Signs Of Early Kidney Disease And Diet

[Kavik]

I had a chat to my vet about trying a homemade diet for Zoe when she was diagnosed with kidney failure, but they were pretty adamant that K/D was the best way to go.

[Yonjuro]

I am sorry to hear of the trouble you are having with your dog and kidneys, here are some recipes that may be useful - I don't really know though, but I suppose if you wanted to go down the path of preparing your own then I am sure that there will be quite a lot of information available. I think there are also help forums on feeding dogs with kidney disease.

Diets for Management of Chronic Renal Disease in Dogs

The following diets supply nutrients for a medium-size adult dog, and provide about 10 percent protein (135 percent of needs). Chicken fat improves palatability. Increasing dietary chicken fat decreases the protein percent, however. The diets are all low phosphorus and provide 50 to 75 percent of vitamin D requirements. Some diets contain minimum amounts of sodium and some are low in sodium. Some animals loose excess sodium with chronic renal disease and in such cases iodized salt is used for flavor (one-tenth teaspoon iodized salt can be added). Depending on needs diets contain normal, low or high amounts of potassium. Potassium depleted animals can be fed a low potassium diet if one-fourth teaspoon potassium chloride is added. Magnesium is available to meet required levels. Some diets are low in vitamin B12 which is probably unimportant unless they are fed for many months. Substituting chicken or ground beef for eggs enhances flavor and provides more B complex and B12 vitamins. A vitamin B12 supplement can be given occasionally. The diets are balanced with respect to all other nutrients.

Feeding a diet matched to needs can restore phosphorus, potassium and sodium to normal. Blood chemistry panels are done to monitor plasma concentrations. With normal blood levels dietary mineral levels can be modified. It may not be necessary to continue feeding a very low phosphorus diet; doing so may result in deficiency. To increase dietary phosphorus substitute bone meal powder or tablets for calcium carbonate tablets. For example, to one of these diets providing 45 percent of the phosphorus needs, adding bone meal powder in place of 1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets increases dietary phosphate to meet NRC requirements. Normal calcium levels are maintained. At the end of each recipe directions are given for restoring normal phosphorus levels.

Eggs and Potato

Low Protein, Low phosphorus, High Potassium, Normal Sodium

1 cooked whole egg, chicken

3 cups potatoes boiled in skin (369 grams)

1 tablespoon chicken fat (14 grams)

1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets (600 mg calcium)

1/2 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

provides 600 kcalories, 15.1 g protein, 18.5 g fat

supports caloric needs of 18 pound dog

provides phosphorus 53%, potassium 322%, sodium 114% of a dog's daily needs.

To feed this diet with a normal amount of phosphorus substitute 2.5 grams bone meal powder for the 1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets

Chicken and Potato

Low Protein, Low phosphorus, High Potassium, Low Sodium

1/4 cup cooked chicken breast (72 grams)

3 cups potatoes boiled in skin (369 grams)

2 tablespoons chicken fat (28 grams)

1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets (600 mg calcium)

1/2 multiple vitamin mineral tablet

provides 689 kcalories, 18.9 g protein, 26.8 g fat

supports caloric needs of 21 to 22 pound dog

provides phosphorus 45%, potassium 301%, sodium 54% of a dog's daily needs.

To feed this diet with a normal amount of phosphorus substitute 3 grams bone meal powder for the 1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets

Beef and Potato

Low Protein, Low phosphorus, High Potassium, Low Sodium

2 ounces (raw weight) lean ground beef, cooked (57 grams)

3 cups potatoes boiled in skin (369 grams)

2 tablespoons chicken fat (28 grams)

1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets (600 mg calcium)

1/2 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

provides 737 kcalories, 18.6 g protein, 32.5 g fat

supports caloric needs of 23 to 24 pound dog

provides phosphorus 43%, potassium 293%, sodium 54% of a dog's daily needs.

To feed this diet with a normal amount of phosphorus substitute 3 grams bone meal powder for the 1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets

Eggs and Tapioca

Low Protein, Low phosphorus, Low Potassium, Normal Sodium

3 cooked whole eggs, chicken

2 cups tapioca, cooked, (125 g dry before cooking)

1 tablespoon chicken fat (14 grams)

1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets (600 mg calcium)

1/2 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

provides 779 kcalories, 19.3 g protein, 28.9 g fat

supports caloric needs of 25 pound dog

provides phosphorus 40%, potassium 30%, sodium 216% of a dog's daily needs.

To feed this diet with a normal amount of phosphorus substitute 3 grams bone meal powder for the 1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets

Beef and Tapioca

Low Protein, Low phosphorus, Low Potassium, Low Sodium

4 ounces (raw weight) lean ground beef, cooked (114 grams)

2 cups tapioca, cooked, (125 g dry before cooking)

2 tablespoons chicken fat (28 grams)

1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets (600 mg calcium)

1/2 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

provides 845 kcalories, 19.9 g protein, 37.2 g fat

supports caloric needs of 28 pound dog

provides phosphorus 18%, potassium 29%, sodium 55% of a dog's daily needs.

To feed this diet with a normal amount of phosphorus substitute 4 to 5 grams bone meal powder for the 1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets

Egg White and Tapioca

Low Protein, Low phosphorus, Low Potassium, Normal Sodium

3 whites from whole chicken eggs, cooked

2 cups tapioca, cooked, (125 g dry before cooking)

1 tablespoon chicken fat (14 grams)

1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets (600 mg calcium)

1/2 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

provides 610 kcalories, 14.1 g protein, 13 g fat

supports caloric needs of 18 pound dog

provides phosphorus 6%, potassium 33%, sodium 269% of a dog's daily needs.

To feed this diet with a normal amount of phosphorus substitute 5 grams bone meal powder for the 1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets

Chicken and Tapioca

Low Protein, Low phosphorus, Low Potassium, Low Sodium

1/2 cup cooked chicken breast (143 grams)

2 cups tapioca, cooked, (125 g dry before cooking)

2 tablespoons chicken fat (28 grams)

1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets (600 mg calcium)

1/2 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

provides 763 kcalories, 20.8 g protein, 27.3 g fat

supports caloric needs of 24 to 25 pound dog

provides phosphorus 20%, potassium 22%, sodium 55% of a dog's daily needs.

To feed this diet with a normal amount of phosphorus substitute 5 grams bone meal powder for the 1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets

Eggs and Rice

Low Protein, Low phosphorus, Low Potassium, Normal Sodium

1 cooked whole egg, chicken

2 cups cooked rice, white polished, long-grain (320grams)

1 tablespoon chicken fat (14 grams)

1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets (600 mg calcium)

1/2 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

provides 721 kcalories, 15.2 g protein, 31.4 g fat

supports caloric needs of 23 pound dog

provides phosphorus 40%, potassium 30%, sodium 90% of a dog's daily needs.

To feed this diet with a normal amount of phosphorus substitute 3 grams bone meal powder for the 1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets

Egg White and Rice

Low Protein, Low phosphorus, Low Potassium, Normal Sodium

3 whites from whole chicken eggs, cooked

2 cups cooked rice, white polished, long-grain (320 grams)

2 tablespoons chicken fat (28 grams)

1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets (600 mg calcium)

1/2 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

provides 693 kcalories, 18.8 g protein, 26.8 g fat

supports caloric needs of 21 to 22 pound dog

provides phosphorus 27%, potassium 43%, sodium 208% of a dog's daily needs.

To feed this diet with a normal amount of phosphorus substitute 4 grams bone meal powder for the 1 1/2 calcium carbonate tablets

http://dogcathomeprepareddiet.com/diet_and_chronic_renal_disease.html

Edited August 26, 2014 by Yonjuro

[Dave-o]

There is a time and a place for stating arguments about the content of commercially available pet foods, this is not it.

Fair point, I apologise. It frustrates me that vets don't push for a better quality food to cater for such issues.

[JulesP]

Hmm, the fact they include iodized salt in a prescription food to help kidney dysfunction is ominous to me. It's more often used to cover rancid meats and fats, and given there's no meat content I assume we're talking about the pork fat here?

Brewers rice - waste

Egg product - lousy

Corn gluten meal - by-product of a filler

Beet pulp - Sugary filler

Calcium sulfate - plaster of paris?

Phosphoric acid...

Most of the mineral inclusions look like standard sources to me. Fair enough, they're included, but none of them are quality sources. Let's mash up some Berocca and feed it to our kids in a Big Mac...

2 years a go my dog was diagnosed with a liver shunt. She was given 6 months to live. She wouldn't eat anything and was a very poorly dog. I had tried every super premium and raw diets.

I put her on Hills K/D & L/D. I was fairly OMG about the products as I was a food snob.

2 years later my dog is still here, eats her crappy Hills food with gusto and is doing really well.

It taught me to be more open minded about food and that the best food for a dog is the one it does well on.

Commenting like you have in this thread is not helpful to anyone.

Edited August 26, 2014 by JulesP

[jaybeece]

There is a time and a place for stating arguments about the content of commercially available pet foods, this is not it.

Fair point, I apologise. It frustrates me that vets don't push for a better quality food to cater for such issues.

All good mate, I've done my fair share of ranting on the topic :laugh:

Under normal circumstances I'd steer clear of anything with this ingredient list, but the evidence for its efficacy is there and all that matters is that my brown doggy stays happy and healthy for as long as possible :)

[Yonjuro]

I have to agree that the ingredients in the k/d do look pretty cheap and nasty, but if the dog does well on it and it appears that many do actually do well on it then it is a no-brainer. Assuming of course that you can afford it.

It is just a shame that the price is so high when the ingredients are pretty low cost. It has been around for long enough now that research and development should no longer dictate over-the-top pricing

[jaybeece]

Thanks for the info Yonjuro, much appreciated :) might need to start printing out some of this and sticking it on the fridge so I remember to discuss it with the vet

[Yonjuro]

Thanks for the info Yonjuro, much appreciated :) might need to start printing out some of this and sticking it on the fridge so I remember to discuss it with the vet

You are most welcome :)

I know some people poo-poo holistic vets but I wonder if there is a good one near you that you can get a diet opinion from. I think they specialise more in diet than traditional vets?

[jaybeece]

Could be worth checking out! I have to concentrate on study for the next couple of months but after that I'll be doing a lot more research into the requirements of bung kidneys :)

[Sagittarian]

Don't know what area you're in, but if Sunbury is accessible for you, we have Dr Bruce Syme coming to give a talk in our store on the 28th Sept. He'll be hanging around afterwards so you could get some free advice if that helps?

Could be worth checking out! I have to concentrate on study for the next couple of months but after that I'll be doing a lot more research into the requirements of bung kidneys :)

[Rappie]

from what you've said it it's very early on and it is possible that the values will hang around the upper end of normal and sneak just out of normal range for a while yet. If you are interested in how the treatments in the review article apply to clinical management (again getting ahead of ourselves) then I can send you the link for the site that does that too.

Edit to add: I'm not trying to foist information on you but given your science background I thought you might appreciate guidelines and algorithms and evidence that decision making more than being told 'this is just what we do'

Edited August 26, 2014 by Rappie

[jaybeece]

Oh god no, bring it on Rappie! The more info the better :) I'm definitely of the mind that it's better to know why something is done a certain way than to just follow it blindly.

Sags Sunbury is a bit of a hike for me I think, but I'll see what my schedule is looking like closer to the date and see if I can squeeze a trip in :)

[Sheridan]

Thanks for the info Yonjuro, much appreciated :) might need to start printing out some of this and sticking it on the fridge so I remember to discuss it with the vet

You are most welcome :)

I know some people poo-poo holistic vets but I wonder if there is a good one near you that you can get a diet opinion from. I think they specialise more in diet than traditional vets?

Which is all very nice but do they specialise in diets for an everchanging disease? That, as I said before, is the problem with homemade diets. They have to change as the values change.

[Dave-o]

2 years a go my dog was diagnosed with a liver shunt. She was given 6 months to live. She wouldn't eat anything and was a very poorly dog. I had tried every super premium and raw diets.

I put her on Hills K/D & L/D. I was fairly OMG about the products as I was a food snob.

2 years later my dog is still here, eats her crappy Hills food with gusto and is doing really well.

It taught me to be more open minded about food and that the best food for a dog is the one it does well on.

Jules, I hesitated at replying to this, but I had a 14 year old cat diagnosed with kidney disease and given 6 months. Our vet put him on k/d and science diet which we continued to feed him until he died at a ripe old age of 21. This was many years ago when I was ignorant of many things, and I took the little fella's longevity as testament to the quality of the Hills food.

But thinking back, from his diagnosis to the day he died he was very lethargic. He became very skinny and quiet, the muscles in his rear legs deteriorated, his coat was dull, and he was a shadow of the cat he was before. Fair enough he lived another 6 years and we made the most of his company, but thinking back I wish I fed him a better food - maybe it would've helped, even if he died younger. We had him put down as his bowels were giving up and he couldn't pass.

[Yonjuro]

Thanks for the info Yonjuro, much appreciated :) might need to start printing out some of this and sticking it on the fridge so I remember to discuss it with the vet

You are most welcome :)

I know some people poo-poo holistic vets but I wonder if there is a good one near you that you can get a diet opinion from. I think they specialise more in diet than traditional vets?

Which is all very nice but do they specialise in diets for an everchanging disease? That, as I said before, is the problem with homemade diets. They have to change as the values change.

I would have though someone who specialises in diet - whomever this is would be able to modify the diet according to the progress of the disease? Based on your reasoning, please tell me how a static product like K/D copes with an ever-changing condition. I haven't poo-pood KD I am simply offering suggestions. It sounds like jaybeece is certainly capable of doing the required research and also more than capable of discounting any suggestions I have made.

[JulesP]

2 years a go my dog was diagnosed with a liver shunt. She was given 6 months to live. She wouldn't eat anything and was a very poorly dog. I had tried every super premium and raw diets.

I put her on Hills K/D & L/D. I was fairly OMG about the products as I was a food snob.

2 years later my dog is still here, eats her crappy Hills food with gusto and is doing really well.

It taught me to be more open minded about food and that the best food for a dog is the one it does well on.

Jules, I hesitated at replying to this, but I had a 14 year old cat diagnosed with kidney disease and given 6 months. Our vet put him on k/d and science diet which we continued to feed him until he died at a ripe old age of 21. This was many years ago when I was ignorant of many things, and I took the little fella's longevity as testament to the quality of the Hills food.

But thinking back, from his diagnosis to the day he died he was very lethargic. He became very skinny and quiet, the muscles in his rear legs deteriorated, his coat was dull, and he was a shadow of the cat he was before. Fair enough he lived another 6 years and we made the most of his company, but thinking back I wish I fed him a better food - maybe it would've helped, even if he died younger. We had him put down as his bowels were giving up and he couldn't pass.

It is possible that nothing much would have helped your cat.

The change in my dog on this diet has been nothing short of miraculous. Apart from anything else she was having fits on a meat based diet. Trying to find another vegetarian diet that is low in sodium and has low purines was rather tricky.

You might poo poo the ingredients in these foods but they are actually there for a reason. They haven't just put a bunch of shitty ingredients in a can so they could rip off pet owners.

Edited August 28, 2014 by JulesP

[Sheridan]

Thanks for the info Yonjuro, much appreciated :) might need to start printing out some of this and sticking it on the fridge so I remember to discuss it with the vet

You are most welcome :)

I know some people poo-poo holistic vets but I wonder if there is a good one near you that you can get a diet opinion from. I think they specialise more in diet than traditional vets?

Which is all very nice but do they specialise in diets for an everchanging disease? That, as I said before, is the problem with homemade diets. They have to change as the values change.

I would have though someone who specialises in diet - whomever this yes, is would be able to modify the diet according to the progress of the disease? Based on your reasoning, please tell me how a static product like K/D copes with an ever-changing condition. I haven't poo-pood KD I am simply offering suggestions. It sounds like jaybeece is certainly capable of doing the required research and also more than capable of discounting any suggestions I have made.

Yes, she is.

[Yonjuro]

Thanks for the info Yonjuro, much appreciated :) might need to start printing out some of this and sticking it on the fridge so I remember to discuss it with the vet

You are most welcome :)

I know some people poo-poo holistic vets but I wonder if there is a good one near you that you can get a diet opinion from. I think they specialise more in diet than traditional vets?

Which is all very nice but do they specialise in diets for an everchanging disease? That, as I said before, is the problem with homemade diets. They have to change as the values change.

I would have though someone who specialises in diet - whomever this yes, is would be able to modify the diet according to the progress of the disease? Based on your reasoning, please tell me how a static product like K/D copes with an ever-changing condition. I haven't poo-pood KD I am simply offering suggestions. It sounds like jaybeece is certainly capable of doing the required research and also more than capable of discounting any suggestions I have made.

Yes, she is.

:laugh: nuff said hey? But seriously, you brought up an interesting question but seem to be contradicting yourself - how does the branded food you recommend account for an ever-changing condition?

[_PL_]

Oh god no, bring it on Rappie! The more info the better :) I'm definitely of the mind that it's better to know why something is done a certain way than to just follow it blindly.

Sags Sunbury is a bit of a hike for me I think, but I'll see what my schedule is looking like closer to the date and see if I can squeeze a trip in :)

Dr Bruce has a chinese herb for kidney function that I can't remember the name of. You just call the clinic, they should have it in stock. The explanation of how it worked/helped was quite interesting.

[Yonjuro]

Oh god no, bring it on Rappie! The more info the better :) I'm definitely of the mind that it's better to know why something is done a certain way than to just follow it blindly.

Sags Sunbury is a bit of a hike for me I think, but I'll see what my schedule is looking like closer to the date and see if I can squeeze a trip in :)

Dr Bruce has a chinese herb for kidney function that I can't remember the name of. You just call the clinic, they should have it in stock. The explanation of how it worked/helped was quite interesting.

Dr Bruce does sound like someone who could certainly help putting a diet together. I wonder if he can do something via phone or email if one submitted blood panels? I would love to hear his thoughts on the subject.