Bondi Vet "sachi" Dog Attack Victim

[BarbedWire]

Sarsaparilla, perhaps it would benefit you to stop thinking so much about the size and breed of dogs (you have said you are scared of pit bulls and don't like small dogs) and focus on the behaviour and temperament of the individual dogs you meet. Maybe you could attend an obedience club or training classes run by a good trainer and learn more about dog behaviour and body language so you are better placed to make informed judgements.

Actually SG I have trialled successfully for many years. On my bookcase I have the following books. The other end of the leash, For the love of a dog, Calming signals (Turid Rugaas), Bones would rain from the sky, Don't shoot the dog, Control unleashed, Canine body language (Brenda Aloff) and others. I also have Alexandra Horowitz's Inside of a dog on order. From memory I said I don't particularly like small dogs. I don't know how to go back and check. I like all animals. I have owned horses for many years and I have always had dogs and I am fairly confident I am much older than you are which means I have been around dogs for a long time.

eta I have also got books by Gwen Bailey and Donaldson's Mine and a book by Koehler which I would not recommend to anyone.

eta also Morgan Spector's book on Clicker Training

Edited August 10, 2014 by sarsaparilla

[Simply Grand]

Sarsaparilla, perhaps it would benefit you to stop thinking so much about the size and breed of dogs (you have said you are scared of pit bulls and don't like small dogs) and focus on the behaviour and temperament of the individual dogs you meet. Maybe you could attend an obedience club or training classes run by a good trainer and learn more about dog behaviour and body language so you are better placed to make informed judgements.

Actually SG I have trialled successfully for many years. On my bookcase I have the following books. The other end of the leash, For the love of a dog, Calming signals (Turid Rugaas), Bones would rain from the sky, Don't shoot the dog, Control unleashed, Canine body language (Brenda Aloff) and others. I also have Alexandra Horowitz's Inside of a dog on order. From memory I said I don't particularly like small dogs. I don't know how to go back and check. I like all animals. I have owned horses for many years and I have always had dogs and I am fairly confident I am much older than you are which means I have been around dogs for a long time.

eta I have also got books by Gwen Bailey and Donaldson's Mine and a book by Koehler which I would not recommend to anyone.

And yet you seem to have serious fears around some of them based on media reports? I'm not sure how you are assessing my age but you may well be much older than I am, but it sounds like I am more confident around dogs than you are, based on what you've posted.

[RiverStar-Aura]

Sarsaparilla, perhaps it would benefit you to stop thinking so much about the size and breed of dogs (you have said you are scared of pit bulls and don't like small dogs) and focus on the behaviour and temperament of the individual dogs you meet. Maybe you could attend an obedience club or training classes run by a good trainer and learn more about dog behaviour and body language so you are better placed to make informed judgements.

Actually SG I have trialled successfully for many years. On my bookcase I have the following books. The other end of the leash, For the love of a dog, Calming signals (Turid Rugaas), Bones would rain from the sky, Don't shoot the dog, Control unleashed, Canine body language (Brenda Aloff) and others. I also have Alexandra Horowitz's Inside of a dog on order. From memory I said I don't particularly like small dogs. I don't know how to go back and check. I like all animals. I have owned horses for many years and I have always had dogs and I am fairly confident I am much older than you are which means I have been around dogs for a long time.

eta I have also got books by Gwen Bailey and Donaldson's Mine and a book by Koehler which I would not recommend to anyone.

eta also Morgan Spector's book on Clicker Training

Well in that case ...

DOLers, I think we've all just been PWNED here.

[Simply Grand]

I saw parts of the program too. That small dog, if it wasn't already, will now most likely be a reactive dog. It suffered awful injuries and was obviously in a lot of pain. Its owner was also in a bad way.

It is not okay for any dog to attack another dog, no matter what size. It is not excusable for a big dog to attack a small dog because it was provoked or vice versa. Owners of big dogs need to be very wary because their dogs can do so much damage. That doesn't mean that it is okay for smaller dogs to be aggressive either. Some smaller dogs suffer from fear aggression because of past frightening experiences with big dogs or because they feel that their owners are not capable of protecting them.

Did you see the other news item in NSW where a man had his finger bitten off by a dog which in the footage I saw looked like a pitbull?

Sorry, but your attitude really pisses me off. No dog with aggression related issues should be in a dog park no matter what size it is and if it picks on a bigger dog then it is not unreasonable for the bigger dog to defend itself. A bigger dog should not have to stand there and just take being attacked simply because the attacking dog is smaller than it. Small dog owners need to take just as much responsibility for their dogs and their dog's behaviour as every other dog owner. My dog is fear aggressive (although doesn't bite, only puts on reactive displays). Would it be okay for me to take my dog in to a dog park, let him start a fight and then cry foul because the dog he started a fight with fought back and happened to be bigger than him? No, it wouldn't and if you were in that park you would no doubt be screaming about my vicious bull breed being in a dog park and starting fights. It's no different when it's a smaller dog and being fear aggressive is not an acceptable excuse. It is the owner's job to make sure their dog isn't put in situations where it has the opportunity to start fights and it is the owner's job to protect their dog both from hurting others or being hurt.

I also take issue with your comment about the finger being bitten off and to you it looking like it was a pit bull. You made that comment with no real idea what breed the dog was and made assumptions and a statement that just perpetuates the the vicious pit bull myth that has been whipped up in to a frenzy by the media. We know you have an irrational fear of "pit bulls' but don't use your bias to further tarnish their reputation if you don't actually know what the breed of dog is that you're talking about.

ETA: My dog is fear aggressive/reactive because of dogs like the one that started the fight in the dog park and yes, small aggressive dogs have contributed to his fear.

Give me a break Snook. In my post I said I only saw part of the program. I did not know it happened in a dog park.

The very first post says it happened in a dog park and even if it wasn't a dog park, that doesn't mean the small dog should be allowed to start fights with other dogs and any dog bigger than it be expected to just stand there and take it.

Snook Nowhere have I said it is okay for a small dog to attack another dog. It is not okay for any dog to attack another dog, no matter what size.

BTW I have owned large dogs and I was always very careful with them because I did not want them in trouble. I am also careful with my medium sized dogs too. I do not own a small dog and I don't particularly like them.

Here's your previous quote, you can just go back through the pages of the thread to see what you've said. Yes you did say you don't particularly like small dogs, which you define in another post as under 10 kgs.

[BarbedWire]

Sarsaparilla, perhaps it would benefit you to stop thinking so much about the size and breed of dogs (you have said you are scared of pit bulls and don't like small dogs) and focus on the behaviour and temperament of the individual dogs you meet. Maybe you could attend an obedience club or training classes run by a good trainer and learn more about dog behaviour and body language so you are better placed to make informed judgements.

Actually SG I have trialled successfully for many years. On my bookcase I have the following books. The other end of the leash, For the love of a dog, Calming signals (Turid Rugaas), Bones would rain from the sky, Don't shoot the dog, Control unleashed, Canine body language (Brenda Aloff) and others. I also have Alexandra Horowitz's Inside of a dog on order. From memory I said I don't particularly like small dogs. I don't know how to go back and check. I like all animals. I have owned horses for many years and I have always had dogs and I am fairly confident I am much older than you are which means I have been around dogs for a long time.

eta I have also got books by Gwen Bailey and Donaldson's Mine and a book by Koehler which I would not recommend to anyone.

eta also Morgan Spector's book on Clicker Training

Well in that case ...

DOLers, I think we've all just been PWNED here.

I do not know what PWNED means and I am not so arrogant that I am going to pretend that I do.

[RiverStar-Aura]

Sarsaparilla, perhaps it would benefit you to stop thinking so much about the size and breed of dogs (you have said you are scared of pit bulls and don't like small dogs) and focus on the behaviour and temperament of the individual dogs you meet. Maybe you could attend an obedience club or training classes run by a good trainer and learn more about dog behaviour and body language so you are better placed to make informed judgements.

Actually SG I have trialled successfully for many years. On my bookcase I have the following books. The other end of the leash, For the love of a dog, Calming signals (Turid Rugaas), Bones would rain from the sky, Don't shoot the dog, Control unleashed, Canine body language (Brenda Aloff) and others. I also have Alexandra Horowitz's Inside of a dog on order. From memory I said I don't particularly like small dogs. I don't know how to go back and check. I like all animals. I have owned horses for many years and I have always had dogs and I am fairly confident I am much older than you are which means I have been around dogs for a long time.

eta I have also got books by Gwen Bailey and Donaldson's Mine and a book by Koehler which I would not recommend to anyone.

eta also Morgan Spector's book on Clicker Training

Well in that case ...

DOLers, I think we've all just been PWNED here.

I do not know what PWNED means and I am not so arrogant that I am going to pretend that I do.

PWNED defined

Edited August 10, 2014 by RiverStar-Aura

[BarbedWire]

Sarsaparilla, perhaps it would benefit you to stop thinking so much about the size and breed of dogs (you have said you are scared of pit bulls and don't like small dogs) and focus on the behaviour and temperament of the individual dogs you meet. Maybe you could attend an obedience club or training classes run by a good trainer and learn more about dog behaviour and body language so you are better placed to make informed judgements.

Actually SG I have trialled successfully for many years. On my bookcase I have the following books. The other end of the leash, For the love of a dog, Calming signals (Turid Rugaas), Bones would rain from the sky, Don't shoot the dog, Control unleashed, Canine body language (Brenda Aloff) and others. I also have Alexandra Horowitz's Inside of a dog on order. From memory I said I don't particularly like small dogs. I don't know how to go back and check. I like all animals. I have owned horses for many years and I have always had dogs and I am fairly confident I am much older than you are which means I have been around dogs for a long time.

eta I have also got books by Gwen Bailey and Donaldson's Mine and a book by Koehler which I would not recommend to anyone.

eta also Morgan Spector's book on Clicker Training

Well in that case ...

DOLers, I think we've all just been PWNED here.

I do not know what PWNED means and I am not so arrogant that I am going to pretend that I do.

PWNED defined

Thankyou

[Tibbie_tabbie]

I was at the off lead park the other day and a guy came in with a westie (I love Westies by the way) his dog is snarling at the fence and he looks at my Husky and asks "if my dog is alright ?" I replied that yes he is, and asked him "if his was?"... he kind of looked at me like I was crazy. He then comes in and his dog charges mine, snapping snarling and lunging... it was very very full on. My dog snarled back but I removed him quickly so nothing could escalate. He pulled out his lead and was about to belt his Westie. I told him DONT!

He left but later came back by himself and apologised about the incident.

There is also a lady that lives across the road from me that has a SWF which has had a go at my dog twice, she is a knuckle-head and continues to walk her dog off lead on the streets. The other day it tore across the road to get at my leashed dog. A car was coming and I just watched in horror. It literally must have missed by 1 or 2cm. I was in shock. The woman called her dog back and I just showed her with my fingers how close it was. She was distraught so I didn't take it any further.

My point is that if anything happened to these small dogs, my Husky would certainly get the blame. I am lucky that he is very non-reactive but he is also very powerful and I dread the day when some dumb owner has a small dog actually get his teeth on mine, I am sure it would be game over

While a husky doesn't have as much of a stigma as "Bull breeds" (for lack of a better term) some people still think that I am walking a wolf!

Would this by any chance be a dog called 'Fluffy'?

We've had the same problem, but if you don't look (nor your dog, you have to do a 'look at me' command) at it it doesn't tend to come over. Also if it does start a loud 'uh uh!' stops it in it's tracks.... So annoying though, I've worked so hard with my 'little terrier' on her reactivity.

Her owner doesn't seem to get it, she told me 'we live right there' one time like that made it alright and then another time she held a screaming 'fluffy' and made it 'wave' at my two so they could become friends........ : O

[trinabean]

No dogs don't have a right to attack, but if the small dog picked a fight a dog may well have reacted that would normally not.

I note sympathy towards a small dog who is obviously reactive and provocative and got a reaction that ended up with it in trouble, but you then bring in a different story about a bloke who lost a finger becasue the dog looked like a pit bull to you.

Really - we have figured you don't like them. I work with dogs every day and I have worked with pitbulls. I have one who is terrified by fluffy small dogs. He is the least aggressive dog of any breed or size anywhere I have met. He is a big gooey eyed dope. I have had many dogs try to bite me and trust me Pitbulls are not the ones I am on high alert for!

Well said OSoswift. Frankly, all the bull-breed bashing on the forum lately is getting tiresome. And spare a thought for the OP, who started this thread on a positive note. Yet again, it descends into this. The third breed-denigrating thread in as many days.

[OSoSwift]

With one common thing.....................

[Yonjuro]

I was at the off lead park the other day and a guy came in with a westie (I love Westies by the way) his dog is snarling at the fence and he looks at my Husky and asks "if my dog is alright ?" I replied that yes he is, and asked him "if his was?"... he kind of looked at me like I was crazy. He then comes in and his dog charges mine, snapping snarling and lunging... it was very very full on. My dog snarled back but I removed him quickly so nothing could escalate. He pulled out his lead and was about to belt his Westie. I told him DONT!

He left but later came back by himself and apologised about the incident.

There is also a lady that lives across the road from me that has a SWF which has had a go at my dog twice, she is a knuckle-head and continues to walk her dog off lead on the streets. The other day it tore across the road to get at my leashed dog. A car was coming and I just watched in horror. It literally must have missed by 1 or 2cm. I was in shock. The woman called her dog back and I just showed her with my fingers how close it was. She was distraught so I didn't take it any further.

My point is that if anything happened to these small dogs, my Husky would certainly get the blame. I am lucky that he is very non-reactive but he is also very powerful and I dread the day when some dumb owner has a small dog actually get his teeth on mine, I am sure it would be game over

While a husky doesn't have as much of a stigma as "Bull breeds" (for lack of a better term) some people still think that I am walking a wolf!

Would this by any chance be a dog called 'Fluffy'?

We've had the same problem, but if you don't look (nor your dog, you have to do a 'look at me' command) at it it doesn't tend to come over. Also if it does start a loud 'uh uh!' stops it in it's tracks.... So annoying though, I've worked so hard with my 'little terrier' on her reactivity.

Her owner doesn't seem to get it, she told me 'we live right there' one time like that made it alright and then another time she held a screaming 'fluffy' and made it 'wave' at my two so they could become friends........ : O

LOL I think it is called Fluffy I will do the Uh uh next time :) It drives me bonkers with dogs off lead on the streets. I will probably have words if it happens again. I really don't want the poor little thing to get hurt by a car or dog, especially mine.

[Tibbie_tabbie]

Yep, same one then lol! There is a bit of a language barrier so I'm not sure the owner understands what I'm trying to say. So scary when it tries to cross the road : (

[carolineh1]

Well said OSoswift. Frankly, all the bull-breed bashing on the forum lately is getting tiresome. And spare a thought for the OP, who started this thread on a positive note. Yet again, it descends into this. The third breed-denigrating thread in as many days

I've watched that happen in a few threads recently and it is a real shame - both for the dogs and for the people who time and again comment, turning it into a flame war regardless of the original post or topic

[Brandiandwe]

You guys must live right near me because we have two different fluffies who have done the same thing. In one case, they now carry a retractable leash. Which makes everything ok. Sigh.

I didn't see Bondi a Vet, but how nice to hear about some more balanced reporting.

[Rosetta]

No dogs don't have a right to attack, but if the small dog picked a fight a dog may well have reacted that would normally not.

I note sympathy towards a small dog who is obviously reactive and provocative and got a reaction that ended up with it in trouble, but you then bring in a different story about a bloke who lost a finger becasue the dog looked like a pit bull to you.

Really - we have figured you don't like them. I work with dogs every day and I have worked with pitbulls. I have one who is terrified by fluffy small dogs. He is the least aggressive dog of any breed or size anywhere I have met. He is a big gooey eyed dope. I have had many dogs try to bite me and trust me Pitbulls are not the ones I am on high alert for!

Well said OSoswift. Frankly, all the bull-breed bashing on the forum lately is getting tiresome. And spare a thought for the OP, who started this thread on a positive note. Yet again, it descends into this. The third breed-denigrating thread in as many days.

Almost as much as the swf bashing :) Really everyone should just get a grip. I am sure the little dog in the original post has paid the price for its "transgressions" and - as usual - is a victim of idiot owners.

[Nic oh lah]

Actually SG I have trialled successfully for many years. On my bookcase I have the following books. The other end of the leash, For the love of a dog, Calming signals (Turid Rugaas), Bones would rain from the sky, Don't shoot the dog, Control unleashed, Canine body language (Brenda Aloff) and others. I also have Alexandra Horowitz's Inside of a dog on order. From memory I said I don't particularly like small dogs. I don't know how to go back and check. I like all animals. I have owned horses for many years and I have always had dogs and I am fairly confident I am much older than you are which means I have been around dogs for a long time.

I've read Game of Thrones - by your logic i'd make an excellent mother of dragons.

eta I have also got books by Gwen Bailey and Donaldson's Mine and a book by Koehler which I would not recommend to anyone.

eta also Morgan Spector's book on Clicker Training

Also I wouldn't recommend How to Kill A Mockingbird to anyone - you learn next to nothing about killing mockingbirds.

I've met some beautiful registered and "declared" APBT's as well as dogs of all breeds and sizes, and some that aren't beautiful because of their shitty or mis-informed owners. One thing I (i think everyone who knows their dogs?) know is that if you as the owner are fearful, your dog can definately pick up on it and will act accordingly - based on here and the "scary Dog" thread you instigated, you and your dog/s are a ticking time-bomb. Get educated - and maybe get your information on breed specifics from somewhere other than the media and your bookshelf.

End rant.

[YippeeGirl]

I watched this program last night, and based on the owners talking about their dog yapping at other dogs, I suspected that they weren't just attacked randomly while out on a walk. Unfortunately, when they were sitting in the waiting room and the dog was barking at everything in what some dogs would consider quite a confrontational manner, it didn't seem like they had learned much at all.

Some dogs just have a very low tolerance for that sort of rude 'in your face' behaviour. Two of our German Shepherds will not put up with rude dogs. They don't physically attack them, but they will snap and growl if boundaries continue to be pushed. It's why I don't take them to dog parks or areas likely to be frequented by people with dogs off leash. Too many dogs out there have bad manners, ignorant owners, and I know with the breed I own, my dogs are going to come off the bad guys regardless of who started things.

Even though it may seem like bashing of small dogs, one has to admit that there is a double-standard for dog behaviour. If your big dog even so much as looks at someone you get questions of whether it bites. However, people seem to think it's almost amusing when some small dog is going rabid at the end of its leash. I'm acutely aware of how much damage my three could cause if they attacked a person or dog. Our two bitches have fought in the past and it is terrifying, even though it was more bark than bite. However, this should not mean that bad behaviour from smaller dogs should be tolerated because they are less likely to cause serious injury.

[Mumsie]

I have two JRT's, when we go for a walk we know which other dogs are friendly and which to avoid, if we have do see a dog we haven't met before I will check the owners body language and their dogs body language before deciding whether to stop and talk. I pull my dogs leads tighter in to my sides and keep my dogs walking while talking calmly to the them to distract them from barking and leaping at the other dog/s. My 9 year old ignores other dogs unless he knows them and the two year is a rescue we have had for only a few months and therefore I am not yet sure of her behaviour although she does appear reactive. There are two blue cattle dogs that we cross the street away from and two huskies that we will change direction to avoid passing. I love all breeds of dogs and if walking by myself I will stop and ask to pat any dog if the dog is looking at me with "pat me eyes" and a dopey grin.

[twodoggies2001]

I watched this program last night, and based on the owners talking about their dog yapping at other dogs, I suspected that they weren't just attacked randomly while out on a walk. Unfortunately, when they were sitting in the waiting room and the dog was barking at everything in what some dogs would consider quite a confrontational manner, it didn't seem like they had learned much at all.

Some dogs just have a very low tolerance for that sort of rude 'in your face' behaviour. Two of our German Shepherds will not put up with rude dogs. They don't physically attack them, but they will snap and growl if boundaries continue to be pushed. It's why I don't take them to dog parks or areas likely to be frequented by people with dogs off leash. Too many dogs out there have bad manners, ignorant owners, and I know with the breed I own, my dogs are going to come off the bad guys regardless of who started things.

Even though it may seem like bashing of small dogs, one has to admit that there is a double-standard for dog behaviour. If your big dog even so much as looks at someone you get questions of whether it bites. However, people seem to think it's almost amusing when some small dog is going rabid at the end of its leash. I'm acutely aware of how much damage my three could cause if they attacked a person or dog. Our two bitches have fought in the past and it is terrifying, even though it was more bark than bite. However, this should not mean that bad behaviour from smaller dogs should be tolerated because they are less likely to cause serious injury.

As for small dogs, it ALL depends on the owner of that small dog. I have two miniature Schnauzers and just because they are small, they are NOT allowed to behave in a rude manner at the dog park. The will happily play with dogs much larger than themselves and I allow them to if I can see the larger dog, or even dogs more their size that don't pose a threat. I have never mollycoddled my two, or their predecessors. They are dogs, and allowed to behave accordingly.

[YippeeGirl]

There are definitely responsible small dog owners out there, just as there are irresponsible large dog owners out there (saw a husky roaming the streets the other day with no owner in sight while I was out walking one of mine ).

It just seems that there is a difference in attitude in regards to recognising and dealing with things like aggression in smaller dogs, than there is bigger dogs.

I shake my head when I see videos on Youtube of small dogs being deliberately fired up and provoked by their owners because getting a dog to snarl and react aggressively somehow becomes funny when the dog is only the size of a cat.

I feel for the dogs in these situations as owning a fear aggressive dog who can be quite vocal, I know how difficult it can be to get those sorts of issues under control. However, just because the dog is small and more easily controlled, doesn't mean that these issues should be swept under the rug, and this is something I see a lot with the 'average dog owner' (the kind of dog owner I am talking about doesn't post on DOL). They are dogs, and deserve to be treated like dogs.