Erny Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Hi. Querying and doing a bit of research for a friend's friend's son. 10 Year Old dog just been diagnosed with Hamangiosarcoma. By the sounds of it, it is considerably advanced and from what I've read, personally I don't hold much hope nor believe this dog has much time left. Tumour evident on paw and possible activity at throat. Suddenly lethargic and has gone off his food and losing weight and coughing. Owners can't afford the $3-4000.00 for investigatory scans and don't really want to stress their dog out by all of that, preferring to do the best they can for their dog for his comfort. Yes - pts is not being ignored but they just wanted to check in case there is anything else they can do to make him feel better and have whatever time he'd like to have if he could feel that bit better. Anyone here with experience in this who could give some tips/advice? Amongst a couple of other ideas, I've already given Dr Anne Neville's details to them and recommended her advice be sought as one option, but any other thoughts and tips would be appreciated. The father of the son who owns this beautiful and loyal dog thanks you in advance for any ideas and advice you might have, as do I. ETA: I'm playing a bit of devils advocate and exploring through questions whether this dog is also affected by Canine Cough and not only the cancer. Have sent questions to owner as to whether this was considered by the Vet they've just recently seen. Waiting for response. Edited July 26, 2014 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Hi Erny, No experience with this condition but I would highly recommend Ann Nevill. She will not send them off for tests just for the sake of it in my experience is well aware of the financial burden on clients and looks to lessen those as much as possible. Why are you exploring the Canine Cough? Because of the possible activity in the throat being from a separate issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 Although I wasn't convinced myself, I like to leave no stone unturned where I can, and explored the "idea" of possible Canine Cough on a "just in case" basis. (Eg. What if the dog had Hamangiosarcoma AND Canine Cough, but the symptoms of CC were wrongly attributed to the Hamangiosarcoma.) But I've asked further questions since then and I doubt that Canine Cough has anything to do with it. Rather, having covered this very slight possibility, I believe the lethargy, throat and cough are a part of the Hamangiosarcoma and that the disease is in very late stages. It was almost a *hope* that perhaps the cancer wasn't as quite advanced as it seems. But the dog's blood results show anemia which indicates a rupture somewhere, and given the other signs, it doesn't sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Iggy Rescue took on an Italian Greyhound 2 years ago from a home in QLD. When he arrived, our vet diagnosed hemangiosarcoma and another form of cancer. He was very thin and needed a dental. He had 14 growths removed from all over his body, some were bleeding - he was in a sorry way. We were told he would only live for a few weeks, max 3 months they thought. We decided to take him to the All Natural Vet at Russell Lea, with all his test results as he was only 7 yrs old. they prescribed an anti-cancer diet as well as Chinese herbs His foster carer was vigilant and had any small new growths removed under local anaesthetic at her own vet. But the incredible thing was that he lived in great health for nearly 2 years, we lost him recently when he felt unwell and the diagnosis was that the cancer had spread through his internal organs. So I'd recommend looking at something alternative - this is just one of a few great results I've experienced for dogs that were very ill and not expected to live long. Edited July 26, 2014 by Her Majesty Dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareyJ Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Our gsp, leila had Histiocytic sacoma and at first it appeared like she had canine cough & the glands in her neck were enlarged -this is what prompted me to take her to the vet in the first place. They initially treated for CC. A week later i had to take her to the emergency vet due to an enlarged stomach-i feared bloat but it was fluid & an enlarged liver which then lead to the cancer diagnosis. Unfortunately the cough wasnt canine cough but a symptom on the cancer. My heart goes out to them & I wish for a positive outcome, I wouldnt wish going through what we did on anyone. It broke my heart to see her suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) If the dog has been accurately (ie. pathology results) diagnosed with Hemagiosarcoma, and he's anaemic and lethargic, it may be that the kindest thing for him is to give him his wings with dignity and love. You may be able to buy a short amount of time with expensive treatments and surgery - but at what cost to the dog's quality of life? This is one of the nastiest cancers, as it usually attacks the internal organs like the spleen, liver, lungs, and heart before you'll see any outward signs of the disease... by which time it's usually pretty far gone internally. T. Edited July 26, 2014 by tdierikx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 What colour are the dogs faeces? If they are dark it will likely be indicating internal bleeding. Having just known a dog who had this (most likely), he went 1 week from having symptoms not so bad as what you have described to being PTS. Once the symptoms were like what you described he only happily held on for a couple of days. I believe there is surgery that can be done, but it's very costly and will only buy a little bit of time (this is all from what my friend learnt not first hand experience). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the responses, everyone. I've passed them on in summary form to the owner's father, who will relate them to his son. In essence, I feel the steps I'd take would be to get a second opinion from Dr Anne Neville and depending on her diagnosis and prognosis, treat without invasive procedures (assuming the dog is not currently in excessive discomfort and/or that there is a reasonable chance of the discomfort being reduced to a 'quality life' level .... or consider helping the dog by letting him go. This is all without me seeing the dog so I'm not going to push one way or the other - it has to be their call, but expense aside, they are already against the invasive approach particularly that research indicates it doesn't necessarily buy all that much time. Edited July 28, 2014 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHRP Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I lost a dog to Haemangiosarcoma which first presented as a subcutaneous tumour on his ribs. Much more commonly haemangiosarcoma is visceral, usually on the spleen or heart. Has the dog had an ultrasound to check spleen etc.? An ultrasound is only a couple of hundred dollars and was the first step for my dog after the tumour in his ribs was diagnosed. After the ultrasound was all clear then more expensive scans - CT or/and MRI were recommended if radical surgery at the initial tumour site was going to be considered. The feeling being that if there was any sign on spread to spleen etc. on either results then it was not worth doing surgery. In the later stages my dog did present with a cough and an xray showed tumours in his lungs. A horrible and very often fast acting disease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 This is such a horrible thing as it really is a death sentence - you may be able to buy time but much depends on how late it is and either way its not long. Do you mind me asking - is it a registered purebred dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Thanks FHRP - will pass on info regarding ultra sound. It's affordable and at least a 'step' they could take. Steve - don't mind you asking but in truth, I don't know. Have sent a message with FHRP's info re ultra sound and have also asked regarding breed lineage. Edited July 28, 2014 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave73 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Our GSD was diagnosed with grade3 Haemangiosarcoma at 5 1/2. It was in her back leg deep in the muscle. She had it operated on and my local vet couldn't remove it all. Went to SASH and did a ct scan and she was cancer free besides the leg. Unfortunately the leg had to go to get margins but 10 months on she is still cancer free but she has a xray and ultrasound in 2 weeks to check her organs and if shes clear she may have just beaten it, but she did go through 5 chemo sessions and is on tablet chemo for the rest of her life. The xray and ultrasound is about $1200 at SASH give or take a few dollars so ne need to do a CT scan as that will suffice. We also go to All Natural Vet and shes on the herbs +Chinese herbs and a cancer diet. It is usually a death sentence and will likely take my girl eventually but she seems to be winning for know. Check out my topic in the general area Look for "Oncologist recommendations Sydney" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Good on you Dave73 and good luck with your girl - with fingers crossed for a long, happy life with good health. The owners of the dog I have referred to have had 3 x opinions all culminating to the same diagnosis. After a round-table meeting with their folks they have decided to keep their dog as comfortable as he can be in the time he still has some quality life and to let him 'go' when that's not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Shepherd mom Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Bella passed away from Subcutaneous Haemangiosarcoma. To her last breath she had a healthy appetite and no coughing. We believe the cancer spread to her brain and ruptured there as she was disorientated and getting distressed. We think she was brain-dead when the vet came to euthanise her as the only movement from her was her breathing. I would have guessed that if your friend's dog is lethargic and coughing, that the tumours may have spread to the lungs. As FHRP has said, the Ultrasound is the cheaper option, if tumours are found then there's really no point doing the more expensive scans. From your description of this dog, it sounds like the cancer is well progressed though I hope I'm wrong. I feel very sad for this family you're speaking of. Bella's oncologist assured me that this is not a painful cancer and that's all the comfort one can take from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave73 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 As WSM has said it is the silent painless killer. Usually only shows signs of pain once its too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarlett rose Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Hi. Querying and doing a bit of research for a friend's friend's son. 10 Year Old dog just been diagnosed with Hamangiosarcoma. By the sounds of it, it is considerably advanced and from what I've read, personally I don't hold much hope nor believe this dog has much time left. Tumour evident on paw and possible activity at throat. Suddenly lethargic and has gone off his food and losing weight and coughing. Owners can't afford the $3-4000.00 for investigatory scans and don't really want to stress their dog out by all of that, preferring to do the best they can for their dog for his comfort. Yes - pts is not being ignored but they just wanted to check in case there is anything else they can do to make him feel better and have whatever time he'd like to have if he could feel that bit better. Anyone here with experience in this who could give some tips/advice? Amongst a couple of other ideas, I've already given Dr Anne Neville's details to them and recommended her advice be sought as one option, but any other thoughts and tips would be appreciated. The father of the son who owns this beautiful and loyal dog thanks you in advance for any ideas and advice you might have, as do I. ETA: I'm playing a bit of devils advocate and exploring through questions whether this dog is also affected by Canine Cough and not only the cancer. Have sent questions to owner as to whether this was considered by the Vet they've just recently seen. Waiting for response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarlett rose Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Hi there, so sorry to read these posts. Cancer is such a dreadful silent killer. I myself have just gone through this with my purebred Golden Cocker Spaniel. My 11 year old cocker spaniel girl had never had a day sick. She was an extremely healthy lively dog. Last Sunday I took her to a park with my 2 Border Collies and she would run as fast with them non stop, by the Thursday she just seemed a little quieter and a little bit of gastric. Friday morning I noticed her little tummy a bit swollen, we took her to our wonderful vets and they kept her for the day and ran blood tests. At 1pm that day she declined whilst there, they did a scan and noticed she had a tumour in her liver which had bled, hence why the tummy had some swelling, they extracted the blood with a syringe, and sent her home on pain relief and prednisone to keep her comfortable. It was to be our last weekend with her, she loved our son being up from Canberra with her and all our family with her over the weekend and seemed to pick up in herself being given a new toy also. Early hours of Monday morning she was restless, her tummy swelling again. We took her back to the vet and her gums were pale, we very sadly had to send her to Rainbow Bridge. I have never felt so gut wrenched and sad in my life. My little dog was the happiest and only looked about 4 years old. I just cannot believe how fast this disease took. Prior to this there were no symptoms, signs or anything to let me know. Our vet said many a breeder this has happened to also, it is one of those nasty diseases that comes on with no warning! Please everyone if you notice any swelling on your dogs stomachs don't hesitate to have it investigated! The vet had told my husband by phone on the Saturday morning to enjoy her while we have her, he only believed she had about 2 weeks with her, my husband didn't have the heart to tell me, he wanted the family just to love her and be with her being the last weekend we shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) I'm so sorry, Scarlett Rose. I can imagine your devastation and feeling of loss. The only good thing, I guess, is that your girl lived happily almost right up until the last, without distress and by the sounds, minimum discomfort, as well as with her family -- and that is a blessing ..... if a disease should have to befall them at all. Thank you for sharing your story. RIP, Golden CS, and run free as you have until only recently. But this time, for always. Hug your heart, SR. It is raw but full, and that is where your girl will always have a place. Edited August 16, 2014 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarlett rose Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I'm so sorry, Scarlett Rose. I can imagine your devastation and feeling of loss. The only good thing, I guess, is that your girl lived happily almost right up until the last, without distress and by the sounds, minimum discomfort, as well as with her family -- and that is a blessing ..... if a disease should have to befall them at all. Thank you for sharing your story. RIP, Golden CS, and run free as you have until only recently. But this time, for always. Hug your heart, SR. It is raw but full, and that is where your girl will always have a place. Thank you Erny for your lovely kind words. I hope one day they will be able to eradicate this silent killer for our dogs,let alone us poor suffering owners fretting for them. Love your dogs with all your hearts, I always have, but once in a lifetime a really special dog like "Holly" enters into your heart. She slept with me for 11 years, snoring softly beside me every day, I am like a kid without their teddy bear or rag doll to take to bed. I keep waking feeling for her. I know we will meet again some day over rainbow bridge, and to see those beautiful eyes and wagging tail again. Thank you so very much for being so lovely to me. I hope my article will help some other dog owners to keep a watch on their loved dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Hi there, so sorry to read these posts. Cancer is such a dreadful silent killer. I myself have just gone through this with my purebred Golden Cocker Spaniel. My 11 year old cocker spaniel girl had never had a day sick. She was an extremely healthy lively dog. Last Sunday I took her to a park with my 2 Border Collies and she would run as fast with them non stop, I am so sorry to read this, scarlett rose. It's a horror of a disease, for sure. Your darling is now without pain and free waiting at The rainbow Bridge. Hugs & Love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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