Maddy Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Two days ago, I noticed a large lump on my old girl's neck that hadn't been there the day before (bit bigger than a golf ball). Several months ago, she'd had a large lump under her jaw that completely disappeared in the two days we were waiting for her vet appointment (vet checked salivary and lymph glands, all normal). Our vet said to bring her in immediately if anything similar appeared so after finding this new lump, she went in yesterday. Needle aspirate showed suspect cells that were today confirmed as mast cells. The slide has now gone over to Melbourne and my vet will have results for that in a few days. In the mean time, just wondering if anyone has any experience with relatively large mast cell tumours? Especially if they were located around the neck region as Sally's is apparently right next to her jugular vein. Has anyone here had such a large tumour successfully removed and if so, did more develop afterwards? The dog in question is greyhound, ten years old and up until these two lumps, has been in excellent health. Besides the new lump, she seems otherwise well but has developed a noticeable limp in both front legs (vet said this may just be arthritis) This is the previous (disappeared) lump when it first came up. It was not tender or leaking anything and was completely gone within 48 hours. New lump is much larger and touching it gets a flinch out of her so I'm assuming it's sore (vet prescribed anti-inflammatories to deal with that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Poor you and poor her. Such a difficult position to develop a MCT. I've had experience with a difficult one on the rear ankle where there wasn't much surrounding tissue to remove without hacking into the joint so to speak. However, the tumour was smaller. We've removed them all up until recently and they keep coming. My memory has gone blank but I think we've had 8 removals so far. It seems to me that most dogs continue to develop more tumours. It they're low grade there is every chance the tumours will not signal the death of your dog. I believe that most dogs have several years of good living with low grade tumours. It's for this reason we are not removing anymore from Boof. He is a few months off 12. Edited August 21, 2014 by ~Anne~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightstar123 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hi Maddy, sorry to hear about your girl's diagnosis. In your description of what happened there are a few things that stand out to me. Mast cell tumours are usually singular, but dogs may also present with multiple nodules, or even recurrent ones. Sometimes nodules can enlarge and then regress in size on their own, which is due to swelling within the tumour itself (granules within the tumour cells release substances which can cause swelling, itching and redness). You described this happening with your dog (the lump disappeared in two days) - this kind of thing should always raise the suspicion of a mast cell tumour. Swelling within the tumour would also explain how it's possible for the current mass to have become so large in only 1-2 days. Unfortunately mast cell tumours are very unpredictable tumours and as others have said, the prognosis will depend on the grade of the tumour. Tumours on the head/neck do tend to have a better prognosis than on the trunk, however unfortunately tumours that increase in size very quickly typically have a poorer prognosis. Depending on the grade, if she was my dog I would be having her referred to a specialist surgeon, as a wide resection with clean margins is very important and as you said, there are many important anatomical structures in that area like the carotid artery and jugular vein. An aggressive surgery early in the course of mast cell tumor disease is associated with the a better prognosis, so don't delay if at all possible. If the surgeon is unable to get a clean resection then radiation therapy might be recommended as well. Radiation is more commonly needed with recurrent tumours too. Before you proceed with any treatment it would probably be a good idea to have chest X-rays and/or an abdominal ultrasound to check for metastases, although I'm sure your vet will discuss that with you. Best wishes and keep us updated with how she goes :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 No luck with the slides that were sent off so my vet has suggested biopsy (of the mass itself and also the nearby lymph nodes as they're very swollen) and chest xrays, and she's booked in for that on this coming Wednesday. The lameness definitely hasn't improved and the meloxicam doesn't seem to be touching the pain- she wouldn't even get out of bed for a piece of soft cheese and she seems very flat. One of the other dogs (a foster dog) has started picking at her so we're now having to do the crate and rotate thing until alternate placement can be found for that dog. Unfortunately, access to specialists is very limited where we are so we're not going to be making any plans until we know what's there. My vet is worried it may have already spread and if that's the case, options are going to be very limited anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (((Maddy & Old Girl))) In my prayers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Thinking of you ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 If you feel the metacam is not helping you may wish to contact your vet before Wednesday and enquire about Tramadol. It can make them appear zoned out but it can be used concurrently with metacam and might give a better level of pain relief while you wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchnauzerMax Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Wouldn't an antihistamine help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightstar123 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Mast cell tumours are not typically very painful, although it sounds like there is a large amount of swelling. It also sounds like there could be other organs affected (the lameness may or may not be related, as you said), especially if her lymph nodes are enlarged If you feel she is very painful you could certainly ask your vet about adding in an opioid as well as the NSAID. Tramadol is good for moderate pain, other options that are popular for severe cancer pain are fentanyl patches, methadone or buprenorphine. At this stage it's better to slightly overdo pain relief in my opinion, since we don't really know what they are experiencing. Very sorry to hear that she is so flat too, right now I would be focusing on keeping her very comfortable and calm, delicious snacks/meals and lots and lots of cuddles :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I also suggest a vet visit before the weekend , as things always seem to be needed when the vet isn't around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 No luck with the slides that were sent off so my vet has suggested biopsy (of the mass itself and also the nearby lymph nodes as they're very swollen) and chest xrays, and she's booked in for that on this coming Wednesday. The lameness definitely hasn't improved and the meloxicam doesn't seem to be touching the pain- she wouldn't even get out of bed for a piece of soft cheese and she seems very flat. One of the other dogs (a foster dog) has started picking at her so we're now having to do the crate and rotate thing until alternate placement can be found for that dog. Unfortunately, access to specialists is very limited where we are so we're not going to be making any plans until we know what's there. My vet is worried it may have already spread and if that's the case, options are going to be very limited anyway. It isn't all bad news - there are things you can do. Our oncologist never laid eyes on Ollie. My old Ollie dog was dxd with multiple MCTs when he was 8 years old. The biggest was on his rump and was removed but even after having a second go to get clear margins, it didn't happen. He had numerous tumours removed - the more we removed, they were just replaced with more.. Our vet here in Queanbeyan liaised with the canine oncologist Rod Straw in Brisbane as he was one of the standout oncologists with MCT at the time. We also liaised by phone and email with a holistic vet in Sydney. Ollie had 6 months of chemo and was holistically treated with chinese herbs and supplements and a radical change in dietk. All the specialists and our vet said he had 12-18 months, maybe 2 years with the chemo - he lived 6 years. He had two other surgeries for MCTs and also developed another cancer in one of his toes that was very aggressive, so the toe was removed. That was his last surgery at 11 years old. From them on it was all palliative care and keeping him as well as we could and as happy as we could.. MCTs are renowned for going up and down - they are there one minute and gone the next, which is why they are so often missed. I have an old thread in the palliative care section of health for Ollie and it details diet and supplements that we used. I wish you loads of luck and positive thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Mast cell tumours are not typically very painful, although it sounds like there is a large amount of swelling. It also sounds like there could be other organs affected (the lameness may or may not be related, as you said), especially if her lymph nodes are enlarged If you feel she is very painful you could certainly ask your vet about adding in an opioid as well as the NSAID. Tramadol is good for moderate pain, other options that are popular for severe cancer pain are fentanyl patches, methadone or buprenorphine. At this stage it's better to slightly overdo pain relief in my opinion, since we don't really know what they are experiencing. Very sorry to hear that she is so flat too, right now I would be focusing on keeping her very comfortable and calm, delicious snacks/meals and lots and lots of cuddles :) Methadone and Buprenorphine would require multiple visits to the clinic each day for adequate pain control and fentanyl takes 24-48 hours to take effect. It would be better for optimal wound healing if the dog was on adequate pain relief (particularly if the owner feels the dog is showing signs of pain) prior to the commencement of surgery and yummy food is not an equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Good vibes here for your gangly boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnauzer Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 To offer you some hope my GSD had a very large MCT on his thigh removed with clear margins, grade two. He never got another one and lived until he was 14 yrs. Also one of my minis had about 7 removed over the years and lived to old age. We did ultrasound his organs to ensure it had not spread. Very best of luck x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinabean Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 How's the old girl going Maddy? Any results back yet on the biopsies and X-ray? I wonder if some of the mass is swelling? I seem to recall our vet saying that MCT's release histamines. My Boxer had a MCT removed from his ear a year ago. It wasn't as large as your girl's lump. It was maybe 1.5 cm diameter, a hard circular lump. It was grade 2 with dirty margins. If it returns Bruno will lose his ear. We've just had a new lump on his thigh aspirated today, hopefully it's nothing. Waiting for the pathology results is the worst part I think. Hopefully you will get some answers soon. Best of luck for the old girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinabean Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Hoping the old girl can be kept comfortable too Maddy. Just thought of another thing, even as Bruno's ear lump grew bigger, it didn't seem to be painful at all. Not sure if that's helpful at all. Just an observation about his MCT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 Just got a call back from our vet with the results of the biopsies we had done and the results are not good We had chest xrays done at the same time and they were clear so I was hopeful we'd be able to go ahead and have the thyroid removed. From what I understood, if removal was possible, she'd likely have a couple of years. Unfortunately, the tumour has spread into the veins and arteries nearby and when the biopsy was actually done, she bled very badly so removing the cancer is not going to be possible. The vet said she has weeks, maybe months, depending on how comfortable we can keep her. I'm just gutted I don't think I actually believed anything could really be wrong when she was so perfectly healthy before this. I guess I can at least be grateful that we can spend some time spoiling her before she goes. My weird, lovely old lady, Sally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harley Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Oh Maddy, I'm so sorry the results are not good She is such a pretty girl, may her time left be full of cuddles, love, warmth and happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Huge hugs to you and Sal my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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