Humping

[Yonjuro]

Hiya,

Ronin is 8.5 months old and has just this week started humping dogs at the park He is still intact and has one retained testicle :( we have had regular vet visits and agreed that 9 months will be around the time to have him neutered. I had originally intended 12-18 months but we don't think it is wise to wait this long.

So back to the humping. We regularly visit a fenced in off-lead park that is really wonderful and we both enjoy it. He is great with other dogs of all sizes. He had the most amazing wrestling and playing battle with a female 2 year old Rotti a couple of days ago, it was great play. However, he seems to pic out a dog - usually a neutered Lab (male) and continually trys to mount. I have a harness with a handle on the back so I pull him off with a "leave it" and take him away for a couple of minutes, but he will go straight back to the one dog of choice on any given day.

I am very conscious of the Lab owners but they are very understanding, but I certainly don't like it. I usually then put his lead on and leave.

He doesn't do it with his best mate who is an intact GR nor a neutered Aussie. It seems only certain dogs and as I said it has just started. I will be discussing this with our trainer when I see her next week. We normally see her every 2 or 3 weeks these days so this has occurred in-between sessions.

Anyway, I thought I would ask for some advice here.

We invest a lot in time and money with training and Ronin and I have really benefitted from it. We always get comments from other owners about how well behaved he is, but this new behaviour is frustrating.

Also, he has never tried humping my 6 year old daughter or any other human.

Any advice and comments are welcome.

[LisaCC]

Unfortunately you may find neutering does bugger all with humping. I know a desexed bitch who tries to hump Nova.

Nova has only humped one dog who was very submissive, and I approached it the same way as you do with ronin, harness or collar grab and tell him off. That stops him in in tracks.

I think putting his lead on and leaving might be the best option, but I'm sure people with more experience will chime in

[aliwake]

Nixon has only humped other dogs twice - both were the two visits to the park immediately after I got him desexed :)

If you were getting close to desexing anyway, it wouldn't hurt to do it soon. He will still have some testosterone for another 2months (I think), so if that is fueling his behaviour, it won't be an immediate improvement. All you can do is be consistent with your corrections in the meantime, until the testosterone reduces.

I don't know what it is about labs though - every dog in our park that is inclined towards humping will hump nixon!! It's so weird! Both boys and girls. He's very popular :)

ETA I guess it can also be a dominance thing. The (desexed) girl that is the most determined humper at our park is a similar age to Ronin and she's only really started doing it in the last month or so.

Edited July 16, 2014 by aliwake

[Yonjuro]

Thanks for the comments.

I wasn't looking at the neutering being the answer, as it has to happen soon because of the cryptorchidism. A few people mentioned their dogs went through the phase around this age and didn't keep up the habit. Others have suggested that a neutered male dog smells different or gives of different pheromones as a reason why some neutered males get targeted??

I don't know what his attraction to the labs are, maybe these particular lab are very tolerant or cruisey.

I also noticed, and this might be a coincidence, is that when I took to the same park in the late morning he did no mounting, but in the evening he was all fine until the labs rolled up.

My trainer doesn't feel he is dominant or submissive in character, but she is at this point unaware of this new behaviour. Maybe I should give her a call :)

[aliwake]

Definitely worth having a chat to your trainer - sounds like she knows him pretty well!

He's a teenager now, and will try to push boundaries in a variety of ways - this could be one of them? Don't completely dismiss hormones as the cause though - it is possible that it's related.

[RiverStar-Aura]

It could be a dominance thing, especially if you do frequent this particular park. I've found at the parks I frequent, the regular dogs have formed a well-established pack with a set hierarchy. As Ronin is maturing, he might be simply trying to establish his own place within the 'pack' by starting to mount specific dogs.

It might not even be that. It could be something as simple as being over-stimulated/over excited. Best to see if your trainer can help sort it out.

[Yonjuro]

Definitely worth having a chat to your trainer - sounds like she knows him pretty well!He's a teenager now, and will try to push boundaries in a variety of ways - this could be one of them? Don't completely dismiss hormones as the cause though - it is possible that it's related.

Thanks, I agree and I am not discounting hormones as this is what I do think is the primary reason - with the caveat that I don't profess to be an expert in this :laugh: all my previous dogs have been female :)

It could be a dominance thing, especially if you do frequent this particular park. I've found at the parks I frequent, the regular dogs have formed a well-established pack with a set hierarchy. As Ronin is maturing, he might be simply trying to establish his own place within the 'pack' by starting to mount specific dogs.It might not even be that. It could be something as simple as being over-stimulated/over excited. Best to see if your trainer can help sort it out.

Thank you, I have left a message with my trainer, so hopefully we can get to the bottom of it ...no pun intended :D

[Pretty Miss Emma]

In many instances humping is a behaviour that dogs do when they are over stimulated. So the appearance of a lot of dogs combined with a whole heap of play could just be waaayyyy too exciting for him, so basically the release of his excitement is to hump. I also believe it can be an anxiety related behaviour, again the humping is a way to self calm if the dog is anxious.

I'm sure a professional will be able to shed more light on the situation though!

[Yonjuro]

In many instances humping is a behaviour that dogs do when they are over stimulated. So the appearance of a lot of dogs combined with a whole heap of play could just be waaayyyy too exciting for him, so basically the release of his excitement is to hump. I also believe it can be an anxiety related behaviour, again the humping is a way to self calm if the dog is anxious.

I'm sure a professional will be able to shed more light on the situation though!

Thanks very much for your input, more food for thought. :)

[Simply Grand]

Haha, this is exactly what happened with Riley! He was cryptorchid as well ( I waited until 13 months to desex) but as soon as he hit 8 months his hormones kicked in and he started attempting to hump both males and females. He had a different approach to both though, his body language with females was quite polite and appeasing and he would follow them around trying to mount now and then whereas with males he was more direct and would approach in a more confident, upright manner and go straight to trying to mount. I think with females he actually had a drive to mate and with males it was more attempting to establish dominance. He was pretty clueless about both though and it was quite hilarious to watch :laugh: Other people probably wouldn't find it quite so amusing with a Husky doing it rather than a small Sheltie.

Obviously it wasn't desirable behaviour so I would just watch him closely and call him away when he started showing signs of being about to do it. Then I'd distract him with some other activity and move away. If he kept heading back to the same dog I would put him on the lead for a while, not as a punishment per se, I'd still give him attention and something else to focus on, but just to prevent him focussing in on whoever he wanted to hump.

It went on for probably six months or so but was manageable with a good recall and he did grow out of it.

I personally don't see humping as a problem behaviour in itself, I think it's a normal part of dog behaviour. My three do it to each other and are able to deal with others doing it to them (as in they can appropriately communicate that it's not cool, have an attempted hump off with another dog until they sort it out between them or occasionally go along with it - hussy Quinn) BUT I understand for a lot of people and some dogs any sign of humping is very unwelcome so it's really important to be able to interrupt the behaviour and call your dog away immediately :)

[Simply Grand]

Oh, and agree with what PME said!

[Yonjuro]

Thanks SG,

That is good that yours sorted itself out, I am also interested that your were able to hold out for 13 months to desex as I kind of wanted to wait a bit too. Thanks for your comments :)

[Simply Grand]

Riley was very little and I wanted to give him every chance to grow to correct size :laugh: From what I read about the risks of a retained testicle it seemed like there were unlikely to be issues with cancer developing until it remained retained for several years so I decided to wait in order to let him grow fully. There were no issues when he was desexed, other than that the teste was right up in his abdomen is it was quite a surgery! But it would have been anyway, whenever it was done.

[Simply Grand]

And actually, I think I'd read about testes descending at up to 10 months old so I was never planning to do it before then (this is just from memory, it was two years ago now, so don't take it as gospel).

Edited July 16, 2014 by Simply Grand

[Yonjuro]

Thanks SG,

My vet and the breeder don't feel that the nut will drop now, and he is definitely on the large side of the breed standard. So we will probably stick with the vets advice for 9 months.. well I only have 2 more weeks before that anyway

Thanks again for sharing your experience :)

[luvsdogs]

The 1st part of your post Yonjuro sounded like Panda was at 7.5 mths except he didn't hump but started cocking his leg inside, & he had 2 retained testicles. I had wanted to wait until at least 12 - 18 mths to have him desexed but didn't want to have any problems, so I had him done at 8 mths. It wasn't until after he'd been done that I'd read about people waiting until after 12 mths. Anyway, after that he never cocked his leg inside again until we got Laci 8 mths ago, with a stern 'no' he hasn't done it again. :D

[Yonjuro]

Thanks Luvsdogs,

He has been a bit better with the humping but will try it on and if the dog is very submissive I have to grab him, walk him away, get him to sit. This helps.

Anyway, he is booked in for his surgery next Friday, he will be 9.5 months and this is what the vet recommended previous vet recommended 5 months. Anyway the surgery is really only for the potential health issue of the retained nut, not for behavioural reasons. I have heard of some waiting for up to 3 years with no problem resulting from the cryptorchidism, but we made the decision with the vet so we are going to proceed with it. He is of a good size so I am hoping that I won't regret opting for surgery at this stage of development.