My Dog Was Born Without Out A Tear Duct Opening

[Christina]

Any dog with a congenital problem should not be bred from IMO.

Its not exactly a small, non serious thing either. The idea of breeding is to breed the best & healthiest not with dogs that carry known problems.

Desex & keep her as a pet & start again with another line if you want to breed.

"

If I bought another other dog how do I know that they wont have some other problem or the same one, as I have read that 20 to 25% of small dogs can be born with this condition. Silkies can also have other inherited problems as well, which I feel are worse than what my dog has. Her problem is only cosmetic as far as I am concerned which prevented me showing her. She did not have any discomfort from the extra tearing on one side of her face and certainly did not get any infections as a result of the issue. I just did not like the look of a stained face, which I read, could have been washed daily, if necessary, to improve the situation. I have seen many white coated dogs like maltese and some poodles which have a fair bit of tear staining, maybe they have the same problem, does that mean that those people should not breed from them?

Probably the same percent of small dogs have patella issues which show up when they are young & it pisses me off big time that some still breed from them.

Everyone doing it doesn't make it right.

Yes some dogs do get tear staining but many have seemingly normal tear ducts. They are not born without them & needing operations that are in the $1000's.

I don't know why you are asking questions as it seems you have already made up your mind what you are going to do.

You could buy another dog with this problem. Some breeders have to try with several dogs & end up buying & desexing or returning a few pups until they get it right.

The grandfather will have mated many bitches & sometimes its a combination of the dam & sires lines. Mated to a different dam the problem may not be carried. Breeders may not know or may not care to disclose however you can't control others actions only your own when you decide to breed or not to breed from a particular dog.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Christina

[Staffyluv]

There is a risk regardless of how small it is and like Persephone said you could be passing on this problem to the owners. Personally I think it would be very irresponsible to breed from her.

I think with any dog breed one of the aims should always be to improve on the health of your own lines as well as the breed as a whole.

I do agree with you on that, but what happens to all the lines in my dogs pedigree if I tell all the breeders of my problem do you think that they will stop breeding?

I doubt it. As I said one of the lines involves one of the best breeders in Australia.

It doesn't mean you have to add to the problem - you know there is an issue, it could be passed on..

Sadly no one can make a person be a responsible breeder - it is up to each and every individual breeder to do the right thing by the breed they love..

[persephone]

Her problem is only cosmetic

no it's not.

it stops they eyes/sinuses from working as they are meant to.

IMO "cosmetic" is a few dark hairs on a white coat ... or an ear which has a slight bend in the flap ..or when a patch of fur/hair grows back that different shade after being shaved for anaesthetic ....

Why do you really need to breed?

IF you are doing it because you love the breed , and wish to better the breed - you would be best not adding a defect into the mix.

an example -

and, yes , In My Opinion dogs with malfunctioning tear ducts /tear stains should not be bred from .... I am not a fan of breeds where this is considered almost "normal", sorry.

[Steve]

Firstly congenital isn't necessarily heritable or genetic it may be just a one off and the only way you could have a hope of eliminating it as a one off is if you had good knowledge of issues in the lines and the breed. If being born with no tear ducts is known to occur in the breed then you must assume it's a probable genetic issue. Then if you can identify it as a probable genetic issue you need to consider the mode of inheritance. If for example this is a recessive problem which it may be if it is genetic it is based on the answers you have from the breeder and you mate her to a dog which doesn't have this gene then you won't get any puppies which are affected. Problem of course is that without DNA you have no way of knowing if a potential mate is a risk or not. Another thing you have already focused on is that it's a limited gene pool and throwing this baby out with the bath water and buying another may not take you anywhere.You may be able to buy one without the condition but still end up with a yard full of affected puppies.

In the big scheme of things in comparison to most other possible genetic disorders this isn't a biggy. It's entirely possible for you to go ahead and breed her with as much knowledge that you can gain regarding other dogs in the ancestry to try to avoid as many risks as possible and use what comes next to help the breed into the future more than you would by simply taking her out of the mix. This will only happen if you commit to sharing the good and the bad about your dog and what comes from your litter and following the breeding into the future. Gathering and sharing information which is available for future breeders as you go.

If you send me her pedigree and evidence of the problem via documentation from the operation etc then I will enter the details into our health database to enable everyone who ever asks again to have a better place to start than you do and to see if we can link the common links in other pedigreesof her breed with the same problem. Part of the problem as you are finding out now is that such information is not ordinarily recorded, shared and sometimes forgotten or it's even sometimes actively hidden and ignored. Either way its not readily available to someone like you who needs to know such things to make decisions on what dogs to use or steer clear of.

Without DNA identification for such things the only hope we have of trying to eliminate them for the breed is via pedigree profiling and analysis and without the necessary information on a pedigree – where the only info you have is where the champs are - you go nowhere toward better health.

You have had the advantage of being able to identify a potential issue in your bloodline now before you have bred the dog so you know what you need to focus on and work on – its either the greatest challenge which you take hold of with commitment that no matter what you will do what is best for the breed, develop a breeding program and systems for collecting and recording information or you take the dog out of the gene pool now.

There is no half way if you truly want to do something worthwhile for the breed and in reality all of us are hopefully different to cross bred breeders by one stand out base philosophy – our desire to ensure the best for future generations and not only the one we are breeding today.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Steve

[Steve]

• Clogged or Shallow Tear Ducts: Studies indicate that 20-25% of small dogs and cats are born with closed of shallow tear ducts. Tears overflow because there the eyelid space is not deep enough to contain them.

O.K. I should have done this before I answered you above - Based on what I'm seeing it appears this is a conformation selection issue not a gene issue - Simple answer if that is the case - dont breed with her.

[Salukifan]

There is a risk regardless of how small it is and like Persephone said you could be passing on this problem to the owners. Personally I think it would be very irresponsible to breed from her.

I think with any dog breed one of the aims should always be to improve on the health of your own lines as well as the breed as a whole.

I do agree with you on that, but what happens to all the lines in my dogs pedigree if I tell all the breeders of my problem do you think that they will stop breeding?

I doubt it. As I said one of the lines involves one of the best breeders in Australia.

And even the best breeders produce less than perfect dogs.

This pup is 9 months old. She's a good year or more away from even being able to be bred. Seriously, why are you even considering her as a breeding prospect at this age? The fact that she has a uterus is only one issue you need to consider. I would never risk breeding this on. Do what's right by the breed and don't breed a dog with a known issue. It's just not worth it.

[persephone]

Silkygirl -

you have received advice from breeders with many many years of experience.

You have received advice from those to who study and genetics is high on their list , from those involved in dog health , and from those who have been there, done that.

I hope you take this advice seriously.

Why follow the 'mob' ?

if everyone else wanted to breed dogs after seeing that some of them had teeth missing, or a deformed toe , or a kinked tail ..would you follow?

Why not go the path that may not be popular , or may not lead to you selling puppies - but that removes that wonky gene from the breed- and helps make the risk of another puppy having the same problem much lower?

dogs are MEANT to be born with tear ducts that work . Simple.

[westiemum]

^^^^^^ this. I'm not a breeder - but I tell you if I bought one of your puppies with a malformation (yes let's call it what it is) and you knew about it prior to breeding the bitch I'd be mighty pissed off. And I'd hit you up for the surgery bills. And even if the puppy is clear, it doesn't mean that any progeny will be clear.

Don't breed your girl with a malformation - it's not fair on her, any puppies she has, the breed or the puppy buying public - and it reduces the reputation of silky breeders. Sorry - but why not get her desexed around 12 months and just enjoy her as a pet? She is not a good enough example of her breed to breed from IMO. But that doesn't mean she won't make a fabulous pet. And I'd have her tear ducts fixed as well if she were mine.

Edited August 24, 2014 by westiemum

[Steve]

You have heaps of time before you can breed her. Why not do this course while you are waiting - I will give this to you at half price.

http://www.mdba.net.au/mdba.net.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=737&Itemid=950

[persephone]

steve- that looks terrific :)

[Steve]

steve- that looks terrific :)

We have noticed we talk a fair few out of it when they really see what it entails but the feedback is great

There is a lot in it about ethics and decision making - long term consequences etc that isnt available any where else.

Its not as heavy on the technical side as you can get info on heat seasons etc everywhere

It just covers stuff it took most of us decades to know.

[persephone]

steve- that looks terrific :)

We have noticed we talk a fair few out of it when they really see what it entails but the feedback is great

There is a lot in it about ethics and decision making - long term consequences etc that isnt available any where else.

Its not as heavy on the technical side as you can get info on heat seasons etc everywhere

It just covers stuff it took most of us decades to know.

I will try & remember it for friends who are interested :)