Lunalura Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Hi all, i'm new to the forum and just wanted to ask for some advice. I also posted on the Dachshund thread, but didn't get any replies, so thought i'd post here instead where more people may see it. My partner and I have been looking for a mini dachshund pup for months. We eventually come across a breeder who had a little fawn/isabella female available that we liked, so were very excited about that. We found the breeder listed on dogzonline, so thought there shouldn't be any issues being a registered breeder etc. I emailed back and forth a few times, asking some initial questions and all went well there. But then was suddenly told another party was interested and that a deposit would need to placed to secure her. As we didn't have much time to think about it, and didn't want to miss out on her, we put down $500 of the $2000 about 3 weeks ago (the puppy is ready on the first weekend in September). I asked if this was refundable, and was told only $250 was refundable if we change our minds, or 100% refundable if the puppy didn't pass her vet check for whatever reason. Being an excited new mum i'd posted up the initial photo i'd received to facebook etc. Another breeder ended up contacting me about her, and informed me that the Isabella color can actually have skin/hair problems as they age. However ever since I put down the deposit 3 weeks ago i've had hardly ANY contact from the breeder. I'd asked some more questions, plus was promised weekly photo updates. After sending multiple emails I eventually heard back from her yesterday with some more photos. Overall she hasn't really asked me anything about myself, which is a bit concerning, as I know i'd be finding out as much as possible from buyers if I were a breeder. The issue is that the breeder never once said anything about the linked colour condition to me. If we had of known this originally we probably would have moved on and looked for something different, instead of putting down the deposit. I've emailed her again since finding this out, so now just waiting on her reply. But what happens in the case she refuses my refund?! I'd like to give the benefit on the doubt, but since doing some more looking around i've heard some not so good things about this lady. Here's the pup in question, and assuming the adult is either mum or dad. Is this actually an isabella, what are your thoughts? Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Edited August 16, 2014 by Lunalura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 hi, and welcome :) Hopefully you will get some help - but firstly , may I suggest you remove the breeder's name /prefix from the post? (and, if the photos are not yours ..perhaps they need to go as well This forum is owned/run by a very nice person ..and this means that if the S*** ever hits the fan - HE is the one who can be sued , etc . :( That is unfair - so ,we all try to make queries as unspecific as we can in the public eye . Also - breeders listed on here have no guarantee they are ethical /the best ... it is merely an advertisement ... It is an awful thing when you have your heart set on a puppy ,then strike all sorts of problems . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunalura Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) I didn't realise naming wasn't allowed, i'll go ahead and edit my post. I just wanted to see if anyone else had dealings with this particular person is all. Edited August 16, 2014 by Lunalura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 You can ask generally about breeders know to breed XYZ dogs/colours ..and then ask individuals via the private message system :) That works well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Oh ..and to find out how different breeders advertise/inform prospective clients - go to the DOL puppies for sale page . Look for a breed ..open teh page . pick a breeder name/prefix ..in BLUE click on that , & just see what they have written in their profile . Everyone is different ..some have heaps of good info ..and some prefer to not disclose anything .Without a particular type/colour/sex in mind - read the blurbs , and see who you think you would then contact? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunalura Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) I heard back from the breeder this morning, and my deposit is NOT being refunded as she quoted : "The deposit is not refundable and I have no reason to believe that you will ever have a problem with her coat." My partner and I have been thinking over the last few days, that we do still want her. However since the breeder is being completely unreasonable about the refund issue, and that she is so confident nothing will happen - we've asked her to drawn up / sign / date a note saying that she will reimburse any vet fees in the case the puppy develops colour dilution Alopecia at any point in her life. So will wait to hear what she says about this, have a feeling this will be refused too! Edited August 18, 2014 by Lunalura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassie Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I think you've got your answer, this will likely be refused too. I am unfamiliar with the condition; is it a fault? Is it the result of a mating that shouldn't happen? I would chalk the $250 up to experience, and an expensive mistake, and move on. NEVER pay a deposit until you are 150% sure of the breeder and the pup. Many don't pay deposits at all (many breeders don't take them anyway) and just pay the full amount on collection of pup. Sounds like you were uneasy with the breeder from the start, since like you say she knows nothing about you. I know it's hard when cute pictures are involved! But sometimes it's a case of thinking with your head not your heart. Sorry you're having to go through this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Yes I agree with Cassie. Before you get your puppy you want to have 100% confidence in your breeder. I really have no idea about the problem you are talking about unfortunately, but it sounds as though there are other things making you uncomfortable anyway. One of the good things about a responsible breeder is that they offer you support even after you bring your puppy home. Would you feel comfortable calling this breeder if something was worrying you about the puppy and that they would help you? Do you know about health tests for Dachies and whether the breeder does them at all? That would be one of the first things I'd look into when getting a puppy :) if they don't tick that box then there's no need for further investigation, just move on to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I think you've got your answer, this will likely be refused too. I am unfamiliar with the condition; is it a fault? Is it the result of a mating that shouldn't happen? I would chalk the $250 up to experience, and an expensive mistake, and move on. NEVER pay a deposit until you are 150% sure of the breeder and the pup. Many don't pay deposits at all (many breeders don't take them anyway) and just pay the full amount on collection of pup. Sounds like you were uneasy with the breeder from the start, since like you say she knows nothing about you. I know it's hard when cute pictures are involved! But sometimes it's a case of thinking with your head not your heart. Sorry you're having to go through this I 100% agree with this. Cut your loses and run. Also this is what the ANKC breed standard for Dachshund says "Pied, tricolour and the dilute colours isabella and blue are highly undesirable" So I would be questioning why this breeder has bred them at all. I suggest familiarising yourself with the standard linked, and finding a breeder that breeds to it. Hopefully someone in Dachshunds reads this and can point you to a reputable breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Why introduce a new puppy when there are queries /concerns? My partner and I have been thinking over the last few days, that we do still want her. However since the breeder is being completely unreasonable about the refund issue, and that she is so confident nothing will happen - we've asked her to drawn up / sign / date a note saying that she will reimburse any vet fees in the case the puppy develops colour dilution Alopecia at any point in her life. So will wait to hear what she says about this, have a feeling this will be refused too! You will have many many years with any pup you buy - why not buy a puppy who comes with a good pedigree - whose family are known, and are health tested..and have been bred by someone keen to make their breed BETTER /Stronger/Healthier... not breeding cute sounding colours and probably asking for extra money because of it( and being supported by new/impulse buy owners) ? I wish you a healthy puppy - whichever way you go ... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunalura Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) It certainly wasn't an impulse buy, we've been thinking about a new pup for almost 12 months now, and after deciding on a mini dachshund have been doing a lot of research on the breed in the meantime. After contacting quite a number of breeders, this is the only one we found available that suited us so we settled for her. (longhair, non red, female). It's not as easy as just walking away though, we're going through a tough spot with money at the moment and $250 is a lot to lose if we just walked away. We do have extra put away, but this is for vaccinations, food, worming, desexing fees etc. Other than the possible skin issue, she looks like a healthy pup - and I did make sure at least one parent was tested for PRA to rule out that issue aswell. There's also an attachment formed now since we were certain we'd be bringing her home, and it's a bit sad to think we may not get her. So we're willing to take the risk, however in future we'll be doing a lot more research on specific breeders. I'll keep you all updated on her, she'll be here on the first weekend of September so hopefully lots of photos and stories to come. :) Edited August 18, 2014 by Lunalura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Have you actually had a conversation with this breeder? There are millions of alarm bells going off in your posts and I would be cutting my losses and starting again if you have your heart set on this particular breed. It will be much easier to walk away now rather than later on if things don't go well. Be aware that one parent being tested does not mean the pup is unaffected. One parent can be tested a carrier and if the other parent's status is unknown, you are asking for trouble. I suspect PRA will be the least of your concerns if you go ahead with this pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Have you actually had a conversation with this breeder? There are millions of alarm bells going off in your posts and I would be cutting my losses and starting again if you have your heart set on this particular breed. It will be much easier to walk away now rather than later on if things don't go well. Be aware that one parent being tested does not mean the pup is unaffected. One parent can be tested a carrier and if the other parent's status is unknown, you are asking for trouble. I suspect PRA will be the least of your concerns if you go ahead with this pup. Hopefully all will be well ..BUT: have you luna, spoken with the breeder and discussed what information/support they give? Do you know if these puppies are well handled/raised indoors ? have you actually seen the parents- or photos of the actual mother with her pups? Is the pup on mains or limited register? the impulse buyers ( I was being general) are one of the mainstays of breeders in it for financial gain . A lot of these breeders may have more than one "cute/novel " breed - so there are often/always really appealing puppies around with something a bit different - be it colour /'mini/teacup' "rare" I know, I know - we are all being snarky and pessimistic :p In the years this forum's been supporting people - so many new puppy buyers could have avoided a lot of vet bills/heartache .... $250 IS a lot of money -- but I think it could be saved fairly painlessly by - making beds ,instead of buying ... using household things for toys when pup is very small - avoid buying blingy stuff/clothing for pup ..just a suggestion if you ARE still undecided ... that's all. Of course I do not wish for a pup who needs lots of vet visits - I hope the pup you bring home is hale & hearty!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Not that price matters in the long run but if that is what you are worried about, $2000 seems like a high price for a pet puppy with undesirable traits (again, perhaps someone in the breed could jump in). But just by looking at some puppy ads, I would think that perhaps you could find a puppy from a better breeder for a lower cost even if you do give up your deposit. Edited August 18, 2014 by LisaCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightstar123 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Colour dilution alopecia certainly is pretty common in fawn Dachsunds, with hair loss beginning around 3 years of age typically. Dogs can have complete hair loss by middle age. Secondary bacterial infections are common and the condition generally requires life long management. Charging $2000 for a pup with an undesirable coat colour which could definitely lead to an expensive, life-long medical condition is very unethical, in my opinion. Even though it is usually more severe in Dobermanns, it's similar and I've never heard of Dobermann breeders charging more for fawn pups! Perhaps Dobermann breeders could comment? If the pup is affected by alopecia you will end up spending more on treatment than $250. As others have said, I would walk away, as this is a dubious sounding breeder indeed. She looks very cute but I'm sure you will find another pup that's just as cute and without the concern of ongoing medical problems :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercedes Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I have to agree with LisaCC, $2000 does seem very high... It only took me 5 minutes of googling the Isabella colour to understand that she has an extremely high chance of getting skin conditions, hair loss and/or autoimmune diseases. Have you met the parents and even possibly grandparents in person? Are any of them this colour? (and in which case a reputable breeder wouldn't breed from them). Good on you for asking for the clause about them paying the vet bills! If your breeder is so confident they should put their money where their mouth is :) Sounds like you have made up your mind though, so all the best for your new pup and I look forward to seeing cute pics soon. Do you have a name for her yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hi all, i'm new to the forum and just wanted to ask for some advice. I also posted on the Dachshund thread, but didn't get any replies, so thought i'd post here instead where more people may see it. My partner and I have been looking for a mini dachshund pup for months. We eventually come across a breeder who had a little fawn/isabella female available that we liked, so were very excited about that. We found the breeder listed on dogzonline, so thought there shouldn't be any issues being a registered breeder etc. I emailed back and forth a few times, asking some initial questions and all went well there. But then was suddenly told another party was interested and that a deposit would need to placed to secure her. As we didn't have much time to think about it, and didn't want to miss out on her, we put down $500 of the $2000 about 3 weeks ago (the puppy is ready on the first weekend in September). I asked if this was refundable, and was told only $250 was refundable if we change our minds, or 100% refundable if the puppy didn't pass her vet check for whatever reason. This is a really horrible trick that can be done to unsuspecting puppy buyers. They get conned into paying over money to acquire a puppy that may not even be medically fit. Were you told in writing or verbally of the conditions of the deposit? I may sound blunt but it's not to hurt either you or your partner. If this is not a fully registered dog with the Queensland Canine Council, ie, a puppy on Mains Register, you are over paying the price for the dog. Read very very carefully that post by brightstar123. Unless you are given fully documented paperwork of correct testing of parents, this wee puppy may not be worth the risk of potentially high medical costs. I could not wish anyone to have to deal with a sick dog because of a breeder's failure to be reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Not that price matters in the long run but if that is what you are worried about, $2000 seems like a high price for a pet puppy with undesirable traits (again, perhaps someone in the breed could jump in). But just by looking at some puppy ads, I would think that perhaps you could find a puppy from a better breeder for a lower cost even if you do give up your deposit. Yes exactly! And honestly $250 can easily be spent in one visit to the vet; and if you get an unhealthy dog you're going to be paying that many times over unfortunately I have known of dogs with severe skin problems and it's not an easy thing to manage for the owner and can be very hard on the dog. It's not something I would wish on anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Skin problems are an absolute pain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 If the CDA in dachies is like CDA in dobes there probably won't be any associated health issues, just balding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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