

Susan Garrett

Silvia Trkman

Greg Derrett

Justine Davenport

Linda Mecklenburg

And many others

I don't compete in obedience, so don't have as many trainers which do this primarily in my repertoire, but the main one which comes to mind is

Michael Ellis

As to the socialisation thing, that is complicated, and again lots of different opinions! I am still undecided as to what I think about neutralisation vs socialisation, and in a way think it depends on the dog.

Also think about the background and goals of the trainers. Leerburg comes from a background of training protection dogs, and while he has mellowed considerably, some of his perspective is still from training that type of temperament.

Hope that helps!

Edited August 27, 2014 by Kavik

[megan_]

Leerburg and dundar have different aims: leer burg wants to produce top working dogs, Dunbar wants to produce well adjusted pets.

What do you want to archive with your pet? Find someone with a similar goal and go from there.

From whst I understand, leer burg doesn't mean. "Don't err strangers" he means don't let other people coo over , play with your pup.

[sheena]

Have you had a look at this link I put up Kelly's online puppy club. Kelly Gill is one of our homegrown success stories & competes in agility & obedience & does TV commercials. The puppy classes, are going to be running on a regular basis. Even if you wern't interested in doing one of her puppy courses, she is a very nice lady & you may be able to email your question to her. :)

A copy & paste from her page

Kelly has over 21 years experience as a veterinary nurse, puppy trainer and dog class instructor. She is a highly sought after animal trainer for television and film. 140328-MG5_5134-E-ZF-2705-22440-1-001-001

Dog Training - Kelly has been an Instructor for her local Obedience club & running puppy classes for 20yrs.

Kelly uses ‘Positive Reinforcement’ training methods & loves the joy of owning dogs who love to learn. Her own dogs are enthusiastic, engaged, happy and extremely keen to be her training buddies. Kelly keeps up to date with the latest research plus information about behaviour and training by attending, and organising, seminars and workshops on a wide variety of subjects. She runs Seminars on positive training & Motivation for the Competition dog.

Competing – Kelly completes with her dogs nearly every weekend and has achieved over 250 Obedience & Agility Titles. She has twice achieved the prestigious title of Obedience Champion. Kelly’s dogs are very motivated & love to work with her.

Events – Kelly and her team of ‘Wonderdogs’ participate regularly at Pet Expos, The Royal Easter Show, Dog Day Outs, The Dog Lovers Show and more, providing entertainment and education for the public.

Media work– Kelly has trained animals for hundreds of tv shows, commercials and film roles. Some of these include Jeep car commercial, Kraft Cheese TV commercial, RSVP TV commercial, Refresh Plus TV Commercial, Masters Home improvements TV commercial, Virgin Credit Card TV commercial, Austar TV commercial, Greater Building Society TV commercial, Playschool, Liquid Nails TV Commercial, Sunbeam iron TV commercial, Klugger Car TV commercial, Scotch Tape commercial, Behind Mansion Walls, Daily Telegraph, The Great Gatsby movie, Commonwealth bank TV Ad, Veda Commercial, Womens weekly summer TV special,

Kelly lives on a property in the Hunter Valley, NSW and shares her life at home with 11 border collies, a Jack Russell, two cats and a miniature pony.

Edited August 27, 2014 by sheena

[huski]

Hey Roova, we wrote a blog post just recently that will give you an insight into how we approach raising and training competition and working pups.

http://blog.k9pro.com.au/distraction-proof-your-pup/

Here is a video of one of my dog's puppies demonstrating how our approach to socialisation works and the benefit over time.

I advise using the time you have now to do lots of research and as Kavik suggested, finding an approach that will work well for you.

There is heaps of information out there now and lots of different ways to approach training competition work. The most important part is having a clear goal, and setting a strong foundation in your pup from the beginning. We don't train a lot of formal work early on, at least not until pups have a really solid foundation in drive work and a great relationship with the handler. When you have this solid, teaching new things is easy.

Edited August 27, 2014 by huski

[huski]

Leerburg and Dunbar are planets apart with one advocating puppy meets 100 people before a certain age and Leerburg advocating puppy should not be allowed to meet strangers and other dogs so they hold zero value to the dog. Leerburg also says his puppies are only ever trained outside the house and no toys are allowed inside. There is no interaction between puppies and other dogs (even family dogs) and family members don’t interact with other family members dogs. Is this approach for hard core trainers only?

Just a quick note regarding this, when we talk about neutralisation, it is still socialisation but is about setting a low positive or neutral value for distractions such as other dogs and people. We expose our puppies to lots of new experiences, but they don't learn to gain reward from them.

We don't run our pups with other pups or adult dogs, but we will expose them to other dogs that are neutralised. We have a longer video demonstrating how this works here so you can see the sorts of exposure we give pups to other dogs;

When you are raising a competition dog they will need to learn to work around distractions like people and other dogs without engaging them, for things like the SFE, group stays etc. If you raise your pup to have a high value for other people and dogs, this will be something you have to address later on in training. If you raised your pup to have a low positive or neutral value for other dogs, then they won't be a distraction you have to over come later on.

We find this approach works for both pet owners and people raising high end working and competition dogs. A really common reason pet owners come to see us for training is that their dog has too high a value for things like other dogs, and won't recall reliably, won't walk on a leash nicely around distraction etc. So it isn't something that only benefits 'hard core trainers' - though obviously any training approach you take needs to align with the goals you have for your pup.

Edited August 27, 2014 by huski

[Roova]

Thank you so much everyone! Your comments have really helped and I'm looked forward to watching the clips and looking up the trainers.

Is it common nowadays to learn obedience through a club or do a lot of people teach themselves via online courses, websites or meeting up with smaller groups of like minded people to train together?

I've read a few negatives about group training at clubs so don't want to start on the wrong foot.

Also would clean run be a good place to start for puppy gear and training tools? Thanks again :)

[raineth]

ok, I don't do competitive obedience or agility so you can take what I'm saying with a grain of salt :)

If you can find a good training school then I think that's a really good way to go. That doesn't mean you can't do your online stuff too.

Going to a good club can give youg an outsider's perspective on your dog training, can provide you with some structure and make your dog familiar with an environment that is similar to a competition environment.

I definitely agree that having a dog with a low value for other dogs and people makes life so much easier.

I think a good training club can also assist with this.

good luck with your new puppy :)

[Kavik]

I love Clean Run! :)

They have great DVDs from most of the trainers that I have mentioned, and lots and lots of toys!

[huski]

If you can find a great club that suits what you need and the goals you have that is awesome. IME though most obedience clubs are geared towards pet owners, so I would look at what is available in your area and talk to them about your goals as a competitor. Ask them who at the club trials successfully and talk to these people, they are the ones who would have the best advice and if they instruct or mentor other competitors that could be beneficial to you.

I would also go to classes and any club trials and watch which competitors dogs work in a way that inspires you.

If you go to a club and can't see any dogs working in the way you would like your dog to work, it's probably not going to be a good place to go to.

ETA: personally club training has never worked for me, which is why I looked elsewhere when I started out.

Edited August 27, 2014 by huski

[Kavik]

Agility is tricky in a way that obedience isn't - you need all that equipment! Unless you have a LOT of space and a LOT of money, you will need to go to a club at some point to be able to access competition grade equipment and work on your handling. Unless you decide to get private lessons with other competitors who do have competition grade equipment (there are several around Sydney who do this) but it is a lot more expensive than a club.

That being said, you can do a LOT of your foundation work at home with minimal or even no equipment, before you go to a club. Although I own a bit of equipment, most of the time I only really need a couple of jumps to practice the handling I am working on. You can train your contacts on stairs, or a travel plank that you can make at home, and body awareness work makes up the majority of what I train at home, which doesn't require proper agility equipment.

[Cleo's Corgwyn]

Ime been accessing a lot of training online at the Denise Fenzi Academy. She will even offer agility classes soon. But I use them to supplement training at a local positive Club

[Roova]

More reading and more questions now lol. I'm curious how to deal with treating a puppy using higher value food than kibble but still providing nutritious meals.

If treats are to replace part of puppies meals and you're doing lots of tiny training events I would imagine little bellies could become full quickly?

I've been dehydrating liver and heart which can be broken into pretty tiny pieces but I image I'll also use beef and chicken etc too. If I'm then stuffing kongs with kibble for during the day as a distraction\boredom buster when does puppy eat his 'main' meals, in this case barf? I could imagine a porky puppy before long lol.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Roova

[Kavik]

I'm using dog rolls (semi-moist food) as treats for Nitro :) Can't remember which brand at the top of my head. I experimented with a few to find one which remains firm when cut into small cubes. Lots of different 'flavours' to choose from :)

[The Spotted Devil]

Cooked chicken is a great training treat too. I have a pup here for a little while and I will put her dry food ration for the day in a container and use that to train around the house. I pull out the big guns when we go into a high distraction area. She absolutely gets to play with my adults but I interrupt that with lots of recall training.