Meeting Scary Dogs

[Sabbath]

I think you were right to be wary. The other owner should have made sure you felt at ease. I have a dog that may scare other dog owners and I ALWAYS make sure there is no chance of drama.

[BarbedWire]

Deleted. Double post

Edited August 9, 2014 by sarsaparilla

[BarbedWire]

Thankyou to everyone for your replies.

MUP some sage advice there.

SL I think if the other dog had lunged or growled I would have started screaming. I am very afraid. I love my dog and I want to protect him. It was a very confined space and I had momentary visions of the other dog latching on to my dog and no-one being able to pull it off as has happened in some of the incidents described both here on DOL and in the media. How am I to know that the other owner was either capable or responsible?

Sabbath I love your reply. If only all dog owners were so thoughtful.

[VizslaMomma]

I would be more careful in the confines of a Vet's reception area at any time.

It could be an issue to assume another dog is in a good place in itself at the Vet.

When we go, we sit against one wall. It happens to be by a door as well.

Before I go into the Vet, I check at the front desk the situation is OK.

[Staffyluv]

Thankyou to everyone for your replies.

MUP some sage advice there.

SL I think if the other dog had lunged or growled I would have started screaming. I am very afraid. I love my dog and I want to protect him. It was a very confined space and I had momentary visions of the other dog latching on to my dog and no-one being able to pull it off as has happened in some of the incidents described both here on DOL and in the media. How am I to know that the other owner was either capable or responsible?

Sabbath I love your reply. If only all dog owners were so thoughtful.

Look I feel sorry for you fearing dogs to the degree that you have described.

However if you feel that strongly about it, then removing your dog from the vets to the car as soon as your appointment is over, is probably the best thing you can do for you and your dog.

Or maybe ask when you make appointments for you and your dog to have times right at the end of the appointment schedule, so you don't run into any other owners and dogs.

We should all do what we have to do to protect our dogs - not so long ago my 25kg boofhead was rushed by 2 pugs in the waiting room..

It was funny to the owners of the pugs that my big guy ran under the chairs to get away from them..

I guess it wouldn't have been so funny if it was the other way around!

Just my opinion but the simple fact that the other owner had her dog at a vet, tells me they must be 'reasonably' responsible - most owners that don't care, would possibly not bother with vetting their animals.

You can't know if she was or wasn't a responsible owner - the only way to do that is to ask if the dog is friendly, so you feel more comfortable around it.

In reverse of your fearful situation - how can she (the other owner) possibly know how fearful you are. She is simply there, sitting in a waiting room with her dog, checking out a magazine.

[Daisys Mum]

there are certain breeds I am automatically on the alert about from past experience, but I wont say what they are here. It doesn't mean I'm instantly frightened of them, just watchful, but mostly I dont base it on breed but rather the body language of the individual dog.

The breed I'm most wary of is probably the breed I would get for myself if I felt I ever needed a protective dog.

I am the same... My Kelpie has been attacked 3 times by the same breed of dog, I never used to be watchful of this type of breed but I am now.

[Dogsfevr]

All dogs deserve respect ,do i think the dog you describe is scary no ,i would say your reaction is more an issue especially to your own dog .

My dogs stand in the stance you describe & look ,eye colour can make something look worse than it is .

My dogs are friendly & social

Tail doing nothing means ditto & the number of people that assume a waggy tail is a happy tail is at risk of something happening .

When at the vets i always check before i go in & take the dogs straight to the car before i pay .

I have big dogs & am use to the presumed "guilty look" even when we had our show Greyhounds we would get looks of we aren't welcome at the vets or our dog is going maul everything because they would look with there ears alert & happy,Mind you whilst the owners looked in shear horror there own dogs would be displaying poor behaviour but that didn't count.

I also don't believe as a big dog owner its my job to make you feel safe ,it sounds like the dog was under control & did nothing but "look" & you ran away from it .

As a responsible dog owner its all our duty to have our dogs under control .

If someone doesn't then yes i will ask or simply wait outside with my dogs or ask a staff member to deal with it .

That is what i like about the 2 vet clinics we use all animals must abide by the responsible waiting room rules & all must be leashed & controlled our in there pet carriers

[HazyWal]

I think you were right to be wary. The other owner should have made sure you felt at ease. I have a dog that may scare other dog owners and I ALWAYS make sure there is no chance of drama.

Yep I do the same. Many people are frightened of greyhounds and the muzzles don't do them any favours either. It doesn't help that Stan absolutely loves the vet and bounds in like a lunatic, a muzzled lunatic is enough to put the wind up anyone.

If annoys me when people are not paying attention to their dogs and not thinking of everyone in the waiting room.

[Rosetta]

Vet surgeries can be dangerous places and you should be aware and protective of your dog at all times. Strange dogs - and cats - in confined areas especially if the animal is unwell can be a recipe for disaster. Many people are idiots regardless of whether they care enough to take their dog to the vet. I always carry my dog in the door and scan the room before putting him down. I have seen too many aggressive dogs barely restrained by their owners to take any risk and you can't rely on vet staff to advise owners about keeping their dogs under control.

You did the right thing by trusting your instinct - best to over-react a little than have a disaster happen to your dog. Just because the owner appeared unconcerned does not mean that the dog was harmless.

[Sabbath]

I think you were right to be wary. The other owner should have made sure you felt at ease. I have a dog that may scare other dog owners and I ALWAYS make sure there is no chance of drama.

Yep I do the same. Many people are frightened of greyhounds and the muzzles don't do them any favours either. It doesn't help that Stan absolutely loves the vet and bounds in like a lunatic, a muzzled lunatic is enough to put the wind up anyone.

If annoys me when people are not paying attention to their dogs and not thinking of everyone in the waiting room.

Hang on, all the other owner did was sit in the waiting room with her dog under control. How is there an obligation for her to check on every person she encounters and ensure she makes them feel comfortable around her dog? If her dog got away from her or was behaving inappropriately because she wasn't paying attention that would piss me off too but her dog didn't do anything wrong at all in this scenario.

Maybe there's no obligation but as an owner of a particular breed I feel I need to present the best and most cautious behaviour.

[HazyWal]

I think you were right to be wary. The other owner should have made sure you felt at ease. I have a dog that may scare other dog owners and I ALWAYS make sure there is no chance of drama.

Yep I do the same. Many people are frightened of greyhounds and the muzzles don't do them any favours either. It doesn't help that Stan absolutely loves the vet and bounds in like a lunatic, a muzzled lunatic is enough to put the wind up anyone.

If annoys me when people are not paying attention to their dogs and not thinking of everyone in the waiting room.

Hang on, all the other owner did was sit in the waiting room with her dog under control. How is there an obligation for her to check on every person she encounters and ensure she makes them feel comfortable around her dog? If her dog got away from her or was behaving inappropriately because she wasn't paying attention that would piss me off too but her dog didn't do anything wrong at all in this scenario.

Woah there SL. Sorry I can't multi quote but from the OP...

"the dogs owner, a woman with grey hair was NOT watching but looking sideways at a magazine"

Considering as stated my dogs are muzzled by law and have been attacked before I watch every single thing that happens in the waiting room. If you are not watching but flicking through a mag or chatting on Facebook how is that under control?

[HazyWal]

Right ok then it's not up for discussion apparently

As Sabbath and I both stated we are aware people may be frightened by our breed so we just take that extra step to ensure everything goes swimmingly at the vet where some people have very ill animals and others may just be worried by them.

[sandgrubber]

The best solution is one that provides protection and avoids conflict without risking offense to someone who is doing nothing wrong.

Usually it's possible to avoid dogs you don't trust at the vets by waiting outside. Great solution when you can do it. But sometimes it's too hot, and sometimes your dog is sick enough that it shouldn't be outside. Or you have some messy situation like a litter of puppies that needs exams and microchips.

If I hit that situation with a small dog, I guess I'd do like cat owners do and bring the dog's crate. (Cat owners hit this situation virtually every time they sit in a waiting room and the crate always seems to resolve the problem).

If that is not possible, maybe best to go back to the car (with A/C on if needed) and phone the vet to explain the situation. Often they can ease the situation by letting you wait in an empty consultation room . . . or giving you a phone call when it's ok to come in.

Edited August 9, 2014 by sandgrubber

[Staffyluv]

That is why I asked if the dog growled or lunged - all it did was stand up and look at the OP and her dog.

Most dogs will stand when another dog comes along, if they are in a down position.

The actual dog, did nothing to warrant a reaction from anyone, all it did was stand up. It was leashed and standing by its owner.

Every time I walk into the vets, the other dogs stand. If we are in there and other dogs come in, Zig will stand..

He doesn't move, but will reach forward for a sniff and usually has a low wag of his tail until the other dog or owner indicates they can say hello, then the tail goes into helicopter mode.

People overreact out of fear and other emotions.

The vet staff did the right thing by suggesting she put her dog in the car and come back and pay - no harm was done to anyone.

I have a fear of heights and can't go up a ladder past the second rung if the ladder is outside - it is irrational, I know it but it doesn't make it any less real in my mind.

Fear makes people overreact - some may think my reaction to having to go up a ladder outside is a complete overreaction because they don't have that fear.

I don't have a fear of dogs, especially that 'type' of dog because I know the breeds and I have been around more safe dogs like that than dangerous dogs like that.

But that is me, I am comfortable and fairly confident in that situation..

[BarbedWire]

This thread was actually meant to be more a general question about how people react when they see a dog they decide might be scary. However since it has focussed more on my particular situation I will give more information.

At dog training I was taught that upright forward leaning dogs that are also staring can mean trouble.

In the past one of my dogs was attacked. It was a very traumatic experience, and I am wary.

I have sometimes asked people to watch their dogs and some owners have responded very aggressively.

When I am in the vet's waiting room I assess every dog that comes in the door. I don't think it is appropriate to read a magazine when other dogs are present.

[HazyWal]

But the actual dog DID do something to warrant a reaction Staffyluv, the OP was scared and uncomfortable. The dog may have been leashed but if you are looking away anything can happen. My two are not cat friendly in any way shape or form. If I walk into the clinic and there is a cat in a carrier my two are straight onto it so I sit away from them and make sure I keep them close and make a point of saying to said person that it's ok I'm over here and I continually say to my two to stop it. They will keep eyeballing the cat but I don't take my eyes off them, I don't flick through a mag.

Edited August 9, 2014 by HazyWal

[BarbedWire]

This thread was actually meant to be more a general question about how people react when they see a dog they decide might be scary. However since it has focussed more on my particular situation I will give more information.

At dog training I was taught that upright forward leaning dogs that are also staring can mean trouble.

In the past one of my dogs was attacked. It was a very traumatic experience, and I am wary.

I have sometimes asked people to watch their dogs and some owners have responded very aggressively.

When I am in the vet's waiting room I assess every dog that comes in the door. I don't think it is appropriate to read a magazine when other dogs are present.

Dogs who are staring and placing their weight on to their front legs can mean trouble but there is a lot more to it than just that and I would also be looking at whether it's a normal "hey, there's a dog" stare or a hard stare, whether the body is tense or relaxed, what position are the ears in, what are the facial muscles doing etc. Leaning forward on its own is just a willingness to engage.

I'm sorry your dog was attacked. That must have been very frightening and upsetting. My dog has had his own share of bad experiences and I too am wary but it's helpful if it can be balanced and not become an all consuming fear (easier said than done sometimes).

I too have encountered people who can be jerks about their dogs but for the most part people are usually pretty good. I think sometimes it can depend on how you approach them about their dog. I wouldn't say to someone that their dog looks scary or I think it might be aggressive etc as that's likely to put people on the defensive and make them react badly. I put the issue on to me and my dog and say that he doesn't respond well to dogs he doesn't know or was attacked recently (or whatever is most appropriate for the situation) and could they please not approach or ensure their dog stays by their side while we pass. Because I'm not saying there's anything wrong with their dog and have given a reason beyond "don't come near us", they're usually okay.

You might not think it's appropriate to read a magazine in the waiting room and it's not something I would do for reasons I've already said, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with someone else doing it if their dog is behaving and they're not concerned about other dogs approaching. They can't read your mind and know that this increases your fearfulness.

Snook re bolded part. When I first saw the dog it was just standing there and when it saw my dog it moved forward, came up on its toes, and stared. It was a hard stare and its body was tense. I had a few seconds to assess the situation. I do not know what the dog's normal body language (ear position, tail, facial muscles etc) is, so I could not assess them although certain breeds do have naturally stary eyes and upright body language.

I came out from behind a display stand and there it was about a metre away. I retreated back behind the display stand and spoke to the vet who was following me. The other owner would not even have known I was there. My dog could have been about to attack her dog and she wouldn't have known.

[Staffyluv]

This thread was actually meant to be more a general question about how people react when they see a dog they decide might be scary. However since it has focussed more on my particular situation I will give more information.

At dog training I was taught that upright forward leaning dogs that are also staring can mean trouble.

In the past one of my dogs was attacked. It was a very traumatic experience, and I am wary.

I have sometimes asked people to watch their dogs and some owners have responded very aggressively.

When I am in the vet's waiting room I assess every dog that comes in the door. I don't think it is appropriate to read a magazine when other dogs are present.

Your fear is very real and because of it you are more aware of the dogs around you - that is a good thing, to be aware of them. If that is what it takes to make you more comfortable then you should stay aware of other dogs.

I have a bull breed and he often has wrinkles between his ears :)

He leans forward when he is looking at something (a lot of dogs do - boxers, husky's come to mind as forward leaning dogs). Just because a dog looks like it is leaning forward and staring, doesn't mean it is trouble. Sometimes it might - but not always.

My boy stands up straight, his stance would be considered forward when he is looking at something that is interesting to him. If he is uninterested he wouldn't be looking at it.

I guess as his eyes are more forward than some dogs, it might appear that he is staring as well.

But I can tell you that I know my dog very well and I know that he would roll over if another dog looked sideways at him. I am comfortable having him on a loose leash at the vets and if I say 'stay here' he won't walk forward toward another dog but he will move his nose up into the air to get a sniff (that is what dogs do) and he will look at the other dog because he is interested in them.

So I don't think it is inappropriate to have a look at a magazine in a waiting room with my dog because I know he won't move forward unless he is allowed to do so. Perhaps the other woman was the same as me and knows her dog well enough to know it wasn't an issue.

My dogs have been run down and attacked by others as well, so I know what that is like - it is horrible to see your dog being attacked.

I don't agree with people abusing you over asking them to watch their dogs.

Some people might be offended that you are telling them to watch their dogs, when their dogs really aren't doing anything - maybe it is harder for you to see they aren't because you are fearful of you and your dog being attacked again.

Someone once told me an old saying about dog behaviour:

Nose to nose leads to blows

Sniffing bums, always chums

There is a whole lot more to dog body language and behaviour than that obviously.

[BarbedWire]

This thread was actually meant to be more a general question about how people react when they see a dog they decide might be scary. However since it has focussed more on my particular situation I will give more information.

At dog training I was taught that upright forward leaning dogs that are also staring can mean trouble.

In the past one of my dogs was attacked. It was a very traumatic experience, and I am wary.

I have sometimes asked people to watch their dogs and some owners have responded very aggressively.

When I am in the vet's waiting room I assess every dog that comes in the door. I don't think it is appropriate to read a magazine when other dogs are present.

Your fear is very real and because of it you are more aware of the dogs around you - that is a good thing, to be aware of them. If that is what it takes to make you more comfortable then you should stay aware of other dogs.

I have a bull breed and he often has wrinkles between his ears :)

He leans forward when he is looking at something (a lot of dogs do - boxers, husky's come to mind as forward leaning dogs). Just because a dog looks like it is leaning forward and staring, doesn't mean it is trouble. Sometimes it might - but not always.

My boy stands up straight, his stance would be considered forward when he is looking at something that is interesting to him. If he is uninterested he wouldn't be looking at it.

I guess as his eyes are more forward than some dogs, it might appear that he is staring as well.

But I can tell you that I know my dog very well and I know that he would roll over if another dog looked sideways at him. I am comfortable having him on a loose leash at the vets and if I say 'stay here' he won't walk forward toward another dog but he will move his nose up into the air to get a sniff (that is what dogs do) and he will look at the other dog because he is interested in them.

So I don't think it is inappropriate to have a look at a magazine in a waiting room with my dog because I know he won't move forward unless he is allowed to do so. Perhaps the other woman was the same as me and knows her dog well enough to know it wasn't an issue.

My dogs have been run down and attacked by others as well, so I know what that is like - it is horrible to see your dog being attacked.

I don't agree with people abusing you over asking them to watch their dogs.

Some people might be offended that you are telling them to watch their dogs, when their dogs really aren't doing anything - maybe it is harder for you to see they aren't because you are fearful of you and your dog being attacked again.

Someone once told me an old saying about dog behaviour:

Nose to nose leads to blows

Sniffing bums, always chums

There is a whole lot more to dog body language and behaviour than that obviously.

re bolded part

How can you say this when you don't know me. I have asked people to watch their dogs usually when their dog is loose in an on lead area and is starting to move towards my dog. I don't like being rushed by loose dogs. I like people to have their dogs on lead when out of their own yards and if it is an on leash area.

I did say in an earlier post that some owners of the breeds that worry me are lovely people and responsible dog owners and you obviously fall into that category. :)

Eta Sorry when I reread your post I think I have misread it. Please ignore the above. I have had enough for tonight and I am turning off my computer now.

Edited August 9, 2014 by sarsaparilla

[Staffyluv]

But the actual dog DID do something to warrant a reaction Staffyluv, the OP was scared and uncomfortable. The dog may have been leashed but if you are looking away anything can happen. My two are not cat friendly in any way shape or form. If I walk into the clinic and there is a cat in a carrier my two are straight onto it so I sit away from them and make sure I keep them close and make a point of saying to said person that it's ok I'm over here and I continually say to my two to stop it. They will keep eyeballing the cat but I don't take my eyes off them, I don't flick through a mag.

How is the other owner supposed to know that - I don't watch every single person to see if they are afraid of Zig.

The OP said it stood up and look at her and her dog - that is pretty normal behaviour to me but I am no dog behaviourist, so maybe it isn't..

But every time I have ever walked into our vets the dogs laying down get up. Zig gets up if someone comes into the vets when we are there but I don't look at the person and can immediately tell they are terrified of him?

You know Stan and Maddie don't like cats so you do the right thing and keep them on a short leash..

There is nothing wrong with that, that is just responsible ownership.

The other owner wasn't being irresponsible - her dog stood and looked (stared).. It didn't lunge or growl, it didn't take off after her and her dog..

I am not in any way trying to down play the OPs fear of her and her dog being attacked.. It is very real and I know what that is like, for a long time I had the same fear after Ollie was attacked the first time.

I have come to realise that not every dog I come across wants to eat mine. Doesn't make me any less aware of my surroundings but I don't expect every person I see to keep their dog on a short leash just because I am near them.

This is just me - the OP can feel the way she likes but she may have to accept that not everyone will know and do what she wants them to do by keeping their dogs on a short leash because she is afraid of them.

Personally, if she saw Zig and I and told me she was uncomfortable, I would be happy to wait outside for her or keep Zig on a short leash (not that he would need it) - but I am not everyone and there will be people who won't be happy to do what makes her comfortable..

Not doing what someone else wants them to do with their dog, doesn't make them irresponsible owners.

That is just life...