Dog Attacks While Being Trained By Cesar Milan

[sandgrubber]

http://www.tmz.com/2014/07/23/cesar-millan-dog-whisperer-dog-attack-great-dane-studio-city/#ixzz38S3Vzjvg

Cesar Millan couldn't stop one of his gigantic clients -- a Great Dane -- from attacking a neighbor during a training session yesterday ... TMZ has learned.

Sources tell us the 'Dog Whisperer' star was walking a group of dogs, including the Great Dane, near his home in Studio City, CA -- and none of the dogs were leashed.

We're told one of Millan's neighbors was out walking his own dog ... and when the neighbor reached out to let the Great Dane sniff his palm ... the dog suddenly bit the man's hand and forearm.

We're told Cesar followed the man to the hospital where he was treated and released. Unclear, at this point, how badly he was injured.

A rep for Millan confirmed the attack, and says Cesar was walking a "troubled dog" as part of its training, when it got "spooked by a neighbor." The rep added, Cesar is still caring for the dog.

We don't know yet how big this dog was -- but adult Great Danes range from 100 to 120 pounds.

A source close to the victim tells us "he's healing," and is following up with a physician today.

[Simply Grand]

He relies way too much on "energy" IMO and whilst he may be able to get away with it most of the time, he endangers other people by telling them to do the same thing. I bet there are a hell of a lot of close calls and even bites that don't get shown or publicised.

[VizslaMomma]

Walking a Great Dane in a pack and no leashes?

That's foolhardy.

[Staffyluv]

I don't necessarily agree with a lot of the stuff he does - but he does get a lot of good results with dogs who have issues - basing this purely on what I have personally read and a few of his shows that I have seen from time to time.

I did see one where he was dealing with a lab with resource guarding issues (I think) and it bit him - he readily admitted that he was at fault when the dog bit him. He did continue working. I personally, didn't like the way he treated the dog - to me it looked like he was bullying the dog into submission but he got the result he wanted in the end..

I don't think walking a great dane (or any breed) unleashed in a pack is an issue (he seems to walk all his dogs unleashed and doesn't have too many problems from what I can see)...

Walking that dog, at that time in the pack, unleashed was a problem. It is one dog and no other dog was a problem, based on the story.

I agree, he does rely a lot on 'his energy' making the dogs behave..

Each to their own but if people take their dogs to him and get the result they want in the end - it isn't a bad thing (just not everyone's cup of tea).

[raineth]

Walking a Great Dane in a pack and no leashes?

That's foolhardy.

And a 'troubled' one at that - so dangerous and inconsiderate

[VizslaMomma]

Walking a Great Dane in a pack and no leashes?

That's foolhardy.

And a 'troubled' one at that - so dangerous and inconsiderate

For sure.

[Guest Clover]

I'll say it again the man is an idiot .

[_PL_]

How arrogant of him.

[BarbedWire]

Cesar Millan is so puffed up with his own ego and self-promotion that he has lost sight of reality. He promotes himself as a pack leader but he actually bullies dogs (his underlings) into submission and then hands them back to their owners, who may not be effective pack leaders, as cured. Sometimes his methods work, and sometimes they probably don't, and possibly one day with tragic consequences. We don't hear about his failures. That's not part of the marketing spiel.

His methods remind me of the horse breakers from last century who rode a horse until it submitted out of exhaustion and then claimed it was broken in. Today we talk about schooling horses, not breaking their spirits.

Edited July 28, 2014 by sarsaparilla

[Edge]

Ceaser Milan is much like any animal training expert, they have taken old school methods that people have used for 100s of years and branded them. Pat Parelli and Monty Roberts are two horse trainers who have done the same thing.

They are very good at "reading" an animal and identifying issues, but their methods atd certainly not new, nor "created by them" just developed slightly and branded. They are exceptional marketers and business people and they profit the most from people who really have no idea. If you watch many experienced dog owners (horse owners) they do what these trainers do everyday, not because they are a follower but because they can read their animals and know how to deal with issues Sergey/before they present.

[BarbedWire]

I agree Edge that a lot of what Millan does is based on his observations of dog body language, as also did both Parelli and Monty Roberts with horses. I can't remember but one of those horse trainers was known as the 'horse whisperer' which is where Millan's 'dog whisperer' comes from.

I do believe that animal training has changed significantly since the middle of last century when the work of Pavlov (stimulus and response and salivating dogs and bells) in the 1890s finally filtered through. Skinner (b 1935) popularised it by advocating operant conditioning for successful animal training. Prior to their work animals were trained by coercion and fear. I believe that Millan still uses fear in his training methods. How else could you describe his alpha roll?

[sandgrubber]

For me the take-home messages are:

1) CM started up as a poor kid from Mexico raised around a lot of dogs. He has amazing ability to read dogs and use his own body language to communicate with them.

2) television and Hollywood have built his native abilities up to a bit of a cult

3) CM will screw up from time to time -- this is one instance of bad judgement. (I suspect he likes dogs more than people and really likes a dog pack, thus will take risks).

Behaviorism has made much of the science of dog training. There is also an art of dog training that requires the native skills CM possesses in abundance. The ideal trainer (rare, and maybe nonexistent) balances science and art. Unfortunately, the ideal trainer will find it easier to transfer the science than the art.

In watching CM, it's probably better to turn off the sound and just watch his moves.

[BarbedWire]

I do agree that people who have grown up around dogs or any other animals often have an instinctive ability to communicate with them, but I do have problems with labelling Millan's ability as an art that is so intricate or mystical that it cannot be easily transferred or understood. (I hope I have understood you here Sandgrubber). Much research has been done recently on dog body language and it is all interesting and Millan would seem to have a good understanding, but I think we, including Millan, have a lot more to learn about how dogs communicate.

I think it is dangerous to accept Millan's theories without question. I think his 'alpha roll' is potentially tragic in the wrong hands. I also think his theory about energy is bizarre. In his book Cesar's Way he tells us that energy is a 'language of emotion' and then on the next page he is telling us that the earth has energy. I'm sorry I cannot accept that the earth has emotions.

Just my opinion :)

[Staff'n'Toller]

I imagine he gets bitten quite often. I don't think he has an amazing ability to read dogs at all, he is intimidating and foolhardy in equal measure.

The video of the Labrador guarding it's food bowl is horrific for anyone who is half decent at reading dog body language. At any rate, he did more damage eroding the dog's trust and reaffirmed to the dog that humans won't pay attention to his signals to back off. Furthermore, the dog had to escalate all the way to biting...what sort of consequence does that have for the people who have to live with that now?

I have seen Monty Roberts live, and I'm not sure you can really compare the two...undecided on that one.

[Amax-1]

What Cesar does with reactive dogs is air block them with his slip leash.......if you watch carefully when he walks a previously reactive dog that settles with him instantly, he's choking the dog out discretely so the dog is more interested in breathing than reacting then the dog tends to avoid the correction whilst Cesar is handling the dog.......it's not magical whispering and is basically the same process William Koehler used with reactive dogs done more discretely.

Most of his training techniques are based on the old school of Koehler and the Monks of New Skete in a re-engineered version. I suspect the PSSSTT noise is associated off camera with a poke in the neck......in some dogs you can see the dog flinch to the PSSSST noise and pull it's head back and for that to happen before the camera rolls, the dog has been probably poked hard in the neck area to associate the sound with an aversive stimulus and consequently go into avoidance.

What assists him greatly is a lack of fear and extreme confidence handling dogs which refers to as leadership where he projects the body language and along with aversives so the dogs fear him more...in a nutshell with Cesar, the dogs are ultimately behaving through correction avoidance which can be seen in their dull persona whilst he is handling and training them.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Amax-1

[BarbedWire]

What Cesar does with reactive dogs is air block them with his slip leash.......if you watch carefully when he walks a previously reactive dog that settles with him instantly, he's choking the dog out discretely so the dog is more interested in breathing than reacting then the dog tends to avoid the correction whilst Cesar is handling the dog.......it's not magical whispering and is basically the same process William Koehler used with reactive dogs done more discretely.

Most of his training techniques are based on the old school of Koehler and the Monks of New Skete in a re-engineered version. I suspect the PSSSTT noise is associated off camera with a poke in the neck......in some dogs you can see the dog flinch to the PSSSST noise and pull it's head back and for that to happen before the camera rolls, the dog has been probably poked hard in the neck area to associate the sound with an aversive stimulus and consequently go into avoidance.

What assists him greatly is a lack of fear and extreme confidence handling dogs which refers to as leadership where he projects the body language and along with aversives so the dogs fear him more...in a nutshell with Cesar, the dogs are ultimately behaving through correction avoidance which can be seen in their dull persona whilst he is handling and training them.

What a wonderful post Amax. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[Aidan3]

CM has a very poor record of reading dogs and I'm always surprised to hear people compliment him on this. That's why things like this happen. His timing isn't great either. He's just very persistent.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Aidan2

[VizslaMomma]

CM has a very poor record of reading dogs and I'm always surprised to hear people compliment him on this. That's why things like this happen. His timing isn't great either. He's just very persistent.

Years ago I watched in horror as he supposedly 'trained' a Vizsla.

At no point did that poor wee Vizsla ever become the calm, submissive dog, he claims they should be.

[Aidan3]

I think we're very suggestible to the narrative, particularly when we're only shown edited footage.

[Staffyluv]

I think we're very suggestible to the narrative, particularly when we're only shown edited footage.

Exactly..

I don't particularly like the way he does things but he obviously is reasonably successful at what he does and has great promotion.

I would never try to do what he does if confronted by a dog that wasn't happy to see me..

I am also surprised we don't hear more about people trying his techniques and getting hurt.