cowanbree Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 A piece of paper with a fancy name?! Really?! Is that what you think pedigree papers are? Something that gives a dog a fancy name? No wonder the canine breeding world is where it is. In this case it is. What else is different? His parents have still had all the relevant health tests, he is still eye and vet checked and he still comes with a lifetime of breeder support. A lot of NZ breeders only register the ones that are going to be shown or bred so I guess it is more the norm here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryGirl Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 I think I might stick with rescue dogs. :) I guess there are good and bad in every profession but when it comes to a regulated thing like pedigree breeding, I expected the majority of breeders to do it properly. What I'm finding so far is that some Registered breeders behave like backyard breeders and don't uphold the values of pedigree breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryGirl Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 If they can't even register a litter, what other things are they not doing? The ad sounds so responsible. The pups are offered chipped, vaccinated, wormed, come with puppy packs and are [price firm] without papers. So I think what they're not doing is following the rule to register the litter but I don't understand WHY. What are they hiding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) There are also rescues that act unethically so please ensure you check out all rescues carefully. I'm sure some rescue people on here can advise you what to look for in a good rescue organisation. Edited August 9, 2014 by RallyValley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I think I might stick with rescue dogs. :) I guess there are good and bad in every profession but when it comes to a regulated thing like pedigree breeding, I expected the majority of breeders to do it properly. What I'm finding so far is that some Registered breeders behave like backyard breeders and don't uphold the values of pedigree breeding. Which is why , by discussing on here what you are looking for /what you are wary of/ what you really want to avoid - you can , hopefully , be steered somewhere suitable remember , some breeders also have older pups and adults seeking homes for various reasons :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryGirl Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 There are also rescues that act unethically so please ensure you check out all rescues carefully. I'm sure some rescue people on here can advise you what to look for in a good rescue organisation. All my dogs have been rescued or adopted from a pound or shelter. I know many people claim to have "rescue" pets available but they neglect to ensure the dog has its vet work. This gives bona fide rescue groups and individuals a very bad reputation. Even reputable groups have/had some members doing the wrong thing to the detriment of the whole group's reputation. I have a good idea of what to look out for...and I would hope they would vet me as thoroughly as I'd vet them. :) If not, they don't have the dog's best interests at heart...so I'd avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shapeshifter Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I'm pretty sure there are plenty of registered breeders out that that don't believe that dogs should be restricted when it comes to breeding. This means that there will be litters that are not registered but they are not unethical or irresponsible breeders. They will not tell you their names or prefixes as they don't want to be punished for something they find ridiculous and may hamper their breeding programs (there are dogs out there that only produce 1 pup each time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Yes but a pup born from a litter that goes above the limits set by the governing body and therefore can't be registered is no use in future breeding programs anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) I'm pretty sure there are plenty of registered breeders out that that don't believe that dogs should be restricted when it comes to breeding. This means that there will be litters that are not registered but they are not unethical or irresponsible breeders. They will not tell you their names or prefixes as they don't want to be punished for something they find ridiculous and may hamper their breeding programs (there are dogs out there that only produce 1 pup each time). I know for a fact that you are quite right in what you say some registered breeders are doing. And I'm not even stating my opinion on breeders doing this. However, I am pretty sure that we could not accurately describe someone that knowingly breeches a Code of Ethics as ethical. Just saying As far as whether or not the breeder the OP was in discussions with was doing this, I have no idea, but my gut feeling says probably not. I have a feeling this so called breeder was not registered with anything but the local council, no prefix. A quick look at the actual ad, maybe even a website and a chat with the breeder would pretty quickly sort the chaff... if one had experience in what to ask for and what the correct answers should be. This is why it can be so difficult for first timers. I certainly sympathise. I hope the OP does not totally disregard the possibility of purchasing a pedigreed puppy from a reputable registered ethical breeder purely based on this negative experience. There are loads of wonderful pedigree dog breeders out there. The collective DOL brains trust has on many occasions assisted/guided first time pedigree puppy buyers whom have gone onto owning their dream puppy. This could be another such experience :) Edited August 9, 2014 by Starkehre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Yes but a pup born from a litter that goes above the limits set by the governing body and therefore can't be registered is no use in future breeding programs anyway. Spot on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amax-1 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 A friend of ours got backed into a corner with a bitch on limited reg that the breeder agreed to upgrade to mains when she passed hip and elbow scores. They had her x-rayed and she scored well, breeder was happy and was supposed to be organising the mains upgrade and said to go ahead with their planned mating. The bitch conceived had 7 pups then the bitches breeder changed his mind and wouldn't upgrade to mains. Problem was, nothing was in writing and consequently our friends ended up with an excellent litter of pups that couldn't be registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 A piece of paper with a fancy name?! Really?! Is that what you think pedigree papers are? Something that gives a dog a fancy name? No wonder the canine breeding world is where it is. In this case it is. What else is different? His parents have still had all the relevant health tests, he is still eye and vet checked and he still comes with a lifetime of breeder support. A lot of NZ breeders only register the ones that are going to be shown or bred so I guess it is more the norm here. So how does anyone keep track of the positives and negatives in the lines? Pedigree papers arent just a piece of paper they are intrinsic to being able to track issues for generations and making the person who buys them take pride in what they have over and above anyone else who is breeding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) A piece of paper with a fancy name?! Really?! Is that what you think pedigree papers are? Something that gives a dog a fancy name? No wonder the canine breeding world is where it is. In this case it is. What else is different? His parents have still had all the relevant health tests, he is still eye and vet checked and he still comes with a lifetime of breeder support. A lot of NZ breeders only register the ones that are going to be shown or bred so I guess it is more the norm here. gremiins sorry Edited August 9, 2014 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I'm pretty sure there are plenty of registered breeders out that that don't believe that dogs should be restricted when it comes to breeding. This means that there will be litters that are not registered but they are not unethical or irresponsible breeders. They will not tell you their names or prefixes as they don't want to be punished for something they find ridiculous and may hamper their breeding programs (there are dogs out there that only produce 1 pup each time). Well they cant have it both ways .If you agree to abide by a code you abide by the code - not just some bits in it - or you leave. I believe one of the biggest mistakes the CCs made was by going with AR and restricting when a bitch should be bred and think its better for my girls to have back to back litters if they are healthy etc but whilst ever Im a CC member I do what I said I would do and abide by the code - pretty simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Do you see them listed here? My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 A piece of paper with a fancy name?! Really?! Is that what you think pedigree papers are? Something that gives a dog a fancy name? No wonder the canine breeding world is where it is. In this case it is. What else is different? His parents have still had all the relevant health tests, he is still eye and vet checked and he still comes with a lifetime of breeder support. A lot of NZ breeders only register the ones that are going to be shown or bred so I guess it is more the norm here. So how does anyone keep track of the positives and negatives in the lines? Pedigree papers arent just a piece of paper they are intrinsic to being able to track issues for generations and making the person who buys them take pride in what they have over and above anyone else who is breeding them. I can't speak for everyone but if I sell one without papers it is being sold as a pet and will be desexed so there will be no future generations for that particular puppy. As to if that puppy has issues, I keep in contact with all of my puppies and am as interested if this puppy has issue as I am in one registered on the limit register. Registering them doesn't make you a better breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Pet puppies were sold without papers prior to the introduction of the limit registry. Maybe the breeder is an older breeder and doesn't agree with the limit registry. They are the only ones that know why they are doing it. But apart from the fact they are breaking a ANKC rule I don't think it automatically makes them a bad breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 A piece of paper with a fancy name?! Really?! Is that what you think pedigree papers are? Something that gives a dog a fancy name? No wonder the canine breeding world is where it is. In this case it is. What else is different? His parents have still had all the relevant health tests, he is still eye and vet checked and he still comes with a lifetime of breeder support. A lot of NZ breeders only register the ones that are going to be shown or bred so I guess it is more the norm here. So how does anyone keep track of the positives and negatives in the lines? Pedigree papers arent just a piece of paper they are intrinsic to being able to track issues for generations and making the person who buys them take pride in what they have over and above anyone else who is breeding them. I can't speak for everyone but if I sell one without papers it is being sold as a pet and will be desexed so there will be no future generations for that particular puppy. As to if that puppy has issues, I keep in contact with all of my puppies and am as interested if this puppy has issue as I am in one registered on the limit register. Registering them doesn't make you a better breeder. So how is this information that may turn up over the years passed onto other breeders if the pup isn't registered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Pet puppies were sold without papers prior to the introduction of the limit registry. Maybe the breeder is an older breeder and doesn't agree with the limit registry. They are the only ones that know why they are doing it. But apart from the fact they are breaking a ANKC rule I don't think it automatically makes them a bad breeder. I think they would have to be pretty old - in the eastern states its been at least 20 years. They sign a COE and agree to abide by that - register all puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Pet puppies were sold without papers prior to the introduction of the limit registry. Maybe the breeder is an older breeder and doesn't agree with the limit registry. They are the only ones that know why they are doing it. But apart from the fact they are breaking a ANKC rule I don't think it automatically makes them a bad breeder. I think they would have to be pretty old - in the eastern states its been at least 20 years. They sign a COE and agree to abide by that - register all puppies. Umm I am 47yo and when I was a breeder there was no limit registry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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