Best Border Collie Breeders In Qld And Nsw?

[Paws22]

Hi everyone :)

I've always had my heart set on getting a Border Collie and finally feel that I am ready to own one. I would be looking to purchase in 8-12 months time. I have looked at many breeders, but it is very difficult to know which are reputable. I've gone on to a few waiting lists for dogs in Queensland, but a few of them asked for an upfront deposit before the dogs were even bred (I can understand paying a deposit once the puppies are born, but before they're even bred??). When I politely queried if the deposit is refundable if there are no males in the litter (as I want a male pup) the breeder never replied and I just got the feeling that this particular breeder was more interested in selling dogs than matching the right pup to the right person. I was quite disappointed as the dogs on the website looked beautiful and well bred.

I have emailed a few breeders in NSW who specialise in breeding show dogs, and the responses I got were wonderful - they seemed like they genuinely wanted to help, and weren't overly concerned about a deposit. I'm looking for a dog for a pet (won't be competing in dog sports, agility etc) but I still want a well bred dog out of parents with low health risks etc, with intelligence and a good temperament. Lastly, I know looks shouldn't matter but I do have my heart set on getting a black/white or choc/white with long hair. Actually, do most breeders breed long hair Borders? Sorry for the silly question, but on some breeders' websites some of the dogs have really long hair, others have mid length. Do the dogs shed then re-grow their coats and that's why some look to have shorter hair?

Can anyone recommend some good, reputable breeders please?

[BC Crazy]

Hi paws22, & welcome. I have PM'd you :)

[Mystiqview]

NEVER pay a deposit on a pup from a litter that is not even born yet!!!!!

It really is important to match the temperament of the puppy to that of the family that the pup will be going to. No use sending a quiet pup to a very busy and rambunctious household and vice versa. It just will not work.

Most Pedigree dogs will be what as termed as "long hair" - medium at minimum. Most coloured dogs will generally have shorter hair (Still a medium length) than their black and white counterparts. Some lines are known for big coats whereas other lines have more a medium coat length. Some coats are dead straight and others are wavy.

Bitches will drop coat before their season approximately twice a year, then again they will do a full coat drop after having a litter of pups. Males tend to drop their coat once a year on average. Manes on males can vary depending again on colour and whether their line has a big flowing mane or they have a denser thicker coat.

If you are wanting colour then the mine field does increase further as colour is a fad in the breed and there are many breeders breeding and catering to this fad and are charging accordingly.

You can easily pick up a coloured dog if you are prepared to pay for it. There are many who are advertising colour continually on the DOL puppy pages. If you go there and check periodically - you will soon work out who has near permanent ads up for upcoming litters and what colours will be available in each. A good breeder will breed for health, temperament and conformation first and if colour appears it is a bonus. When you start to concentrate a breeding program to only limit certain traits - then something else has to give. Often this will be conformation of the dog.

Also look to the breeder websites if they have them. Have a look to how many dogs they have, what colors they have and what they do with their dogs. If they are just breeding and breeding, and have plenty of different dogs and colours, then you will soon see what their aim is for breeding.

Lastly you should not pay more than $1200 for a dog - regardless of sex or colour. A good ethical breeder does not charge more for colour or sex. You would also want the parents to be fully hip/elbow scored, DNA tested/profiled and eye tested. Some colour breeders will say their dogs are clear via parent for CEA, CL and TNS. But will not complete the rest of the testing as no testing is compulsory in the breed.

If you are wanting Chocolate or Colour - you may have to wait.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Mystiqview

[BC Crazy]

Great post Mystiqview :)

[RiverStar-Aura]

I totally agree with MV's great post. It always baffles me when I hear breeders asking for a deposit before a litter is born, or worse, the bitch is yet to be mated.

I'm not a breeder only a doggy owner, but when I was waiting for my youngest dog, the breeder I'd chosen had two possible upcoming litters. One girl only had one puppy, which went to a prospective show home, the other girl reabsorbed the pups. Breeding sometimes doesn't go to plan and there's no guarantee of pups so I'd never leave a deposit.

Then there's always the chance that none of the puppies in the litter are compatible with you so why be asked to leave a deposit on something so unknown?

It's good you're asking questions now and that you feel odd regarding the leaving of a deposit. I'd personally move on from these breeders as a just in case.

Edited August 23, 2014 by RiverStar-Aura

[Paws22]

Wow, thank you all for such wonderful responses!! I will definitely be taking all of this information on board.

Mystiqview, thanks for all your great information - I had no idea that black and white BCs tend to have longer coats. That would explain the differences I've wondered about. Can I just ask what you meant when you said not to pay more than $1,200.00 for a pup? I have looked at a couple of breeders who charge around that price....would you say for a well bred, healthy pup this would be a standard price?

Many thanks to you all again! And sorry for all the questions - I am just a tad excited :)

[Mystiqview]

Price can depend on a number of things, firstly if it's a colour, how much someone is willing to pay for that colour. Some colours can fetch anywhere up to $2000. Are they worth it? On a whole, I would say not. It would have to be one very special dog from some very special bloodlines and parent achievements to pay that much.

A lot of colour breeders will charge different prices ranging anywhere from $600 for a black and white right up to $1800 for a chocolate merle. Again, some health testing like hip and elbow scoring may not be done. Some breeders I have heard, will not talk to someone about their dogs until a deposit is made. That is so wrong on so many levels.

On average a well bred dog should be between $1000 and $1200. For a pet, I would not be paying more than $1200.

If you are looking at a black/white pup, the nose pigment should be fully pigmented by 6 weeks. There are some breeders in SE QLD who are breeding black/white dogs with a lot of nose pigment missing. On a merle, it is accepted, however for breeding, it is considered a merle should still have full nose pigment. Some chocolates, will have missing nose pigment, but I would want no more than about 5-10% pigment missing.

No colour is rare. All colours with the exception of merle is recessive. To produce merle, one parent MUST be merle. The exception here is where a red/white(sometimes referred as wheaten) is mated to a merle. If there is red progeny, it is possible it could be merle, as the red gene will mask the merle pattern.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Mystiqview

[sheena]

Have you owned a border collie before ?? Are you prepared to put in all the work required to keep it from getting bored ??

You say you are not wanting to do dog sports, agility etc & just want a pet. What sort of things are you going to do with it :)

Edited August 23, 2014 by sheena

[Paws22]

Thanks for the great info Mystiqview!! The information about the colours really helped. I've spoken to a few breeders who have indeed called their colours "rare". I know now I'll be avoiding those!! It was great to also know what you thought was a reasonable price too.

Border Collie and Agility Nut, thanks for your response. I do want the dog to be a pet, that is, I won't be entering into any serious competitions etc. I do however definitely want to invest a lot of time into the dog's training and physical/mental exercise. I'd love to hear more about the competitions you enter your dogs in?

[sheena]

Thanks for the great info Mystiqview!! The information about the colours really helped. I've spoken to a few breeders who have indeed called their colours "rare". I know now I'll be avoiding those!! It was great to also know what you thought was a reasonable price too.

Border Collie and Agility Nut, thanks for your response. I do want the dog to be a pet, that is, I won't be entering into any serious competitions etc. I do however definitely want to invest a lot of time into the dog's training and physical/mental exercise. I'd love to hear more about the competitions you enter your dogs in?

Paws22...Border Collies are wonderful dogs & personally, I wouldn't have anything else...but I am a bit bias :laugh: They are great companions, have terrific personalities & they give me a reason to get out & be active. If you would like to see what we do with our two borders, here is a link to my website, which I set up just for fun initially, as I am not a breeder, but it now has pages which (I would hope) are full of good information Link to my border collie web page :)

[Mystiqview]

Paws,

There are plenty of things you can do with your border collie other than enter into agility/obedience etc. There is also Dancing with Dogs and Rally-O competitions - these are based in obedience but are much more fun orientated than conventional obedience competitions. However in saying this - any sort of training/sport is as much fun as you make it for yourself and your dog/s.

Also for mental stimulation - there are tricks and things you can teach your dog. This will also work the mental part of the dog's brain. Many tricks can be done from your armchair and it is your level of imagine that will stop you. Border Collies - like any dog needs to be part of the family. They do not do well being left in the back yard.

My guys are very much a part of my family. We regularly go 4wd and camping and they most times come along and love it.

Also when choosing your breeder - work out what they breed for: Those who breed primarily for sports/agility and high drive activities may not be your best choice if you are wanting a family pet. Plenty of show dogs also need to be family pets in their normal lives. Not all show dogs are kept in kennels. Many smaller breeders who breed a few litters a year, the dogs are family pets that also show or compete in other activities. Also within each litter there will be those who are much higher drive than their litter mates and a good breeder will match the personality and traits of the puppy with the family wanting the pup. A good breeder also will not sell a person a puppy whom they think they don't have one for. This is not necessarily a bad mark against the person wanting the puppy - it could be a simple thing of not having the sex or temperament the puppy buyer is seeking.

As a breeder, I would prefer to say to a puppy buyer: "I have not one suitable for you and to try XYZ breeders" than sell someone a remaining pup just so they can have a puppy, knowing full well my remaining pup would not be best suited to the person's situation.

To advertise on DOL puppy pages - a breeder only needs to be registered with their state controlling body. Ethics and breeding principles can greatly vary between breeders.

[Tay.]

I do however definitely want to invest a lot of time into the dog's training and physical/mental exercise.

This is good to hear. Border Collies need a lot of mental stimulation - they like having a job to do. Even though you aren't interested in competitive dog sports, I'd definitely recommend attending a training/obedience club, not only for the training of the dog but for socialization too.

[dancinbcs]

There are always plenty of BC litters and most good breeders do not ask for deposits until you have seen the litter and they have decided that they have a suitable puppy for your situation. A lot of good breeders do not take deposits at all. Good breeders ask lots of questions about your family and lifestyle so they can match the right puppy to you. Price should be around $1000 - $1200 but a few are now starting to creep up towards $1500. Anything higher than that is overpriced and steer well away from anyone who charges different prices for different colours. Colour and markings are of no importance in the breed. The parents of the puppies must be DNA tested for CL, TNS and CEA as well as hip and elbow scored. If the breeder cannot show you all those results for both parents, look elsewhere. Good BC breeders always breed for a purpose, show, herding or performance sports and always breed with the intention of keeping a puppy for themselves first to further the breed. If they cannot tell you all about what they compete in and their success with their dogs, look elsewhere. Anyone churning out litters of family pets, all to be sold on limit register, is doing the wrong thing by the breed. Some BCs do make great family pets for the right families but they are first and foremost a serious working breed and should never be bred with just the aim of making them pets. Many shonky breeders have on their website that they breed family pets. Many of these breeders say they are breeding healthy dogs but have no idea what a soundly constructed dog should be built like and soundness in body, limb and movement is as vital to health as the parents health tests so stay away from those. As you do not want a performance dog your best bet is show breeder who is breeding for dogs that are healthy and have great temperaments as both are vital to show ring success.

Personally I never sell to anyone who has not owned a demanding breed before but some breeders will sell to novice dog owners. I always had a list of people looking for their second or third BC or had owned other breeds like Dobermans and GSDs before. Borders are high energy dogs that need lots of training and mental stimulation as well as a fair amount of exercise. They need you to be one step ahead of them, or they train their owners. In the right home they are the best dog in the world and the easiest to train. In the wrong home they can be a disaster. So read up, go to shows and obedience trials and meet as many BCs as you can to get a feel for the sort of dog you want. These are also places you can meet the better quality breeders. If you want to PM me at any time to ask if I recommend any particular breeders I am happy to do that. About a third of the breeders listed on DOL are what I consider good quality show and performance breeders, the rest are just pumping out pets in large numbers.

All ANKC registered BCs are long haired and most are black and white. The wait for a good chocolate one could be years as hardly any of the reputable breeders have the chocolate gene in their lines so it would be easiest to go for a classic black and white.

Edited August 25, 2014 by dancinbcs

[Tassie]

Great information from Mystiqview and dancinbcs. As has been said, so many different activities that BCs can love doing. Mine do obedience, Rally, agility, Dances with Dogs, and tracking/track and search. We're not always successful, but we have a lot of fun 'playing'. BCs are also great as therapy dogs - people as a whole tend to smile at them and have good associations, and kept groomed, their coat is so inviting to stroke and ruffle.

The main advice I give to new BC owenrs, is not to buy into the "Border Collies need hours of exercise" thing. They do need exercise, but ideally it should be exercise with you, building up and cementing the relationship with you, rather than a lot of extreme crazy self-reinforcing exercise. A bored BC is a pain, but an extremely fit, exercise junkie, bored BC is a nightmare. One of the things I love most about the breed is that they were bred to work with people, so to me, that is what pet owners need to try to replicate - so as has been said - lots of mental exercixe, trick training, training for dog activities, and just hanging out together. :)

[Paws22]

DancinBCs, thank you very much for the wonderful information! I had no idea that most reputable breeders mainly just breed black and white longhaired. That certainly helps to narrow down the list of breeders that I have been considering. I also had no idea that I should avoid breeders who advertise their dogs as "family pets". Many of the breeders I have looked at advertise their dogs as pets. It really is extremely helpful to know that I should now be looking at breeders who breed dogs for showing.

Thank you Tassie also for the great tips on keeping BCs active.

Just wondering - does anyone have much information about buying a puppy from another state and having the puppy transported by plane? I'm considering a few breeders in the Sydney area, and I just wondered whether it would be more stressful for the puppy to be transported 1.5 hours on a plane or 11 hours in a car (Sydney to Brisbane). I've found some breeders in Qld who look great, but if I do decide to go with one in NSW I just wanted to know the options.

Thanks

[dotdashdot]

Hi Paws 22, I know nothing about BC's and you've been given great info. I DO know about having pups flown interstate, both my dogs came from Tasmania and I live in northern NSW. My first dog was flown straight to my regional town, and my second was flown to Brisbane we drove the 5 hours back home (she slept the whole time, it was after 7pm and we had worn her out playing).

Some breeders won't fly pups which I can understand, but my girls both had had positive experiences and arrived in perfect health.

[Tassie]

My girl flew from Melbourne to Hobart as accompanied luggage at 8 weeks, 12 years ago , and my boy flew with JetPets on Virgin from Perth WA as a 10 week old 5.5 years ago. Something like 9.5 hours including a 2 hour stopover in Melbourne. Both were completely happy when they arrived.

My boy also had his first Bass Strait ferry crossing .. about 12 hours in his crate in the car .. complete with water and bedding .. and was fine.

[ness]

One other thing which might be work asking a breeder is any other possible health issues which have cropped up in there lines. There are a few problems which are becoming more apparent in the breed which while can't be tested for genetically at this point still may have a genetic basis. A good breeder will be open to mentioning any problems which may exist in their lines. I unfortunately got a youngster with BC collapse and wasn't even aware the condition existed in the breed until I started observing things happening in my girl and making comments and people mentioning the condition to me. The researchers would have me believe that there are more BCs in Australia with the condition then people might otherwise be prepared to agree.

In my girls case it was just one of those unfortunate things but having had the issue come up and a few other probable genetic issues I would be asking more questions of any future breeder about any other conditions which may have occurred.

[sheena]

There are always plenty of BC litters and most good breeders do not ask for deposits until you have seen the litter and they have decided that they have a suitable puppy for your situation. A lot of good breeders do not take deposits at all. Good breeders ask lots of questions about your family and lifestyle so they can match the right puppy to you. Price should be around $1000 - $1200 but a few are now starting to creep up towards $1500. Anything higher than that is overpriced and steer well away from anyone who charges different prices for different colours. Colour and markings are of no importance in the breed. The parents of the puppies must be DNA tested for CL, TNS and CEA as well as hip and elbow scored. If the breeder cannot show you all those results for both parents, look elsewhere. Good BC breeders always breed for a purpose, show, herding or performance sports and always breed with the intention of keeping a puppy for themselves first to further the breed. If they cannot tell you all about what they compete in and their success with their dogs, look elsewhere. Anyone churning out litters of family pets, all to be sold on limit register, is doing the wrong thing by the breed. Some BCs do make great family pets for the right families but they are first and foremost a serious working breed and should never be bred with just the aim of making them pets. Many shonky breeders have on their website that they breed family pets. Many of these breeders say they are breeding healthy dogs but have no idea what a soundly constructed dog should be built like and soundness in body, limb and movement is as vital to health as the parents health tests so stay away from those. As you do not want a performance dog your best bet is show breeder who is breeding for dogs that are healthy and have great temperaments as both are vital to show ring success.

Personally I never sell to anyone who has not owned a demanding breed before but some breeders will sell to novice dog owners. I always had a list of people looking for their second or third BC or had owned other breeds like Dobermans and GSDs before. Borders are high energy dogs that need lots of training and mental stimulation as well as a fair amount of exercise. They need you to be one step ahead of them, or they train their owners. In the right home they are the best dog in the world and the easiest to train. In the wrong home they can be a disaster. So read up, go to shows and obedience trials and meet as many BCs as you can to get a feel for the sort of dog you want. These are also places you can meet the better quality breeders. If you want to PM me at any time to ask if I recommend any particular breeders I am happy to do that. About a third of the breeders listed on DOL are what I consider good quality show and performance breeders, the rest are just pumping out pets in large numbers.

All ANKC registered BCs are long haired and most are black and white. The wait for a good chocolate one could be years as hardly any of the reputable breeders have the chocolate gene in their lines so it would be easiest to go for a classic black and white.

Not quite sure if I agree with this. There are some lovely chocolate & white & other colours around that are registered BC's. If you are talking Mains registered, then the OP has about as much chance as a snowball in hell, of being able to buy a Mains Registered BC. Almost all or them are sold on Limited Register & that certainly doesn't mean that the dog is inferior, or is not healthy or doesn't have a lovely temperament. It just simply means the dog can't be shown or bred from, which is fine by most people. :)

[dancinbcs]

There are always plenty of BC litters and most good breeders do not ask for deposits until you have seen the litter and they have decided that they have a suitable puppy for your situation. A lot of good breeders do not take deposits at all. Good breeders ask lots of questions about your family and lifestyle so they can match the right puppy to you. Price should be around $1000 - $1200 but a few are now starting to creep up towards $1500. Anything higher than that is overpriced and steer well away from anyone who charges different prices for different colours. Colour and markings are of no importance in the breed. The parents of the puppies must be DNA tested for CL, TNS and CEA as well as hip and elbow scored. If the breeder cannot show you all those results for both parents, look elsewhere. Good BC breeders always breed for a purpose, show, herding or performance sports and always breed with the intention of keeping a puppy for themselves first to further the breed. If they cannot tell you all about what they compete in and their success with their dogs, look elsewhere. Anyone churning out litters of family pets, all to be sold on limit register, is doing the wrong thing by the breed. Some BCs do make great family pets for the right families but they are first and foremost a serious working breed and should never be bred with just the aim of making them pets. Many shonky breeders have on their website that they breed family pets. Many of these breeders say they are breeding healthy dogs but have no idea what a soundly constructed dog should be built like and soundness in body, limb and movement is as vital to health as the parents health tests so stay away from those. As you do not want a performance dog your best bet is show breeder who is breeding for dogs that are healthy and have great temperaments as both are vital to show ring success.

Personally I never sell to anyone who has not owned a demanding breed before but some breeders will sell to novice dog owners. I always had a list of people looking for their second or third BC or had owned other breeds like Dobermans and GSDs before. Borders are high energy dogs that need lots of training and mental stimulation as well as a fair amount of exercise. They need you to be one step ahead of them, or they train their owners. In the right home they are the best dog in the world and the easiest to train. In the wrong home they can be a disaster. So read up, go to shows and obedience trials and meet as many BCs as you can to get a feel for the sort of dog you want. These are also places you can meet the better quality breeders. If you want to PM me at any time to ask if I recommend any particular breeders I am happy to do that. About a third of the breeders listed on DOL are what I consider good quality show and performance breeders, the rest are just pumping out pets in large numbers.

All ANKC registered BCs are long haired and most are black and white. The wait for a good chocolate one could be years as hardly any of the reputable breeders have the chocolate gene in their lines so it would be easiest to go for a classic black and white.

Not quite sure if I agree with this. There are some lovely chocolate & white & other colours around that are registered BC's. If you are talking Mains registered, then the OP has about as much chance as a snowball in hell, of being able to buy a Mains Registered BC. Almost all or them are sold on Limited Register & that certainly doesn't mean that the dog is inferior, or is not healthy or doesn't have a lovely temperament. It just simply means the dog can't be shown or bred from, which is fine by most people. :)

As the OP is not after a performance dog and show bred litters have been suggested, the chance of getting a chocolate from show lines is almost zero as hardly any of the show lines have the choc gene. At least 90% of show dogs are black and white. There are some chocs in the performance dogs and they are a dime a dozen from those who breed for nothing but colour, so lots of chocs around but very few from good breeders. In the show lines black is most common, followed by red, then blue. Only about 3 or 4 show breeders in the entire country have choc dogs in their lines at all and only have choc puppies by chance as none breed just to get the colour.