Jed Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I recently found a Queensland site on facebook which is full of advertisements for unregistered staffordshire bull terriers, un registeredAmerican staffordshire terriers, and pitbulls. What is wrong with people? Do they not understand that councils can seize any of these dogs/pups and destroy them? Or do they not care? I am appalled that people can care so little for their dogs that they would breed solely to full black plastic bags at the pound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbedWire Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I couldn't agree more Jed. I think it's time that breeders' names were included on microchips so that they can be held responsible for some of those black bags. Unfortunately most of these dogs are probably not even microchipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 This is what happens when the breeding of certain dogs is made illegal. We can thank BSL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) A lot of people have no idea about the bans. A lot of people don't understand that the dogs they are breeding could get caught up in BSL for their appearance - as far as they are concerned they aren't Pit Bulls so why would they? Accidental litters A lot of people don't want to stop breeding them and see them wiped out. Others know and don't care. The blame isn't on these people though - the blame is on the lawmakers and BSL itself. Edited August 18, 2014 by melzawelza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I recently found a Queensland site on facebook which is full of advertisements for unregistered staffordshire bull terriers, un registeredAmerican staffordshire terriers, and pitbulls. What is wrong with people? Do they not understand that councils can seize any of these dogs/pups and destroy them? Or do they not care? I am appalled that people can care so little for their dogs that they would breed solely to full black plastic bags at the pound $$$$$$ The only thing that matters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) None of the litters advertised are accidental. None of the people wanting to stud their dog are doing anything less than deliberate. And whilst I agree totally with what others have said about BSL, and spent years fighting it --- now that it is law, surely people would keep their dogs safe? And not advertise them on a public site as red noses or amstaffs with no papers. *sigh* What a treasure trove for some of the more bloody minded Qld councils. Poor, poor dogs. Edited August 28, 2014 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricey Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Hi all, It is a bit sad, but there is always more than one side to an issue. I'd like to have another pit bull when my Hobbes shuffles off this mortal coil. Hobbes is 14, he has lived longer than most examples of his breed, he is deaf, and he is losing his sight. I will be devastated when he dies. I don't want an American Staffordshire terrier or Staffordshire bull terrier, I want another American Pit Bull terrier. And I kept Hobbes safely for 13 years in Western Australia, and he was never in danger, and never endangered another dog or human. Hobbes is the only one of my three dogs that I'd let my grandson play with (supervised of course; you can never fully trust your grand child). Owning a "pit bull" is no different to owning any other dog (except that you can never truthfully acknowledge your dog's actual breed). So what are my options for sourcing another American Pit Bull? Not that flash really. Hopefully I won't have to rely on dodgy Gumtree breeders as I have a few contacts in the pit bull world and also in the dog rescue world. But I'd really like a well bred American Pit Bull terrier from established and well respected lines such as Colby, and to do that is possible, but far too expensive for me. Me, I think there is justification for ignoring unjust laws. Gandhi called this "civil disobedience". My main concern with the people that are selling pit bulls on Facebook or Gumtree is that the dogs are not pit bulls. So what they are doing is probably fraud. Now fraud certainly is a crime, but if they were selling real American Pit Bull terriers to genuine buyers who would look after them I would not have too much of a problem. But they aren't; the pups will be bitzas and the buyers will be defrauded. And they will be at risk of losing their dogs as "pit bulls" even when they are not. Just a touch ironic. And so sad for the dogs. I was in two minds whether to post this as I really have not fully thought this through, but hey! What the hell? If there are people breeding genuine pure bred American Pit Bull terriers in Australia and selling them to knowledgeable dog owners who know how to look after them and keep them, I say "good on you!" I know of a couple of American Pit Bull terrier breeders who continue to breed the occasional litter in Australia. They are fanatical in ensuring that their pups go to people who will look after them. They do not advertise on Facebook or Gumtree. And maybe I will contact them when the time comes. Or maybe I will rely on my rescue contacts for my next American Pit Bull terrier as there is a shit load of American Pit Bull terriers up for rehoming in Australia (except that they are called "staffy crosses" or "Am Staff crosses" as the truth is too hard and a death sentence for the dogs). ricey p.s. yeah, so sorry, I do not want to cause offense; I just wanted to air my views even though I have not fully thought through just what my position on this issue is. My position is a bit of a "work in progress" LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 One question - how would you register your pup? I have no quibble with the breed; love them. And you sound like an owner who understands the breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbi Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Ricey, what a shame that more owners are not like you. A number of years ago I had the pleasure to meet a Pit Bull terrier owned by a person like you. A better behaved dog I have never met, I feel sick when I think of these dogs being targeted and killed due to bsl and irresponsible owners. Hobbes sounds like a very special dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I want all those people who are breeding un-registered BSTs and Amstaffs to have to go and spend time in their local pound or RSPCA, black tagging those that are going to be pts, isolating them, holding them still as the injection is administered, removing all the collars and leashes after they are dead and putting their stiffening bodies into a garbage bag. I want them to look into the fearful eyes of all those wonderful unwanted dogs and watch them draw their last breath. I want them to be so affected they finally understand why their breeding practices prove they do not 'love the breed' one little bit and that all they were doing is making money off the pain and suffering of innocent animals. But of course I live in fantasy land..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I didn't realise you still had Hobbes Ricey - do you have any photo's of him now to share? Bless him 14 is a good age. My old SBT Ollie, passed away at 14.5 but he fought mast cell cancer for 6 of those years. He was mostly deaf (or very selectively, he could still hear a biscuit packet from 10 metres away) and couldn't see of a night. We put those plug in night lights in the power points, so he could get around of a night. I lost him back in October 2011 - still miss his face, every single day. I did find this blockhead to keep me company, about a week after losing Ollie. Meet Ziggy, generic brindle pound mutt/obedience superstar :) That is Zig at the back and his last foster sister Bella (she was a gem and if I wasn't in NSW, would have kept her in a heartbeat).. Ziggy and Bella Doggie park fun by jamoore photos, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) A number of years ago I had the pleasure to meet a Pit Bull terrier owned by a person like you. A better behaved dog I have never met, I feel sick when I think of these dogs being targeted and killed due to bsl and irresponsible owners. My experience, too, when I found a lost Pit Bull girl running along the fenceline playing with our tibetan spaniels. All tails wagging! Turned out she & her spaniel-type 'sister' had strayed out of a yard where their family, passing thro; the city, were staying. She was a sweetheart ... beautiful colour, too. I had to hold her by the collar while things were organised to find her owners (which we did). She was a real 'angel' watching out for her daffy 'sister'. I'd say she was one of the nicest dogs I've met. Edited November 11, 2014 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackun Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Ricey, there are some well bred pups for sale that I know, pm if you interested. I got a pit bull pup my self. The hell with the restriction, they would have to kill me to take my pup away and kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 No blackbun, they will come when you are out, drag your pup away, put him in the cold cold pound, and you will have to prove to them that he is not a pitbull .... which you will not be able to do, so he will become one of those stiffening dogs in the black plastic bags. I do understand and appreciate your wish to have the breed you want (and Ricey) - no one knows better how if feel about BSL, but putting your dog in danger should not be an option. WA is safe, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackun Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) That a ok, I have plenty of black plastic bags too, and a cold cold room. My four legged daughter is safe on my property, dangers from intruders is some thing every one lives with. She knows very well I will protect her. Edited February 4, 2015 by blackun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Unfortunately Blackun if you live in Victoria council officers and police can enter your property (including your house) and take the dog even if you're not there. All they need is a complaint or a suspicion that your dog is a restricted breed. I truly hope it never happens to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackun Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Its the council job not police job to enforce or check if it's a pit bull, that's a council job to identify, police would only come if there was an attack, not because you think your neighbour has a pit bull or stuffy looking dog. Even then if it's registered as staffy x, and registered, no one can take it. I dealt with this issue long enough to know all sides to it. Even I couldn't tell if my neighbours dog is a pit bull could well be amstaff, unless I saw breeding of parents and papers you could not say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Its the council job not police job to enforce or check if it's a pit bull, that's a council job to identify, police would only come if there was an attack, not because you think your neighbour has a pit bull or stuffy looking dog. Even then if it's registered as staffy x, and registered, no one can take it. I dealt with this issue long enough to know all sides to it. Even I couldn't tell if my neighbours dog is a pit bull could well be amstaff, unless I saw breeding of parents and papers you could not say. The police issue the warrant on request of the council to enter your house to take the dog, and then have to attend with the council officers to seize the dog. One of the high profile dogs in Victoria was seized in this manner. The owners were not home, and the council and police entered the house with a warrant and seized the dog. He was so terrified he shat himself Registration as another breed will only stop seizure if the dog existed in Victoria prior to the amnesty ending (which was late 2011). If the dog is younger than that then the council can declare it restricted and therefore destroy it. Of course you can fight any declaration in VCAT and even up to the supreme court as many have, and have succeeded. It's not fun though. Not trying to scare you, but you have a false sense of security on the legislation in your state. You live in the state with the strongest BSL in the country, which gives you almost no rights and relies on you having to prove your dog to be not of a restricted breed. Hopefully the recent huge wins of dogs going home (and councils paying hundreds of thousands of dollars) will mean councils are much more reluctant to enforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Here is a link to Tonka's VCAT decision which describes the manner in which he was seized and the lead up to that. Tonka VCAT decision This excerpt is what I was talking about: On 17 February 2012, Council officers went to Mr Smith’s home with Victoria Police, who had obtained a warrant to enter Mr Smith’s property. They entered Mr Smith’s flat by force, and removed Tonka whilst Mr Smith was out, and no other person was present. Tonka was then placed in a pound. They only need a warrant to enter your house. If the dog is in the front or back yard they can just hop the fence and take it. Luckily he won in VCAT and went home. Edited February 6, 2015 by melzawelza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackun Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 But my dog is a pit bull I'm not fighting to prove its not, and I'm gonna keep it, it has the natural law and right to live and keep breathing the air of victoria, despite what man says. Bsl is toughest in Victoria, and so are pit bull owners. We will see if the gov will swap a dog for a dog thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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