jaybeece Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Hi all, My brown doggy had a blood test before a GA earlier this year and the vet found that he had slightly elevated urea and creatinine so he had to be retested to be sure. He had the follow up blood test on Thursday which showed urea normal, creatinine slightly high. Then the urine test contained normal levels of both, but it was too dilute although not alarmingly so. He's not showing many symptoms, but may be drinking a little more than before and has had some epic licking sessions as well as some pee leaking once. The vet said he'll need to be ok a prescription diet for the next 3 months and be retested to find out if it's helped at all, which I'm fine with, but the ongoing expense of feeding a 36kg dog the prescription food is going to financially destroy me on my tiny student budget! Which leads me to ask, are there alternatives? I've asked the vet and she's adamant that the prescription food is the only way and the only thing he can eat, full stop. I'm dubious, although she may only mean for the 3 months leading up to the next test (I'm going to ask her to clarify this evening). Can anyone who's had experience with this provide some insight? If he needs to be on prescription food for the rest of his life I'll find the money somehow, but I'd really rather try to avoid it as well as find a solution that involves a little more dietary variety! Thanks :) Edited August 22, 2014 by jaybeece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Oh wow, that's super helpful! Thanks so much! I've found some info online, but nothing that comprehensive :) At the moment I'm trawling scientific journals for info about fish oil and beneficial dosages, so very much to learn. I'm sad that whole eggs are out (vet mentioned it too) as they're pretty much his most favourite food ever, but he loves rice, yoghurt and ricotta cheese so at least some of his favourites are still ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Cool, I'll keep an eye out for it, thanks again Snook :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 The prescription diets are the only treatment that has been shown to actually have an effect on the progression of kidney disease. I can get you a 'standard' home cooked diet recipe but constructing it may not be that much cheaper. The basic principles of feeding a dog with kidney disease are a reduced protein diet, not the traditionally recommended restricted protein diet. The protein needs to be be of high biological value but not in excess. It also ends to have reduced sodium and phosphorous which can make it a little more difficult I are diets since muscle meat is high in phosphorous so that is where other protein sources come into it. Omega oils supplements may be useful but more so where there is an inflammatory component such as in glomerulonephritis. Fish oil will bie more useful than something like megaderm same the EHA + DHA content in the latter is no high enough. There is an excellent evidence based review article in the Journal of Small Animal Practice (I think). I can get the reference for you if you are interested. Feel free to PM me if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Thanks so much Rappie, if you can remember the title or authors of that paper I'll have a look around for it, my uni should have access :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I have it in one of my readers from my masters so I'll dig the reference up for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Despite the expense, the prescription diet is the best option. The trouble with homemade diets is that they have to keep being adjusted as the disease progresses. Places like Best Friends sell the prescription diets and I am told by staff that they're included in their regular 20 per cent off sales. Alternatively, if you have a good relationship with your vet, have a pay it off arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ah great thanks Sheridan, I've been planning to suss out the availability of prescription food outside of the vet and I have a Best Friends really close by. There's another place a suburb over which tends to be much cheaper too so I'll have a look there too. I'm definitely happy to have him on prescription food, but it'd be nice to give him some level of variety along with it if it's for the rest of his life. Will likely be exclusively prescription food though until his next blood & urine test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 You have the option of RC & Hills, so you could do some rotating. I put some yogurt or cheese on top of Amber's occasionally too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffikki Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) I have a fairly young dog (5&1/2 yrs) who was also diagnosed with very early stage kidney problems/disease She's been put on the Hills k/d and I've found a couple of places online that are much better priced, than getting it direct from vets. Also it's a bit cheaper buying the bigger 8kg bag, but a bit harder to find them :) https://www.aussiepet.com.au/hills-prescription-diet-canine-k-d.html The other place is in WA but charges more for postage to other states, and only has the small bags http://www.mammothpetsupplies.com.au/buy/hill-s-prescription-diet-canine-k-d-renal-health-dog-food-hills/HPR1042 There is a couple of very helpful/supportive groups on facebook, that can help with raw feeding, (and sub q fluids, phosphorus binders etc) but personally for my girl I have decided to stick with the prescription diets, as I'm a bit uncertain about the phosphorus binders that are needed in homemade. Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/211455130573/ Page with different raw diets https://www.facebook.com/groups/301716136598335/ And yahoo groups(which I think are connected) that can help with feeding and is recommended for people with younger dogs https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/K9KIDNEYS/info https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/K9KidneyDiet/info Edited August 23, 2014 by raffikki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I pay $65 for a small bag of k/d. I've found that by the time you add postage to the online prices that they usually aren't cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 If the kidney disease doesn't fall into the run-of-the-mill, the K9 Kidney group may be of limited use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I've sent you the reference details by PM Jaybeece. If you get the PM three times that was just my toddler helping...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Hahaha they did an excellent job of sending it off in triplicate :laugh: Edited August 25, 2014 by jaybeece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 He was just being super efficient and was really keen for you to get it :laugh: A lot of the information won't be relevant to you at this point in time (and hopefully not for a while) but I hope you find it interesting and.somewhat useful at least. If you want or need any other info then let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-o Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) I don't know how a food like k/d that's predominantly a waste product from beer brewing can be good for a dog, premium prescription price or not. Just because they throw in some extra flaxseed doesn't make it a healthy food. Edited August 26, 2014 by Dave-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarian Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) Sometimes we just have to look past our perception of an ingredient and instead understand what the impact of that ingredient has on the body. There's actually a lot more going on in k/d than you mention. Lots of important minor and trace elements that assist failing kidneys. I'm not a fan of Hills in general, but when my girl had kidney disease, k/d was the one food she could metabolise. Sags I don't know how a food like k/d that's predominantly a waste product from beer brewing can be good for a dog, premium prescription price or not. Just because they throw in some extra flaxseed doesn't make it a healthy food. Edited August 26, 2014 by Sagittarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-o Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Hmm, the fact they include iodized salt in a prescription food to help kidney dysfunction is ominous to me. It's more often used to cover rancid meats and fats, and given there's no meat content I assume we're talking about the pork fat here? Brewers rice - waste Egg product - lousy Corn gluten meal - by-product of a filler Beet pulp - Sugary filler Calcium sulfate - plaster of paris? Phosphoric acid... Most of the mineral inclusions look like standard sources to me. Fair enough, they're included, but none of them are quality sources. Let's mash up some Berocca and feed it to our kids in a Big Mac... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 Dave-o while I can't argue with your criticism, your input is not terribly useful because my dog still needs to eat and scientific evidence does suggest that prescription food is the way to go. If I fed him on wishes that commercial food contained less crap he'd be dead within a week and I'm not really keen on that outcome because I've grown somewhat fond of him over the years and would like him around for a few more. There is a time and a place for stating arguments about the content of commercially available pet foods, this is not it. If, on the other hand, you have some advice regarding managing kidney disease I'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 He was just being super efficient and was really keen for you to get it :laugh: A lot of the information won't be relevant to you at this point in time (and hopefully not for a while) but I hope you find it interesting and.somewhat useful at least. If you want or need any other info then let me know. That's so cute :laugh: I had a flick through last night and a fair bit was really useful, so thanks heaps! I'll have to chat to the vet about where his kidneys are actually at based on his results as the stage of the disease seems to matter a fair bit when it comes to managing it. The vet hasn't made that terribly clear yet and I've based the assumption that it's early still on the only slightly elevated enzyme levels and his predominantly normal behaviour. Might be a convo we have after the next round of tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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