Meeting Scary Dogs

[Staffyluv]

This thread was actually meant to be more a general question about how people react when they see a dog they decide might be scary. However since it has focussed more on my particular situation I will give more information.

At dog training I was taught that upright forward leaning dogs that are also staring can mean trouble.

In the past one of my dogs was attacked. It was a very traumatic experience, and I am wary.

I have sometimes asked people to watch their dogs and some owners have responded very aggressively.

When I am in the vet's waiting room I assess every dog that comes in the door. I don't think it is appropriate to read a magazine when other dogs are present.

Your fear is very real and because of it you are more aware of the dogs around you - that is a good thing, to be aware of them. If that is what it takes to make you more comfortable then you should stay aware of other dogs.

I have a bull breed and he often has wrinkles between his ears :)

He leans forward when he is looking at something (a lot of dogs do - boxers, husky's come to mind as forward leaning dogs). Just because a dog looks like it is leaning forward and staring, doesn't mean it is trouble. Sometimes it might - but not always.

My boy stands up straight, his stance would be considered forward when he is looking at something that is interesting to him. If he is uninterested he wouldn't be looking at it.

I guess as his eyes are more forward than some dogs, it might appear that he is staring as well.

But I can tell you that I know my dog very well and I know that he would roll over if another dog looked sideways at him. I am comfortable having him on a loose leash at the vets and if I say 'stay here' he won't walk forward toward another dog but he will move his nose up into the air to get a sniff (that is what dogs do) and he will look at the other dog because he is interested in them.

So I don't think it is inappropriate to have a look at a magazine in a waiting room with my dog because I know he won't move forward unless he is allowed to do so. Perhaps the other woman was the same as me and knows her dog well enough to know it wasn't an issue.

My dogs have been run down and attacked by others as well, so I know what that is like - it is horrible to see your dog being attacked.

I don't agree with people abusing you over asking them to watch their dogs.

Some people might be offended that you are telling them to watch their dogs, when their dogs really aren't doing anything - maybe it is harder for you to see they aren't because you are fearful of you and your dog being attacked again.

Someone once told me an old saying about dog behaviour:

Nose to nose leads to blows

Sniffing bums, always chums

There is a whole lot more to dog body language and behaviour than that obviously.

re bolded part

How can you say this when you don't know me. I have asked people to watch their dogs usually when their dog is loose in an on lead area and is starting to move towards my dog. I don't like being rushed by loose dogs. I like people to have their dogs on lead when out of their own yards and if it is an on leash area.

I did say in an earlier post that some owners of the breeds that worry me are lovely people and responsible dog owners and you obviously fall into that category. :)

Eta Sorry when I reread your post I think I have misread it. Please ignore the above. I have had enough for tonight and I am turning off my computer now.

I think you have totally misread my post..

I will bow out now as there really isn't anything else to say about it :)

[BarbedWire]

This thread was actually meant to be more a general question about how people react when they see a dog they decide might be scary. However since it has focussed more on my particular situation I will give more information.

At dog training I was taught that upright forward leaning dogs that are also staring can mean trouble.

In the past one of my dogs was attacked. It was a very traumatic experience, and I am wary.

I have sometimes asked people to watch their dogs and some owners have responded very aggressively.

When I am in the vet's waiting room I assess every dog that comes in the door. I don't think it is appropriate to read a magazine when other dogs are present.

Your fear is very real and because of it you are more aware of the dogs around you - that is a good thing, to be aware of them. If that is what it takes to make you more comfortable then you should stay aware of other dogs.

I have a bull breed and he often has wrinkles between his ears :)

He leans forward when he is looking at something (a lot of dogs do - boxers, husky's come to mind as forward leaning dogs). Just because a dog looks like it is leaning forward and staring, doesn't mean it is trouble. Sometimes it might - but not always.

My boy stands up straight, his stance would be considered forward when he is looking at something that is interesting to him. If he is uninterested he wouldn't be looking at it.

I guess as his eyes are more forward than some dogs, it might appear that he is staring as well.

But I can tell you that I know my dog very well and I know that he would roll over if another dog looked sideways at him. I am comfortable having him on a loose leash at the vets and if I say 'stay here' he won't walk forward toward another dog but he will move his nose up into the air to get a sniff (that is what dogs do) and he will look at the other dog because he is interested in them.

So I don't think it is inappropriate to have a look at a magazine in a waiting room with my dog because I know he won't move forward unless he is allowed to do so. Perhaps the other woman was the same as me and knows her dog well enough to know it wasn't an issue.

My dogs have been run down and attacked by others as well, so I know what that is like - it is horrible to see your dog being attacked.

I don't agree with people abusing you over asking them to watch their dogs.

Some people might be offended that you are telling them to watch their dogs, when their dogs really aren't doing anything - maybe it is harder for you to see they aren't because you are fearful of you and your dog being attacked again.

Someone once told me an old saying about dog behaviour:

Nose to nose leads to blows

Sniffing bums, always chums

There is a whole lot more to dog body language and behaviour than that obviously.

re bolded part

How can you say this when you don't know me. I have asked people to watch their dogs usually when their dog is loose in an on lead area and is starting to move towards my dog. I don't like being rushed by loose dogs. I like people to have their dogs on lead when out of their own yards and if it is an on leash area.

I did say in an earlier post that some owners of the breeds that worry me are lovely people and responsible dog owners and you obviously fall into that category. :)

Eta Sorry when I reread your post I think I have misread it. Please ignore the above. I have had enough for tonight and I am turning off my computer now.

I think you have totally misread my post..

I will bow out now as there really isn't anything else to say about it :)

I did edit my post and I am sorry for misreading your post.

[Amax-1]

A lot of people are scared of GSD's and having owned and worked with the breed for many years, I try to project good control and restraint over my dogs for people who are scared or feeling uneasy to be able to relax a bit. If walking call the dog back into heel position when passing people......sitting in the vets, have the dog sitting with hold of the leash at the collar if someone comes in and looks apprehensive. I think being a breed enthusiast you tend to demonstrate that a good GSD is a well behaved dog that shouldn't illicit fear in a public place. Breeds with aggression history are scary to many people and I think the owners of such breeds have a public obligation to project control and calmness in the breed to reduce fear.

I have had a few people say they are scared of GSD's and with a good stable dog, let them pat my dogs and you can see the fear displace which is quite good in those circumstances.

I remember my wife having a great game with this dog one day, she was letting the dog lick her face and giving him a good rub and cuddle and she asked the owner what breed he was.....the owner said he's a Pit Bull He was a friendly dog who loved people so from a fear perspective of Pit Bull's my wife had this interaction with a good Pit Bull changed her breed outlook. :)

[megan_]

Did the dog lunge at you and your

If the owner is relaxed and the dog not lunging or growling, then I see them as safe to be in the same room with.

I

Lunging and growling aren't the only sign of an impending attack -staring is one too, especially if the dogs body is stiff. Some breeds don't growl or lung before an attack. For example, if a dog is in prey drive it will stare and stiffen up (and often dip it's head). It is dangerous to assume this posture is are.

[tdierikx]

With the particular media focus on anything bull breed looking being a "pitbull", anyone owning a dog that even vaguely fits the description should be extremely aware that others may look at their dogs with suspicion and fear.

sarsaparilla admits that media stories have managed to heighten her fear of such dogs - whether it's irrational or real is of no consequence, as she is frightened of dogs that look like her idea of a "pitbull".

I actually own a dog that is part pitbull, but you'd not guess it by looking at her... she's friendly and loves going to the vet because it means she'll be getting handled all over by the vet and then will be getting liver treats. I've never had anyone express concern about her in a vet clinic waiting room... but I still don't allow her to approach or be approached by other dogs in that environment... who knows what the other dog is there for, or how IT actually handles going to the vet?

My staffy/dane horse puppy is a completely different story. She is a big girl who is quite fearful of strange environments and people - although she absolutely loves other dogs of all sizes, and is socailly appropriate in her dealings with them. It doesn't help that she has strange coloured eyes and puts on a stupid fear display when she sees people she doesn't know. I know she will not bite, but a stanger doesn't... so we are always careful with her interactions with same - especially in places like a vet clinic which is usually a confined space and can get rather busy at times.

Dog help us all when my camp dog needs to go to the vet... she has a scar in her brain that means she moves differently to other dogs, and they can have difficulty reading her body language. She's a complete trollope when it comes to people and other dogs, which can be confronting to some. She's 15kgs, but I have a large crate to fit her and will usually carry her in that into the vet clinic - everyone is safe that way... *grin*

Funnily enough, no-one seems to be frightened of my Labrador... *sigh*... but she's the most likely to arc up if another dog is behaving inappropriately...

T.

[BarbedWire]

Did the dog lunge at you and your

If the owner is relaxed and the dog not lunging or growling, then I see them as safe to be in the same room with.

I

Lunging and growling aren't the only sign of an impending attack -staring is one too, especially if the dogs body is stiff. Some breeds don't growl or lung before an attack. For example, if a dog is in prey drive it will stare and stiffen up (and often dip it's head). It is dangerous to assume this posture is are.

Thankyou Megan, It was the eyes that especially disturbed me and the stiff body. Its eyes were locked on my dog.

[BarbedWire]

Amax and T your replies are so spot on. It is this that I wanted to discuss in this thread, not what I should and should not have done at the vets. The vet situation was meant to be an example to illustrate my point.

I do admit that my initial reactions to certain breeds have been influenced by media stories, as I am sure have many others in our community and on this forum. I also feel obliged to put my dog's safety ahead of being politically correct and not offending other dog owners.

Interestingly I have never really had close contact with a pit bull but I do think they are a very handsome looking animal. :) Perhaps we need someone to make a movie about children on an adventure with their family pet, an APBT, along the lines of the Lassie series or Beethoven.

[mixeduppup]

Making a movie about pitbulls would be a terrible idea, imagine how many more would be bred due to popularity and the unsuitable homes they'd go to....

[ActuallyAngela]

I'm very new to having a dog of my own, and this forum, I am not very good at reading other people's dog language but I wouldn't think anything of someone sitting in a vet waiting room with their dog loosely on a leash. I think I would be more nervous if someone saw me and grabbed their dog's collar, watched it intently, left the room, generally looked stressed. When I see nervous owners that's when I get anxiousl

I now have a big black dog and people already no doubt have all sorts of ideas about him in their minds. If he sees children I will hold his harness pretty tight because I know he would try to lick them and play with them, but I do sit in vet waiting rooms and leave him be. I don't think it's people being rude, just knowing their own dog's capabilities and trying not to stress about other people's reactions. I'm trying to teach my pup to not stress around others, so to do that, I have to lead by example.

[ActuallyAngela]

As for dogs that make people nervous in general I guess I would have to apply the same principles I do scary people (living in my area you want to be on alert lol). Avoid eye contact and leave the area as calmly as possible.

[Staffyluv]

Did the dog lunge at you and your

If the owner is relaxed and the dog not lunging or growling, then I see them as safe to be in the same room with.

I

Lunging and growling aren't the only sign of an impending attack -staring is one too, especially if the dogs body is stiff. Some breeds don't growl or lung before an attack. For example, if a dog is in prey drive it will stare and stiffen up (and often dip it's head). It is dangerous to assume this posture is are.

Zig stands and stares when he sees another dog in the waiting room - because he wants to get their attention or he wants to go to them.. But he doesn't because he isn't released to do so, until it is deemed safe and OK for him..

He also has a back and hip issues - so he stands stiffly.. He is submissive and super friendly..

I know that growling and lunging are not the only signs of an impending attack..

To me and this was the point of my WHOLE post - the other owner didn't panic and tightly leash her dog when the OP entered the room with her dog. That says to ME, if it was ME in her place, that the woman was comfortable with her dog and she probably didn't think it would move - so NO need to short leash, panic and run outside before an impending attack!

Thank you OP, I did go back and see your apology, none really required - I just figured I was bleating the same point over and over and it wasn't being read or understood the way I meant it, so I simply gave up..

One more go at my whole point..

Some people are comfortable with their dogs, they know them well enough to know they are not going to launch and attack another dog in the room. That is what I read into the OPs original post..

The OP was the uncomfortable one, due to previous experience (not with the other dog in the waiting room though).. I acknowledge the OPs fear of other dogs but pointed out that not everyone is aware of her fear and if she is so afraid it might pay to ask for the last appointment of the day to avoid situations like the one in the OP.

People can't read minds - how as the other owner in the room to know that the OP was fearful - like she said, she probably didn't even realise she was in the room as she ducked behind a display..

We all run into situations that make us uncomfortable in life but it is how we deal with them that makes all the difference..

To ME based on what the OP said in her opening post - the other owner and dog did nothing wrong..

To ME, the OP overreacted based on what she said in her opening post..

But that is just me - she asked opinions and I gave mine.

[DobieMum]

For me, I'm usually at the other end of the stick with a black male entire Dobie, who sillily carries his tail right up over his body. At a quick glance he looks really dominant, especially when he stands up and I have had people move away from him because if it, and you will actually see him shrink a bit because of it, if he had his choice every single person in the world is made to love and hug him. For vets, I find it easiest to park outside (I have a ute with a canopy on) and let the nurses know I'm there and then I usually stand outside with them with the top open. When the vets ready for me, usually he or one of the nurses will come to the door and call me. It just makes life easier for everyone. :)

[melzawelza]

Interestingly I have never really had close contact with a pit bull but I do think they are a very handsome looking animal. :) Perhaps we need someone to make a movie about children on an adventure with their family pet, an APBT, along the lines of the Lassie series or Beethoven.

Ever watched the original 'Little Rascals'? Petey was a Pit Bull :)

Sarsaparilla, if you are in Sydney you are very welcome to meet my girl. She is from the pound so there is no way for me to know what breed or breeds she is but she looks enough like the culturally accepted idea of what a 'pit bull' is that she was very nearly euthanised without rehoming simply for her appearance.

She's the friendliest dog ever and has helped lots of people with general dog fears or fears of blocky headed dogs.

Interestingly she's super dog friendly but I guarantee she would have leaned forward and stared at your dog in the vet. She loves other dogs and has such a high value for them that she finds it very hard not to stare at them intently and sometimes whine when she sees them but can't say hello. It's called barrier frustration and sometimes dogs that absolutely love other dogs will show these behaviours when they are frustrated by being unable to say hello.

[OSoSwift]

My Dobe was Black and Tan had very dark eyes and would stare at people without blinking for a very long time and bore holes in their eyes. She was not aggressive and wasn't going to launch - if she started rumbling from deep down her toes there was an issue.

Why did she do it??? Becasue she had been encouraged to seek and hold hard eye contact and had been very highly rewarded for doing so.

It did used to freak people out a bit as not only was she staring she was often stock still.

It could have been her and yes she would have stared you out because she was trying to turn you into a vending machine.