Raw Food Puppy- Diarrhoea !

[Shellbell]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and have a 12 week old cavalier puppy named George. I'm trying to do the raw diet and it was going really well until the last 4 days where he's had some pretty gross diarrhoea! He had his jabs today so I asked the vet to check him out and he says its a food thing not illness since he's happy and FULL of beans! I've been trying to balance the meat/bone/offal but after speaking with a pet shop owner today where I almost caved in and bought some holistic kibble on advice from a friend who's a vet who doesn't fully approve of raw with no kibble, but the pet shop owner felt that it might be because I'm not giving carbs so it might be too protein heavy??

He's been having 160-170g food per day in 3 meals plus a chicken neck or two. Either chicken fillet minced up with a bit of coconut oil and sometimes spirulina, or organic beef/lamb mince which apparently has the offal and bone balanced in it. Also raw veggies mixed in at least one meal a day. I'm very unsure about what bones are appropriate other than chicken necks as I'm scared to choke him. So today I purchased Vets All Natural blend of oats and natural stuff that I soak in water and add to the raw. The vet said that was fine to try so off I went. George loves it, but he's a cavvie and would pretty much eat anything!! It said best soaked overnight for better digestion but that you can soak for a few minutes in hot water, which I did in my haste to try it!! He ate it at lunchtime but tonight before I fed him again he vomited (and ate it!!! Ewww!) So I'm not sure if that was a vaccination side effect or the food, perhaps because I didn't soak it overnight?? Clearly, I'm very overwhelmed and confused. I'm very neurotic about this puppy because we just lost our 1 year old puppy to cancer which was very tragic and quick, and George is my daughters new little baby to make us all happy again and I'm trying to do the best I can for him!! Please help!!! Thank you!

[RuralPug]

I would be feeding him boiled chicken and rice until the diarrhoea stops and then gradually going back onto the puppy diet he was doing well on. If he stasrts diarrhoea again, replace components of his diet. You really do need to establish what was causing the diarrhoea - it may simply have been something a bit rich or a bit off. I wouldn't be scrapping the whole diet until you establish what part of it caused the problem (and it is not impossible that puppy ate something he shouldn't have, either).

A lot of dogs do well on VAN supplements with meat meals but it is too high in grain for my own liking. In my opinion dogs do not need many carbohydrates, they are a carnivore first and foremost.

The best diet for your dog is the one that he does best on, do not let anybody (with the possible exception of a fully qualified canine nutritionist) browbeat into saying their way is best.

If he doesn't choke on chicken necks, then he is unlikely to choke on any other raw meaty bones! Adding the odd whole egg (including shell) and some fish a couple of times a week would also be good.

Search this forum for threads about raw feeding - there is so much information out there. Remember, though, that puppies need a slightly different diet than adults who have reached their full growth. Good luck!

[denali]

I raw feed my three cavvies and the chicken bones are what they get mostly - wings, drumstciks, necks.

This is mainly because they're small and dont need larger bones, not because they couldn't eat larger bones.

Despite the fact you feed him meat, its not 100% protein :) which is a common misconception.

Maybe just up the bone content for a bit to firm it up, the premade mix you are getting may just be a little too high in organ content.

Agree with ruralpug, if he is doing well before this there is no reason to switch out straight away.

Have you been steaming or pureeing the veggies?

This makes them more nutritionally available to the dogs :)

[Salukifan]

Shellbell:

Either chicken fillet minced up with a bit of coconut oil and sometimes spirulina, or organic beef/lamb mince which apparently has the offal and bone balanced in it.

I suggest you find out if it actually has the bone because my first thoughts looking at this diet are that it's potentially calcium deficient. If it is minced with offal, I'm guessing this is a 'pet mince'? I recommend you switch to human grade meats and feed the offal yourself. Keep the meat on the bone.

There are many threads here on raw feeding and plenty of folk who do it but I suggest you take it back to basics. Feed lots of meat on the bone - raw chicken wings and necks, something like VAN with meat or make or buy a balanced meat veggie mix. Cut out the extras initially. A simpler diet will help you figure out why he's getting the runs. What did you add in the last 4 days?

You could add some kibble but feed it only every other meal and keep the RMBs up.

Personally, I avoid feeding mince unless its human grade.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Gretel]

Yes some great advice. I'd definitely be putting him on chicken and rice to settle his poor little guts. Please come and see us in the Cavalier thread and post some photos :D

[Shellbell]

Thank you everyone for the advice. So today I'm doing raw chicken with rice and we'll see how he goes. He did a couple of stools overnight and hurrah, they were firmer!!

Just a question about bones, how many chicken necks should I feed him a day. I've only been doing one or two but I suppose I could feed a few more and reduce the chicken and rice mix?

I will check out the raw threads today, last nught I was in a mad panic and doubting myself abd just joined and addedmy post straight away!

Thank you for all of the advice!

[Gretel]

Better to cook the chicken at the moment. More easily digested. You can also toss a teaspoon of cornflour on it to firm up the stools.

[Gretel]

Feed the cooked chicken and rice for a few days before slowly introducing necks and other foods back into the diet.

[sheena]

What are you giving him in the way of treats. Some treats like dried liver can give pups the scoots really bad

[Darcy&Zoe]

I have a 6 month old cavalier that is now on raw diet.

I would also add more bone to firm up the poo. But keep up the cooked chicken and rice for a few days until the poo is firm and then gradually introduce the raw chicken necks.

What type of meat are you giving your puppy? I found with my girl roo meat didn't agree with her when younger and gave her the runs so once I stopped that she was fine on raw. You will probably find it is one specific meat that didn't agree with her rather than raw as a whole.

If you introduce one type of meat over a few days (rather than a selection of different meats) you will see what agrees with puppy and what doesn't.

I'd love to see a pic of your cav puppy :)

[Shellbell]

I would love to post a pic of my Georgie Porge but I have no idea how!! I'm hopeless with technology and in fact have lost 2 posts that I thought I'd posted but it didn't work, so my apologies if anyone has asked me questions and I haven't answered!

I haven't been giving him treats other than chunks of raw veggies because he loves them! (Wierd dog!) i am looking for some raw treats that aren't full of yukky crap so any suggestions would be welcome!

He's only had chicken and an organic mix of beef/lamb/offal. He'd been on it for about a week with no problem though, so I thought it was fine for him.

I have given him some boiled chicken and brown rice as suggested by quite a few of you on here, and he loved it. So far still no loose stools since the night before last so fingers crossed!

[persephone]

maybe hold off on raw veggie chunks? Veges are best fed grated/processed finely/cooked - otherwise they are not digested well .

I make treats from sweet potato skin .. dried out a bit in teh oven ..or carrots microwaved - so they become rubbery . they are then cut into tiny pieces :) My guys LOVE store bought dried apple slices - given as small bits , too.

[Darcy&Zoe]

yep cook the vegies :)

No potatoes, only sweet potato if you want to give potato

[Shellbell]

Ok, so with the veggies that I've been whizzing up in my thermomix and smashing into his meats, should they be cooked first? I read that raw veggies were best, in the way that they are for humans, that cooking destroys nutrients. Is that incorrect for dogs? I also read that giving chunks of carrot etc was great for treats!! (He doesn't really eat it all but loves to chew it, same with thick stalks of kale, he's been munging on one for 2 days like a bone!)

It's so conflicting! It's no wonder most people just buy kibble and canned food!!! Still no loose stools! Still crossing fingers!

[Darcy&Zoe]

Dogs cannot digest raw vegies. So best to cook them first before adding to the meat.

Once you get going with a raw diet, it is simplier than it first seems :)

[persephone]

and remember your puppy is still a baby ..his digestive system is possibly not as adept as an adult's at handling the tough stuff yet ;)

our baby pups get whole carrots & apples .. so it takes them AGES to get through one ..and they chew of little bits at a time - when they want - they aren't just given X amount to eat then & there .

Dogs don't really need much vegetable at all - how much are you feeding , in proportion to meat /bone?

[Gretel]

Dogs can digest raw fruit and veg so long as they are very well processed. I recommend you buy Ian Billinghursts book on feeding for a good understanding.

[Shellbell]

Funny you should say that Gretal, I've ordered that book! Can't wait to get it!

I'm not feeding much veg. Every second day (roughly) i've been processing up about a tablespoon or of raw veg into one of his 3 meals, plus letting him have small chunks of carrot or big thick kale stalks every now and then if I'm chopping it up for us, but as I've said, he's mostly just chewing on them like a bone and not eating it.

I've also been adding a teaspoon of coconut oil about twice or 3 times a week and half a teaspoon of spirulina once a week which depending on what I read is either very necessary or a complete waste of my expensive spirulina for our green smoothies!!

So...is this too much veg? Not enough beg? Too raw??

[persephone]

I really don't think he needs spirulina ;)

Try cutting back on the coconut oil as well - give him a 1/4 teaspoon, then gradually increase to 1/2 ? He's only little...and it is pure fat - which can cause tummy upsets ...

Maybe, when he gets slowly back onto his normal food - break the veg up and use in his 3 meals ..divide that tablespoonful into 3 ? What veg do you use, by the way?

Edited July 15, 2014 by persephone

[Shellbell]

I mostly give him carrot and brocolli, sometimes cauliflower.

I will try doing as suggested, splitting uo the veggies into 3 meals etc and reducing coconut oil. But for now I will stick with the boiled chicken and brown rice for a couple of days and then add chicken necks back in, then some veggies but cooked ones. Does that sound ok?

The great news is that George just did another solid poo that isn't too dark and not too light! So that's now 2 days of normal stools after 4 days of diarrohea! Hope it continues so I can start trying out all of the great advice from everyone and get him back on raw. Other than chicken necks, what bones are people giving their little pups? I don't want to break his teeth or choke him but he seems to cope beautifully with chicken necks. And also, do butchers tend to do the right sort of bones? We are on a mostly vegan diet these days due to my daughter having cancer so we are all super healthy now, so the whole meat on the bone thing is probably easier if I make friends with a butcher, yes??