Best Border Collie Breeders In Qld And Nsw?

[Scarlet]

One other thing which might be work asking a breeder is any other possible health issues which have cropped up in there lines. There are a few problems which are becoming more apparent in the breed which while can't be tested for genetically at this point still may have a genetic basis. A good breeder will be open to mentioning any problems which may exist in their lines. I unfortunately got a youngster with BC collapse and wasn't even aware the condition existed in the breed until I started observing things happening in my girl and making comments and people mentioning the condition to me. The researchers would have me believe that there are more BCs in Australia with the condition then people might otherwise be prepared to agree.

In my girls case it was just one of those unfortunate things but having had the issue come up and a few other probable genetic issues I would be asking more questions of any future breeder about any other conditions which may have occurred.

OMG my son has spent a few thousand dollars having his BC tested for a range of things as the vets have no idea what is wrong with her. It's BC collapse as I've just googled and checked it out. Now to let teh vets know.

[sheena]

There are always plenty of BC litters and most good breeders do not ask for deposits until you have seen the litter and they have decided that they have a suitable puppy for your situation. A lot of good breeders do not take deposits at all. Good breeders ask lots of questions about your family and lifestyle so they can match the right puppy to you. Price should be around $1000 - $1200 but a few are now starting to creep up towards $1500. Anything higher than that is overpriced and steer well away from anyone who charges different prices for different colours. Colour and markings are of no importance in the breed. The parents of the puppies must be DNA tested for CL, TNS and CEA as well as hip and elbow scored. If the breeder cannot show you all those results for both parents, look elsewhere. Good BC breeders always breed for a purpose, show, herding or performance sports and always breed with the intention of keeping a puppy for themselves first to further the breed. If they cannot tell you all about what they compete in and their success with their dogs, look elsewhere. Anyone churning out litters of family pets, all to be sold on limit register, is doing the wrong thing by the breed. Some BCs do make great family pets for the right families but they are first and foremost a serious working breed and should never be bred with just the aim of making them pets. Many shonky breeders have on their website that they breed family pets. Many of these breeders say they are breeding healthy dogs but have no idea what a soundly constructed dog should be built like and soundness in body, limb and movement is as vital to health as the parents health tests so stay away from those. As you do not want a performance dog your best bet is show breeder who is breeding for dogs that are healthy and have great temperaments as both are vital to show ring success.

Personally I never sell to anyone who has not owned a demanding breed before but some breeders will sell to novice dog owners. I always had a list of people looking for their second or third BC or had owned other breeds like Dobermans and GSDs before. Borders are high energy dogs that need lots of training and mental stimulation as well as a fair amount of exercise. They need you to be one step ahead of them, or they train their owners. In the right home they are the best dog in the world and the easiest to train. In the wrong home they can be a disaster. So read up, go to shows and obedience trials and meet as many BCs as you can to get a feel for the sort of dog you want. These are also places you can meet the better quality breeders. If you want to PM me at any time to ask if I recommend any particular breeders I am happy to do that. About a third of the breeders listed on DOL are what I consider good quality show and performance breeders, the rest are just pumping out pets in large numbers.

All ANKC registered BCs are long haired and most are black and white. The wait for a good chocolate one could be years as hardly any of the reputable breeders have the chocolate gene in their lines so it would be easiest to go for a classic black and white.

Not quite sure if I agree with this. There are some lovely chocolate & white & other colours around that are registered BC's. If you are talking Mains registered, then the OP has about as much chance as a snowball in hell, of being able to buy a Mains Registered BC. Almost all or them are sold on Limited Register & that certainly doesn't mean that the dog is inferior, or is not healthy or doesn't have a lovely temperament. It just simply means the dog can't be shown or bred from, which is fine by most people. :)

As the OP is not after a performance dog and show bred litters have been suggested, the chance of getting a chocolate from show lines is almost zero as hardly any of the show lines have the choc gene. At least 90% of show dogs are black and white. There are some chocs in the performance dogs and they are a dime a dozen from those who breed for nothing but colour, so lots of chocs around but very few from good breeders. In the show lines black is most common, followed by red, then blue. Only about 3 or 4 show breeders in the entire country have choc dogs in their lines at all and only have choc puppies by chance as none breed just to get the colour.

I agree that most of the show dogs are B & W. That's a lot to do with the fact that judges are bias towards them. Go overseas & I am sure it would be a bit different. BUT what you said was that most of the ANKC registered dogs are B & W, which could lead the OP into thinking that to get a healthy registered BC she will have to go B & W. I really don't understand why all this bias against coloured dogs. In the circle that I mix in (agility) if you look at the line up of BC's, the coloured ones outnumber the B & W by far. I have two beautiful coloured BC's & they have never had a day sick in their lives. Of all the BC's on DOL, I seem to notice that the ones who come up with the most health problems seem to be B & W. It's strange that in other breeds like the labrador, there is no bias against blacks & browns. There are some lovely choclate BC's coming in from overseas now. :)

[Vickie]

In the circle that I mix in (agility) if you look at the line up of BC's, the coloured ones outnumber the B & W by far.

I'm not sure that's true, but if it were, it's only because of the volume of coloured sports bred dogs that 3-4 breeders produce for agility.

35% of BCs at the recent agility nationals were produced/owned by 4 breeders who primarily breed colour. I bet that percentage would have been a lot higher at the Sydney nationals.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Vickie

[VizslaMomma]

Just wondering - does anyone have much information about buying a puppy from another state and having the puppy transported by plane? I'm considering a few breeders in the Sydney area, and I just wondered whether it would be more stressful for the puppy to be transported 1.5 hours on a plane or 11 hours in a car (Sydney to Brisbane). I've found some breeders in Qld who look great, but if I do decide to go with one in NSW I just wanted to know the options.

Thanks

Majority of breeders have a lot of experience in sending puppies interstate.

Sometimes a litter mate may be going to the same city. Both puppies get to travel together.

THe puppies get a certain sized crate to travel in when flying. Overall they do not get too stressed. Will depend on the puppy of course.

My friend in WA got a Vizsla from QLD. He 'sang' the entire flight. Yodelled non-stop. Majority of passengers howled along with him in fits of laughter.

We drove back from QLD to NWS via the Pacific Hwy in mid January. We broke the journey Morayfield to Yamba. Stayed two nights with family. Then home the bext day.

Puppy had a great trip. No accidents nor was car sick.

Again, many breeders have let their puppies have outings in cars.

You can decide what will suit you & puppy best. We collected ours because I wanted to visit the adult dogs of the kennel again. Meant we had a lovely bonding time.

Sounds exciting for you all.

:D

[dancinbcs]

In the circle that I mix in (agility) if you look at the line up of BC's, the coloured ones outnumber the B & W by far.

I'm not sure that's true, but if it were, it's only because of the volume of coloured sports bred dogs that 3-4 breeders produce for agility.

35% of BCs at the recent agility nationals were produced/owned by 4 breeders who primarily breed colour. I bet that percentage would have been a lot higher at the Sydney nationals.

I did leave a word out in my comments. I meant to say "ETHICAL" ANKC breeders. Yes in the agility world there are a lot of chocs as a couple of ETHICAL ANKC breeders, breed for choc AND performance and tend to sell the whole litter to agility homes. Only one also breeds to the breed standard as well and has dogs who could be shown. The good ones don't produce a lot of litters, you just get to see a most of the dogs they breed as nearly all of every litter go to agility homes. Add in the far inferior chocs at agility trials, bought from those who breed for no purpose other than colour and there are a lot of chocs at agility. There are plenty of other assorted colours around, bred from inferior dogs by UNETHICAL ANKC breeders just cashing in on colour but they aren't from ETHICAL ANKC breeders. Even with them breeding so much color there are still more blacks everywhere, apart from the agility world. There are a lot more show dogs than agility ones and for every show dog there would would be an average of about 4-5 black and white litter mates in pet homes as only one or two of a show litter, usually make it into the showring. A few go for performance but most end up as pets. The reason there is more of some illnesses in blackS is because there simply are more of them. It has also been noticed that some illnesses that are very rare in blacks, are becoming alarming common in chocs. Of course the colour has zilch to do with illness but the lines the dogs come from do affect what health issues they may get and the gene pool that produces choc is alarmingly small.

[megan_]

There are ethical breeders of performance dogs who wouldn't do well in shows. They have great structure, drive etc - but not enough coat etc. just line a well bred w/ l mal wouldn't do well at a show . Doesn't make their breeder unethical or not breeding to the standard.

but all of that is OT because the OP doesn't wasn't a sporting dog.

[Agility Dogs]

There are ethical breeders of performance dogs who wouldn't do well in shows. They have great structure, drive etc - but not enough coat etc. just line a well bred w/ l mal wouldn't do well at a show . Doesn't make their breeder unethical or not breeding to the standard.

but all of that is OT because the OP doesn't wasn't a sporting dog.

[Vickie]

Paws22,

Just remember, you are getting responses from passionate & knowledgeable and sometimes biased people on here. Many of us want to protect the breed (and sometimes we want to protect different things to each other), so will have strong views.

What is ethical to some will not be ethical to others.

I know Border Collies who are wonderful pets from show, working, performance, pet & colour breeders.I also know Border Collies who are shocking pets from all the above groups.

My best advice is to get to know some breeders & spend time with their dogs. You will likely fall in love with a certain type or a certain line...then your choice is easy. And...whatever you get, you will love because Border Collies are the best :)

Edited August 27, 2014 by Vickie

[sheena]

There are ethical breeders of performance dogs who wouldn't do well in shows. They have great structure, drive etc - but not enough coat etc. just line a well bred w/ l mal wouldn't do well at a show . Doesn't make their breeder unethical or not breeding to the standard.

but all of that is OT because the OP doesn't wasn't a sporting dog.

:thumbsup:

[sheena]

Paws22,

Just remember, you are getting responses from passionate & knowledgeable and sometimes biased people on here. Many of us want to protect the breed (and sometimes we want to protect different things to each other), so will have strong views.

What is ethical to some will not be ethical to others.

I know Border Collies who are wonderful pets from show, working, performance, pet & colour breeders.I also know Border Collies who are shocking pets from all the above groups.

My best advice is to get to know some breeders & spend time with their dogs. You will likely fall in love with a certain type or a certain line...then your choice is easy. And...whatever you get, you will love because Border Collies are the best :)

And when a breeder advertises that their pups are for "pet" homes, that simply means that they are not for showing or breeding. It doesn't mean that they are inferior or are from dodgy breeders. My dogs are first & foremost, pets & companions, they keep me healthy & active, both mentally & physically as we do active things together. They are not from "show breeders", but they are very healthy dogs with lovely temperaments & I wouldn't trade them for the world. I love the colours, & I like the shorter coat of the chocs. But as Vickie points out....you will love your dog regardless of its colour, because Border collies are what they are :) & it wont be your last. Most breeders will help you choose a pup that suits you.

[Vickie]

And when a breeder advertises that their pups are for "pet" homes, that simply means that they are not for showing or breeding. It doesn't mean that they are inferior or are from dodgy breeders.

Not true. Some dodgy breeders with inferior dogs DO advertise pups for pet homes.I think you missed my point. My point is that you can't guarantee the ideal pet based on the DOL classification of the breeder.

My point is that your best chance of finding a dog to suit you is to get to know the breeder & their dogs.

My first 3 BC's were chosen without knowledge of the breeder or their dogs. 1 was a great dog, the other 2 had issues that made them not great pets. My last 5 were chosen with a lot of knowledge about the breeders & the lines. There have been no surprises & they have each been exactly what I wanted.

Despite that...I have loved each of them the same and they have each taken me on a different journey.

[sheena]

And when a breeder advertises that their pups are for "pet" homes, that simply means that they are not for showing or breeding. It doesn't mean that they are inferior or are from dodgy breeders.

Not true. Some dodgy breeders with inferior dogs DO advertise pups for pet homes.I think you missed my point. My point is that you can't guarantee the ideal pet based on the DOL classification of the breeder.

My point is that your best chance of finding a dog to suit you is to get to know the breeder & their dogs.

My first 3 BC's were chosen without knowledge of the breeder or their dogs. 1 was a great dog, the other 2 had issues that made them not great pets. My last 5 were chosen with a lot of knowledge about the breeders & the lines. There have been no surprises & they have each been exactly what I wanted.

Despite that...I have loved each of them the same and they have each taken me on a different journey.

OK...Vickie...I will rewrite it to what I really mean :) When a breeder advertises that the pups they have available are for "pet" homes, this could simply mean that they will be on Limited Register & not for breeding or showing (Mains Register). It doesn't always mean that they are inferior or that the breeders are dodgy. It doesn't mean they can't compete in dogs sports etc. I agree....get to know some breeders & maybe go to shows etc. My first BC was bought simply off the internet (no problems, though, as she is perfect :) ) I bought my second dog AFTER I knew what I wanted, ie a dog suitable for agility. I got to know the breeder & her dogs, & he too is perfect. I hope the OP doesn't go off & buy a dog from a pet shop or someones "oops" litter, because we have thrown this whole thing into the "too hard basket". It can be very mind boggling for a first timer :)

Edited August 27, 2014 by sheena

[Mystiqview]

Whether the dog is bred for show or sports (agility, showing, herding or obedience etc). First and foremost they should be GREAT pets. They need to be happy, healthy and well adjusted members of the community. They should not be aggressive, overaly timid, and not be a nuisance to neighbors and other animals.

With litters we breed, not all pups will make it into either the show or sporting field. Those that don't make it have to go somewhere and that is into a loving pet home where it should be loved and well cared for. There are some really great show or sporting potentials "going to waste" in lovely pet homes. Why? The sporting world in both fields are very competitive.

There are some very shonky breeders there who do just breed for colour. Some do sports some don't. I have seen some dogs proclaimed to be excellent sports prospects with very bad conformation. A few have been chocolate, some Merle or other colours. Some have been from breeders who other members on this forum thread have got their dogs from. Some from others breeding for colour.

Many colour breeders claim their dogs have excellent conformation. Some show breeders are the same - their dogs are the best thing since sliced bread. Some know what conformation is, others would not know conformation is if they tripped over it. A good breeder should be able to tell you the good parts of their dogs conformation and the parts that are lacking or need to be improved in their breeding program. Regardless of whether they breed for show or sport.

A sporting dog should have equal or better conformation to a show dog as due to some sports such as agility there are extra pressures and demands on the joints and structure of the animal.

I will disagree with Karen in that black and whites are healthier than their coloured counterparts based on colour. As ness has said, there are "new" issues appearing in the breed that have not been there before. Maybe they were, but through social media and research they seem to be more prevalent when they may not be. Cancer, auto immune and lymphoma issues seem to be on the increase as a breed.

Immune issues are in the chocolate lines due to some people recklessly doubling up on certain dogs. In saying this, there are other issues in certain lines and it is often said "don't double up on XYZ dog too many times."

There has been a great increase in those starting up breeding colour. One cannot escape that fact. The fact also that many of the colours are also not recognized in the breed standard is why more are in the sporting field on the limit register than in the show ring. People also want something different from the boring black and white.

The movement started years ago with "Toby the Wonderdog" people wanted a dog, just like Toby. So the Chocolate fad started and that was the beginning of people breeding to cater to true demand for colour. Now it is coming across all colors as people want Merle's sables and reds and their variances.

Any breeding program is based on the reason for breeding behind it. Fact is, a coloured dog can fetch twice the amount of a black and white.

With reference to the comment of new imports coming in. Yes this is true- particularly from NZ. However it should be noted that many of the dogs being imported are from AUSTRALIAN LINES. (ISDS dogs aside). So while they are imported, the lines are not. There is some NZ lines in there, however we also have a percentage of NZ lines here too.

[rusty&biscuit]

Hi Paws22, welcome :)

There has been some wonderful advice given here, and well done on you for going down the registered breeder route :) BC's are a wonderful breed. I don't believe that to raise a well adjusted BC that you 'have' to compete or take part in any dog sports. Will they enjoy it? Of course. But majority of people I know who own BC's simply socialise, go to obedience classes, and enjoy good walks and games of fetch on the beach on in the park. They couldn't care less for dog sports, but the BC's don't care as long as they are spending time with their 'people' :) I think the key is to find a GOOD breeder, who will match a pup to your lifestyle. I have seen very nice dogs from 'Etherial' (I think that's how it's spelled) and can highly recommend dogs from Delgany, up here in NQ. The dog's I've seen out of Delgany seem very stable, sociable, and well adjusted dogs who also do quite well in the show ring :)

Hope I've helped, good luck in your search...and once you get a pup, pics are compulsory ;)

[sheena]

Whether the dog is bred for show or sports (agility, showing, herding or obedience etc). First and foremost they should be GREAT pets. They need to be happy, healthy and well adjusted members of the community. They should not be aggressive, overaly timid, and not be a nuisance to neighbors and other animals.

With litters we breed, not all pups will make it into either the show or sporting field. Those that don't make it have to go somewhere and that is into a loving pet home where it should be loved and well cared for. There are some really great show or sporting potentials "going to waste" in lovely pet homes. Why? The sporting world in both fields are very competitive.

There are some very shonky breeders there who do just breed for colour. Some do sports some don't. I have seen some dogs proclaimed to be excellent sports prospects with very bad conformation. A few have been chocolate, some Merle or other colours. Some have been from breeders who other members on this forum thread have got their dogs from. Some from others breeding for colour.

Many colour breeders claim their dogs have excellent conformation. Some show breeders are the same - their dogs are the best thing since sliced bread. Some know what conformation is, others would not know conformation is if they tripped over it. A good breeder should be able to tell you the good parts of their dogs conformation and the parts that are lacking or need to be improved in their breeding program. Regardless of whether they breed for show or sport.

A sporting dog should have equal or better conformation to a show dog as due to some sports such as agility there are extra pressures and demands on the joints and structure of the animal.

I will disagree with Karen in that black and whites are healthier than their coloured counterparts based on colour. As ness has said, there are "new" issues appearing in the breed that have not been there before. Maybe they were, but through social media and research they seem to be more prevalent when they may not be. Cancer, auto immune and lymphoma issues seem to be on the increase as a breed.

Immune issues are in the chocolate lines due to some people recklessly doubling up on certain dogs. In saying this, there are other issues in certain lines and it is often said "don't double up on XYZ dog too many times."

There has been a great increase in those starting up breeding colour. One cannot escape that fact. The fact also that many of the colours are also not recognized in the breed standard is why more are in the sporting field on the limit register than in the show ring. People also want something different from the boring black and white.

The movement started years ago with "Toby the Wonderdog" people wanted a dog, just like Toby. So the Chocolate fad started and that was the beginning of people breeding to cater to true demand for colour. Now it is coming across all colors as people want Merle's sables and reds and their variances.

Any breeding program is based on the reason for breeding behind it. Fact is, a coloured dog can fetch twice the amount of a black and white.

With reference to the comment of new imports coming in. Yes this is true- particularly from NZ. However it should be noted that many of the dogs being imported are from AUSTRALIAN LINES. (ISDS dogs aside). So while they are imported, the lines are not. There is some NZ lines in there, however we also have a percentage of NZ lines here too.

There are also some coming in from Europe ATM. What concerns me a bit, is a trend that seems to be developing, where people want a 400 dog for agility & more & more tiny dogs are turning up that look so brittle (if that's the right word). I noticed this mainly up at the Nationals.