Exposing Whippet To Mini Schnauzer With Fear Aggression

[Mum to Emma]

I think it's pretty well a universal characteristic of whippets that they're a sensitive breed that can frighten easily and don't respond confidentially to other dogs that display aggression. My parents have recently adopted a 10 month old mini-schnauzer which was initially very fearful (hiding and defecating whenever people entered the house). Unfortunately this has progressed to fear aggression - barking madly and charging/snapping at the heels of any human or dog who enters the house. This has caused some friction in the human family because I don't think I should subject my whippet to such a confrontation every time we visit. My parent's response is "Oh, she'll quieten down" and they are make some effort to get her out of this habit by immediately locking her away when she starts up with this kind of aggression. But since this change in the mini-schnauzer's behaviour, my dog has to be pulled through the front gate and clings to me inside, whereas he used to enjoy visits and would happily and confidently explore every corner (and counter) of the house.

Should I continue to subject my whippet to this situation which is, for him, frightening in the hope that they'll get used to each other? Even if the mini-schnauzer's behaviour approves, I very much doubt whether she'll ever welcome him calmly - it's not in the nature of the breed.

By the way, does anyone think that mini-schnauzer breeders need to address the temperament issue? This is the fifth the family has owned, and their temparment as a breed seems to be all over the shop. Some are friendly (if in your face) while others are little balls of fury. I'd considered owning one at some stage, but the rage/aggression some display really puts me off. Oh, and these are very well bred dogs from top Vic breeders.

[persephone]

if it were my dog - NO. It's not fair to either of them

it will do your dog damage which could also lead to problems :(

I very much doubt whether she'll ever welcome him calmly - it's not in the nature of the breed.

We must have met very different dogs , brought up in different ways :)

[Rebanne]

I wouldn't be taking my dog to visit, unfair to both

[twodoggies2001]

You answered your own question by saying you didn't think you should subject your dog to such confrontation. Why would you?

I have had 4 mini schnauzers over time and none of them have had a bad temperament. All have had sweet natures without a bad bone in their body. I have yet to meet a nasty one. Perhaps its the way your family is bringing them up in their home. I don't mean this in a nasty way. My current two will welcome any other dog into their home as well as human visitors and are just wonderful with my grandchildren.

[schnauzer]

Minis are known to have a wonderful temperament - fun loving, active, forever the clown and highly trainable.

Your parents should not be locking the dog away, but rather addressing the fearful behavior.

Whilst they are retraining their dog, I definitely would not take your whippet there. They will need to work hard with a behaviourist, if they do not have the training/rehab skills for a fear aggressive dog.

As with every dog, it is as good as its owner and the time and training one puts into the dog.

I take my three ex rescue dogs to a busy café every day, and they will sit and stay, they do not bark or show interest to any dog nearby. They will happily wag their tails at everyone who pats them.

It is in the nature of the breed to greet other dogs/people very calmly - it is all about the owner and the training. :)

[schnauzer]

ETA: Where did they get her from? If it was from a rescue have they been contacted? I would be seeking their assistance with the costs of rehabilitation as they shouldn't have rehomed a dog with issues that severe to start with.

I am also astounded that a dog that hides/defecates/shows aggression has been rehomed. SO wrong.

Poor little dog.....

Edited August 24, 2014 by schnauzer

[WreckitWhippet]

Don't take your Whippet to their house, it's not worth it.

[Salukifan]

I think it's pretty well a universal characteristic of whippets that they're a sensitive breed that can frighten easily and don't respond confidentially to other dogs that display aggression.

No, it isn't. I can think of quite a few Whippets that would respond to aggression in kind. The idea that all Whippets are shrinking violets is a myth. If a small dog did that to one of my entire boys, it would be on its back in a flash. He doesn't brook that kind of behaviour.

Don't subject either dog to a situation that is clearly very stressful for them both. Leave your dog at home when you visit.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Trishm]

Don't subject your whippet to this, its too stressful and not fair to him !!

[Little Gifts]

The only time any dog should be around the mini schnauzer is under the strict supervision of a trained behaviouralist, in a controlled environment, trying to assist the fear aggressive dog to re-learn its responses. This dog would have to be a bomb proof kind of dog used to being used for this kind of purpose.

So of course you shouldn't have your dog around their dog. It is not going to help either dog at this point in time. You know your dog so don't do things with him that you know wont be good for him. Likewise your parents are not going to help their girl by locking it up and not seeking professional advice.

[Mum to Emma]

Unfortunately I don't think they're as concerned as they should because she's tiny. It's the old case of the little dog getting away with behaviour that would ring MAJOR alarm bells if she was a GSD. The next dog she snaps at may not be a submissive whippet. Mum carries her around like a cat, which doesn't help!

I don't know if the breeder realised just how fearful she is but I personally was concerned when we collected her because while most of her other mini schnauzers were jumping all over us, this one ran away and hid when put on the ground. And her mother stood back and barked constantly, backing away if anyone tried to get near her (which makes me think part of this is in the bloodline).

Of course, she's in a different environment now because she's not surrounded by half a dozen other dogs. Perhaps that's why the behaviour has changed. My parents just say she's become territorial, and she does calm down after a few minutes. But, yes, there's no way I'll be subjecting my boy to her again at least until such time as she stops snapping at anyone who walks through the door.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

A behaviouralist is the answer but that's only if your mum and dad would cooperate.

No matter what, leave your Whippet at home until things have improved - if they ever do.

[Maddy]

I think it's pretty well a universal characteristic of whippets that they're a sensitive breed that can frighten easily and don't respond confidentially to other dogs that display aggression.

No, it isn't. I can think of quite a few Whippets that would respond to aggression in kind. The idea that all Whippets are shrinking violets is a myth. If a small dog did that to one of my entire boys, it would be on its back in a flash. He doesn't brook that kind of behaviour.

Don't subject either dog to a situation that is clearly very stressful for them both. Leave your dog at home when you visit.

I'd agree with this. The OH's Shitty Whippet is a very bold dog and will put the idiot greyhound (who is three times her size) in his place if he's playing too rough. If anything, I'd say she's actually a lot more confident than many of the greyhounds I see.

Not that the whippet's temperament really has much to do with the situation- I don't think it's appropriate to put any dog in a position where it's likely going to trigger a negative reaction in the resident dog.

[megan_]

I wouldn't be taking my dog to visit, unfair to both

Agree . I have a fear aggressive MS too and I don't let other dogs visit .

The MS will not just calm down either . She has learn aggression = people leave you alone, ie it works.

I think your parents need some help with the MS- do you think they'd see a professional?

[Mum to Emma]

I wouldn't be taking my dog to visit, unfair to both

Agree . I have a fear aggressive MS too and I don't let other dogs visit .

The MS will not just calm down either . She has learn aggression = people leave you alone, ie it works.

I think your parents need some help with the MS- do you think they'd see a professional?

No, although I did suggest to them that that is what they need. This text from the ASPCA website describes her behaviour perfectly -

Defensive Aggression

Closely related to fear aggression is defensive aggression. The primary difference is the strategy adopted by the dog. Defensively aggressive dogs are still motivated by fear, but instead of trying to retreat, they decide that the best defense is a good offense. Dogs who are defensively aggressive exhibit a mixture of fearful and offensive postures. (Please see our article, Canine Body Language, for more information about what defensive, aggressive dogs look like.) They may initially charge at a person or another dog who frightens them, barking and growling. Regardless of whether the victim freezes or advances, the defensively aggressive dog often delivers the first strike. Only if the victim retreats is the defensively aggressive dog likely to abort an attack. Male and female dogs are equally prone to defensive aggression. It’s slightly more common in adults than in puppies simply because dogs need to have some confidence to use this defensive strategy, and puppies are usually less confident than adults.