Simply Grand Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 It is illegal to sell pups before 8 weeks in NSW and ACT, possibly other states as well, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's illegal to sell / rehome a puppy under 8 weeks old in Vic too and they have to be microchipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 My bad. At the end of the day I guess the point I was trying to make was to reassure the OP that it is not the end of the world to have a pup that is <8 weeks old and that they can still do great things with their pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neigh55 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Long time Border Collie person here , and I would echo the comments about the importance of mental stimulation and spending time interacting with/ 'working' with the person. When you think what this breed was bred for, you will see that doing 'stuff' with their person was really their primary function. And some days in a farm situation, they would not be working - would be spending most of the day in their yard. For our urban Border Collies, if we can't provide their original work for them, they are very happy to accept substitutes - many of us here do a variety of dog performance sports with out dogs - obedience, Rally O, agility, tracking, Dances with Dogs. Trick training is fine too - anything to help build that bond between dog and person, and help keep that Border Collie brain ticking and occupied. People get hung up on the exercise needs of Border Collies, but really, while they do need a reasonable amount of exercise, if you don't do the mental exercise as well, all you end up with is a very fit bored Border Collie - not something you want to have . For the leash training, it's often good to hust let the puppy trail the leash while he wanders round (in a safe area of course) - you can pick it up loosely and follow him around, then drop it again - rinse and repeat - gradually putting a little bit more pressure on him. They will play with their leashes and try chewing on them, but you can usually distract them pretty easily, and they give up doing that after a while. A good trick is to use the leash to get the puppy to somewhere where he wants to be - e.g.. to his food bowl - then he will be focussing on getting there rather than on the leash. Getting the fence fixed is one of your priorities at this stage - even just so that you can use the yard safely for training and playing. Thankyou very much for the advice on the leash - that will be very helpful :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neigh55 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Perhaps I am missing something here, but is no one concerned he was taken away at 6 weeks? thought that was illegal? How often is he being fed? Thankyou for the concern but he is perfectly fine and has gotten used to our home. The breeder said that he was fine as long as we took extra care of him. I am feeding him 3 times a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neigh55 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Perhaps I am missing something here, but is no one concerned he was taken away at 6 weeks? thought that was illegal? How often is he being fed? I don't think it is illegal, it might be against guidelines though. Having said that I wouldn't be too concerned by it. I have three BC's. Two of them came to us from their breeders at 12 weeks, one of them came to me from a pet shop at 6 weeks. While there is no way that I will ever source pups from anywhere other than a breeder again (for whole variety of reasons) I can honestly say that while all three of my dogs are amazing if I could clone one of their temperaments/dog to dog interaction and general demeanour it would be the one from the pet shop. I'm not saying it is ideal or even desirable that puppies are taken from their mum earlier than 8 weeks just that the OP should not worry too much if their pup is doing fine. Thankyou for the reassurance - I've read alot of things targeting owners with puppies less that 8 weeks but Bobby is doing absolutely fine and does not seem to miss his mum or littermates :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neigh55 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's illegal to sell / rehome a puppy under 8 weeks old in Vic too and they have to be microchipped. I live in Vic but he has been vaccinated, wormed and microchipped and I trust the breeder :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neigh55 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 My bad. At the end of the day I guess the point I was trying to make was to reassure the OP that it is not the end of the world to have a pup that is <8 weeks old and that they can still do great things with their pup. Thankyou :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Perhaps I am missing something here, but is no one concerned he was taken away at 6 weeks? thought that was illegal? How often is he being fed? It is against the ANKC COE.. does not stop BYB and depending on which state (as in State legislation).. not necessarily illegal. Although it is law I think in all states now that they must be microchipped PRIOR to sale and also vaccinated. That part concerned me as well when I read it. But that is when most BYB dogs leave and many have not had their vaccinations or been microchipped. Some have not even been wormed when you read the free ads. Edited July 21, 2014 by Mystiqview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Things Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) In QLD at least there's no legislation on it. Edited July 21, 2014 by Things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 My bad. At the end of the day I guess the point I was trying to make was to reassure the OP that it is not the end of the world to have a pup that is <8 weeks old and that they can still do great things with their pup. Yep - the owner is already stressed and doesn't need people going on about it. It is not ideal, but the fact is it has already happened so now it is time to make the best of the situation and educate for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Leaving mum and his litter mates at 6 weeks - and right before/during a fear period. I would be looking at getting him into a vet puppy school ASAP. At least for the socialisation and interaction with dogs his age. It is the period at the breeder during this time that they are taught how to behave properly with adults and their litter mates. So taking the pup this early, while seeming to cope well at home is no problem, can affect the overall social development of the puppy. Puppies and dogs in general have great coping mechanisms. At this age, sleep is a good one - They sleep a lot. Normal even when they are at the breeders. As for mental stimulation - chew things like pigs ears cut into half (at this age they don't need a full one) things to chew, tear and interact with. You can get puzzle toys for him ranging from easy to more complicated. The best one I saw was a stand with three 1.25L bottles suspended on a rod. they had kibble in them. the dog had to hit the bottle upside down to empty the kibble. Saw a video of it on facebook. cheap as chips to make and interactive for the dog. I would get him outside as soon as you can for at least short periods. Even if you have to get a couple of bunnings compost cages strung together to make a small puppy yard for him to enjoy outside. As for how much mental stimulation and exercise - the dog will tell you how much he needs. There are plenty of articles on the net and forums telling prospective border collie people they need to run their dog 10km a day. Sorry not strictly true. Some dogs yes need a job and are not happy unless they have a job to do, others are just as happy to lounge with you on the couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 A good breeder won't let the pups go until they're at least 12 weeks - but in QLD at least there's no legislation on it. 8 weeks for any medium to large breed is quite fine and there is no issue with it. We cannot let them go before 8 weeks of age. 8 weeks is actually a good age. It is in between two fear periods and gives time for the pup to settle into a routine before the next fear period starts. Owners just have to be careful about taking their pups out in public until at least the second course of vaccinations at 12 weeks. Some small or toy breeds there may be a need to hold them longer due to size/weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Things Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 A good breeder won't let the pups go until they're at least 12 weeks - but in QLD at least there's no legislation on it. 8 weeks for any medium to large breed is quite fine and there is no issue with it. We cannot let them go before 8 weeks of age. 8 weeks is actually a good age. It is in between two fear periods and gives time for the pup to settle into a routine before the next fear period starts. Owners just have to be careful about taking their pups out in public until at least the second course of vaccinations at 12 weeks. Some small or toy breeds there may be a need to hold them longer due to size/weight. I guess if you're sure the person you're giving the pup to has half an idea about owning a dog/puppy then 8 weeks would be fine - but it's clear there's people out there that wouldn't have any idea about exposure before the 12 week shots, so it's safer for the breeder to hold onto them until that at least :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neigh55 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 I completely understand the concern about him being so young, but it has been longer than a week and the breeder is NOT going to take him back. He will be 8 weeks in 4 days. Every Sunday a place near me has dog training. I can assure everyone, as SOON Bobby has had his second vaccinations, taking him to the dog training place is my FIRST priority. In fact, I am prepared to take him to agility classes every second weekend, as well as taking him to farms and large areas so he can have a proper run around. I have lots of dogs living near me and I will definitely go the extra mile to socialise him as much as possible. I know that my situation is not ideal, but this puppy will be showered with so much love and care, as well as exercise and mental stimulation. I am very confident I will raise a beautiful dog. Please no more comments about taking him back to the breeder. It is just not a possible option. But apart from that, thankyou all for the positive comments. I was in a bad state and you have no idea how much help this has been :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 This is the Vic code for small breeders Animals may be sold at any time but mustnot permanently leave the business before 8 weeks of age. Pet shops may not sell a puppy under 8 weeks of age either. http://www.depi.vic.gov.au/pets/domestic-animal-businesses/breeding-and-rearing-businesses/breeding-and-rearing-code Also your puppy may need vaccination boosters - most puppy vaccinations require three shots - ie the main one and two boosters plus two weeks before full immunity is achieved. And after that will require annual vaccinations for some diseases like kennel cough and maybe 3 year vax for some other diseases. I always forget which is what and just get the C5, but have just found out about a local vet (goodwood road near Edward st) that does titre testing (woot). there are good reasons why a puppy should stay with its mum and litter mates until at least 8 weeks. just because you trust the breeder - doesn't make what they say true. That's how people get scammed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 A good breeder won't let the pups go until they're at least 12 weeks - but in QLD at least there's no legislation on it. 8 weeks for any medium to large breed is quite fine and there is no issue with it. We cannot let them go before 8 weeks of age. 8 weeks is actually a good age. It is in between two fear periods and gives time for the pup to settle into a routine before the next fear period starts. Owners just have to be careful about taking their pups out in public until at least the second course of vaccinations at 12 weeks. Some small or toy breeds there may be a need to hold them longer due to size/weight. I guess if you're sure the person you're giving the pup to has half an idea about owning a dog/puppy then 8 weeks would be fine - but it's clear there's people out there that wouldn't have any idea about exposure before the 12 week shots, so it's safer for the breeder to hold onto them until that at least :) That is where as breeders we suss out the prospective buyers. Believe me, If I don't think someone is suitable at 8 weeks, they won't be getting a pup from me at 8 weeks or even 12 weeks for that matter. Some people I would not even give a flea to and that includes some other experienced dog owners/breeders. Lack of socialisation kills more dogs than parvo or kennel cough. Pups can go out at 8 weeks to controlled areas. Vets run puppy schools for pups 8 weeks on. My private obedience trainer runs a continual puppy school for pups 8 weeks on. Poor socialisation is one of the key factors to what leads dogs to bite or antagonise other animals resulting in them being dumped, surrendered and then destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 This is the Vic code for small breeders Animals may be sold at any time but mustnot permanently leave the business before 8 weeks of age. Pet shops may not sell a puppy under 8 weeks of age either. http://www.depi.vic.gov.au/pets/domestic-animal-businesses/breeding-and-rearing-businesses/breeding-and-rearing-code Also your puppy may need vaccination boosters - most puppy vaccinations require three shots - ie the main one and two boosters plus two weeks before full immunity is achieved. And after that will require annual vaccinations for some diseases like kennel cough and maybe 3 year vax for some other diseases. I always forget which is what and just get the C5, but have just found out about a local vet (goodwood road near Edward st) that does titre testing (woot). there are good reasons why a puppy should stay with its mum and litter mates until at least 8 weeks. just because you trust the breeder - doesn't make what they say true. That's how people get scammed. You can with the new vaccines only need to do two shots. One at 6 and 12 weeks. I do the three year vaccinations now. Some very good literature out there on the over vaccination of our pets. Some vets still like to stick to the old "tried and true" three boosters whereas other vets state the two are fine. Just need to tell the vet at the 12 week shot you want the 3 year vaccination as it is a different brand. The dog does should have the booster at 12 months, but does not need the 16 week booster any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 A good breeder won't let the pups go until they're at least 12 weeks - but in QLD at least there's no legislation on it. 8 weeks for any medium to large breed is quite fine and there is no issue with it. We cannot let them go before 8 weeks of age. 8 weeks is actually a good age. It is in between two fear periods and gives time for the pup to settle into a routine before the next fear period starts. Owners just have to be careful about taking their pups out in public until at least the second course of vaccinations at 12 weeks. Some small or toy breeds there may be a need to hold them longer due to size/weight. I guess if you're sure the person you're giving the pup to has half an idea about owning a dog/puppy then 8 weeks would be fine - but it's clear there's people out there that wouldn't have any idea about exposure before the 12 week shots, so it's safer for the breeder to hold onto them until that at least :) Things, I'm sorry, but I can't let this one go. It's quite misleading information, especially for any pups other than very small breeds. When you read the literature about bonding with new owners, socialisation - i.e. getting used to the world outside the original family, the generally accepted ideal time for the rehoming is between 7 and 10-11 weeks - as Mystiqview says, between fear periods. The reason 8 weeks has been set into purebred registries Code of Ethics and State legislation is that with the older type vaccines, it was the age at which there was a fair chance that pup's first vaccination would have taken effect. To the OP - like Piper, I didn't comment on the age as it was a done deal, and the pup looked to have landed in good caring hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I guess if you're sure the person you're giving the pup to has half an idea about owning a dog/puppy then 8 weeks would be fine - but it's clear there's people out there that wouldn't have any idea about exposure before the 12 week shots, so it's safer for the breeder to hold onto them until that at least :) My breeder no longer keeps puppies until 12 weeks unless they are being exported. But she knows the families inside out. Not sure many othr breeders retain them that long anymore. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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