Type Of Halti Recommendation

[cavNrott]

The lunging makes a head collar entirely unsuitable for this dog. I'd also not recommend a harness - you cannot effectively control a dog if you do not have control of its head. Even worse for larger dogs.

Your friend should ask her behaviourist for a recommendation but frankly I'd have the dog on check chain and be doing some intensive training to regain control.

I'll take you word for the fact that the dog is not aggressive but a lunging out of control dog is not what I want to meet on my walks ESPECIALLY if it is in a halti or harness.

Agree with the bolded part above. This is exactly why a head harness can help, though the only one I would use is a genuine Halti. A Halti does control the head and will stop the dog from lunging if used correctly because dog will self correct on a Halti. This is a training tool and should be used along with commands so the dog knows what is expected of it.

A Halti should never be used unless under the supervision of an expert trainer who is experienced in the use of a Halti. Putting a head collar on a dog without being instructed on how to properly use it will teach dog and handler nothing.

A dog wearing a Halti should not be able to pull/lunge at all, not even once. A dog wearing a Halti will self correct if the Halti is used correctly.

A check chain will not teach a dog not to pull or lunge if the dog is a dedicated puller. All the dogs I have owned have been obedience trained but my last large breed dog was a dedicated puller and my years of training experience didn't help a jot. It was a whole new ball game.

A Halti used correctly will teach the dog manners. I believe in using a check chain together with a Halti. The ultimate aim is to use these tools to train the dog so he can be walked on a regular collar without lunging or pulling.

[Salukifan]

A Halti used correctly will teach the dog manners. I believe in using a check chain together with a Halti. The ultimate aim is to use these tools to train the dog so he can be walked on a regular collar without lunging or pulling.

A dog hitting the end of the lead on a halti subjects the most structurally fragile part of its spine to considerable force. Repeated hits are repeated trauma.

They are simply not designed for use that subjects a dog to such forces. No way in hell would I recommend or use one on a dog that lunges, especially with a novice on the lead.

And neither would Australia's leading chiropractic vet. In fact he recommends against their use at all. That's good enough for me.

I also don't believe that any head collar is proof against a dog determined to get out of it. Not what you want on a dog with issues around other dogs.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[persephone]

From what was posted , NO way would I suggest any sort of headcollar , without it being part of a training program ...and , if a trainer and a behaviourist have worked with this dog - what were their recommendations for training equipment ?

They have SEEN the dog and how it is handled , so , ideally , they are better placed to suggest and TRAIN WITH equipment which best suits the situation.

[persephone]

A Halti used correctly will teach the dog manners

Not really

The handler's knowledge of the dog's body language , and how to react will teach the dog 'manners'....whether on a strong flat collar , or something else.

I . M . O - if you don't know WHY your dog is doing what it's doing ..and what to replace it with ....AND how to communicate this to your dog ... no beneficial teaching /training will happen .

[Kavik]

I also agree that a headcollar or harness are not the best training tools for the situation, and that a good trainer would be very beneficial!

Skip, have they tried LAT? May help with the lunging issue long term. http://clickerleash.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/look-at-that-a-counterintuitive-approach-to-dealing-with-reactive-dogs/

This may make me very unpopular, but for equipment I find prong collars much easier to use and more effective than check chains.

[cavNrott]

You're not getting it It is about training. This is what an experienced trainer is all about. A dog wearing a Halti will not hit the end of the lead, even once, when a handler knows what they're doing.

A lunging, pulling dog can suffer serious injuries to the trachea on a choker/check chain in the hands of the inexperienced. Also a dog can very easily back out of a choker chain. It's a lot more difficult for a dog to get out of a Halti when used in conjuction with a choker chain.

I believe neither a Halti nor a choker chain should be used by untrained handlers. Both training tools carry the possibility of causing injury if used incorrectly.

There is no way in hell I would recommend or use a choker on a lunging, pulling dog. Chances are the handler could be dragged onto the road. I see people being dragged along the street by dogs wearing choker chains. I don't see people being dragged along the street by dogs wearing a Halti.

The only answer is to find a reputable, experienced trainer and to use the tools that trainer recommends, with the ultimate aim of the dog eventually walking nicely without lunging, on an ordinary collar or perhaps a martingale.

I'm talking about training the dog out of it's issues, not continuing on without any training while the dog continues to pull and lunge. You seem to be talking about the dog continuing on with all of its current issues.

Training is the key to this whole issue.

[cavNrott]

This may make me very unpopular, but for equipment I find prong collars much easier to use and more effective than check chains.

Yes, yes and yes. Again, as long as the handler is trained in the proper used of a prong.

[Salukifan]

There is no way in hell I would recommend or use a choker on a lunging, pulling dog. Chances are the handler could be dragged onto the road. I see people being dragged along the street by dogs wearing choker chains. I don't see people being dragged along the street by dogs wearing a Halti.

It happens. I know of one incident where the dog (wearing a halti on recommendation from a "trainer" to help deal with aggression/control issues) dragged its handler over 100m to attack another dog. It WAS a big dog though. I have also seen a handler grass skiing on a sporn harness.

I bet you see dogs holding their heads about really unnatural angles or having their heads pulled around on haltis. My pet hate is kids with the lead and a halti on a small dog. Jerk.. pull the lead.. jerk....

[VizslaMomma]

This may make me very unpopular, but for equipment I find prong collars much easier to use and more effective than check chains.

Yes, yes and yes. Again, as long as the handler is trained in the proper used of a prong.

For me this is the very key to the issue.

Guidance from a competent trainer is the foundation.

Well said.

[Kavik]

I've walked some dogs that could pull quite nicely and very strongly in a headcollar!

[cavNrott]

A Halti used correctly will teach the dog manners

Not really

The handler's knowledge of the dog's body language , and how to react will teach the dog 'manners'....whether on a strong flat collar , or something else.

I . M . O - if you don't know WHY your dog is doing what it's doing ..and what to replace it with ....AND how to communicate this to your dog ... no beneficial teaching /training will happen .

My comment that a Halti will teach the dog manners was in the context of my whole post, not as a stand alone comment.

Dogs are not such complicated creatures that they're almost beyond our understanding. My dedicated puller was pulling because she wanted to get there faster than I did. There were no deeply hidden psychological issues.

She turned out to be the most cooperative dog I could have wished for. She was open and so easy to communicate with, though she read me more easily and quickly than I read her. She was a special girl. She walked beside me (not in heel) on a loose lead with a flat collar.

[BC Crazy]

Halti's do NOT teach manners... No 'equipment' will...It's the responsibility of the owner to teach the dog. If the owner need help to do this then it's up to them to engage the help of a breed savvy trainer to guide them :)

[cavNrott]

I've walked some dogs that could pull quite nicely and very strongly in a headcollar!

That would depend on the type head collar being used. A dog cannot pull strongly or as said in another post, 'drag a person forward for 100m' unless the dog's head is pointing forward.

Not all head collars are the same nor are they equal.

[cavNrott]

Halti's do NOT teach manners... No 'equipment' will...It's the responsibility of the owner to teach the dog. If the owner need help to do this then it's up to them to engage the help of a breed savvy trainer to guide them :)

Correct I agree entirely.

Again when I said a Halti will teach a dog manners it was in the context of my whole post in which I stressed the need for training.

Find a reputable, experienced, damn good trainer and the dog will learn manners be it on a Halti or a piece of string.

[BC Crazy]

No your right cavNrott, not all head collars are the same. I wouldn't use anything other than an Infin-8. I don't like those normal Halti's. IMO they pull the dogs head down from what I've seen.

[Kavik]

I've walked some dogs that could pull quite nicely and very strongly in a headcollar!

That would depend on the type head collar being used. A dog cannot pull strongly or as said in another post, 'drag a person forward for 100m' unless the dog's head is pointing forward.

Not all head collars are the same nor are they equal.

It was a Labrador in a gentle leader, just powered on and didn't care one bit!

[VizslaMomma]

We need a LIKE button.

Most savvy group

:)

The topic interests me because of on-going issues with the 8 month Vizsla.

Has the strength of a steam train.

Yes, I am working out the most suitable course of action with him.

Edited July 26, 2014 by VizslaMomma

[cavNrott]

I've walked some dogs that could pull quite nicely and very strongly in a headcollar!

That would depend on the type head collar being used. A dog cannot pull strongly or as said in another post, 'drag a person forward for 100m' unless the dog's head is pointing forward.

Not all head collars are the same nor are they equal.

It was a Labrador in a gentle leader, just powered on and didn't care one bit!

I don't know much about Gentle Leaders, I only know about the Halti.

I'd be a bit disappointed in any head collar that allowed the dog to pull.

[Salukifan]

I'd be a bit disappointed in any head collar that allowed the dog to pull.

They are only as good as the person using them sadly. Some people seem to think they are a magic bullet for pulling. I've seen plenty of dogs who have learned to lean into them and pull.

The magic bullet for pulling is, and has always been, T R A I N I N G. If a halti helps you achieve that, it all good. However, in my experience, a dog once fitted with a halti will wear it for life. Given the sensitivity of a dog's muzzle, that's really sad IMO. Pulling or not, the halti is tightly fitted over highly sensitive nerves. The number of dogs that claw their faces trying to get them off on first fitting is not small.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[cavNrott]

The lunging makes a head collar entirely unsuitable for this dog. I'd also not recommend a harness - you cannot effectively control a dog if you do not have control of its head. Even worse for larger dogs.

Your friend should ask her behaviourist for a recommendation but frankly I'd have the dog on check chain and be doing some intensive training to regain control.

I'll take you word for the fact that the dog is not aggressive but a lunging out of control dog is not what I want to meet on my walks ESPECIALLY if it is in a halti or harness.

Bit of an oxymoron there. You correctly state that you cannot effectively control a dog if you do not have control of it's head. You then go on to recommend a check chain which gives you no control whatsoever of the dog's head.

A lunging dog is not what anyone wants to meet irrespective of whichever training tool the handler is using.