Heads Up More Breed Specific Legislation On The Table

[sandgrubber]

I'm confused.

Didn't the Kennel Club (UK) revise breed standards for many (most) brachy breeds to penalize extreme brachy conformation a few years back? Didn't Australia follow suit (while the US adamantly refused)?

How's this going? Is change from within happening?

...or has my memory failed me (again)?

p.s. I found a source http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/activities/dog-showing/breed-standards/about-breed-standards/

quoting from it

In 2009, all of the breed standards were reviewed to ensure that no standard demands any feature which could prevent a dog from breathing, walking and seeing freely. Breed health and welfare is a driving force of the Kennel Club and so any feature described in a breed standard which might threaten the wellbeing and quality of life of a dog is eschewed. Above all, dogs of all breeds should be able to live healthy, comfortable lives. Most pedigree dogs are bred as family pets and companions so health and soundness must come first.

Edited July 5, 2014 by sandgrubber

[Sheridan]

Every time one of these things comes up, people say the public needs to be educated. It's been happening since I've been on DOL and no doubt the same thing was said before I was on DOL. And still, nothing happens. The state bodies do nothing and the national body does nothing. Why is that?

[persephone]

I don't understand how it can be acceptable to breed dogs that can't breathe properly. It is upsetting to watch a dog wake up with an ET tube still in after surgery, with the best airway it's ever had, only to struggle to breathe again once the tube has been removed. The poor dogs have reduced oxygen saturation permanently.

yes I hope something useful and helpful comes of the discussions ...

[Are You Serious Jo]

Kelpies for everyone!

[Kirislin]

when I was a kid our family had a pedigree Peke. I haven't seen them as a breed for years now, but since starting to show Neko in the toy group, I've seen a few. I was shocked at the change in them. Incredibly thick coats, very short legs, really just feet attached to the body. The handler had to walk them around really slowly, they cannot even trot out, just a slow waddling great ball of fluffy fur with mouth open gasping for breath.

Our little girl had much less hair, more like the thickness of a border collie I think from memory. She had a pretty snub face and would snuffle and snort, and had enough problems, but 50 years on it's so much more extreme.

[persephone]

Kelpies for everyone!

or black maltese? ;)

[Are You Serious Jo]

Nah, long coats are cruel remember...

[Steve]

The stated reason for the discussion paper is to try to get some action going to increase the welfare and quality of life of dogs. Every brachy dog has BOAS to some degree, Some have it to a greater degree than others and because the extreme brachy head has developed relatively slowly it has resulted in the desensitization of society to the resultant welfare issues.Most People don't see anatomically deformed dogs as shocking nor is it seen as abnormal. People buying dogs of some breeds are simply told what the risks are with the breed because of its look and expected to live with it and they do. Many breeding them don't seem to care that they are producing animals which will live with health issues and "muzzle relatively short" in a breed standard has become for some a head like a bowling ball.

Purebred CC breeders deny they breed dogs which suffer dueto brachy head and not enough record keeping or information is available to prove that they do or don't , though we do know that at least some do and that all brachy head breeds have brachy head syndrome to some degree and a quicklook at websites telling us about what dogs they are using for breeding sort of dumps some of them in it a bit. Someone is breeding them so I Hope there are some good submissions going in which show what's being done.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Steve

[~Anne~]

Totally agree with everything you've said Steve.

[moosmum]

Every time one of these things comes up, people say the public needs to be educated. It's been happening since I've been on DOL and no doubt the same thing was said before I was on DOL. And still, nothing happens. The state bodies do nothing and the national body does nothing. Why is that?

Because they are a registry only. I think thats a good thing, BUT ...They have left themselves open to an expectaion of more through ruling beyond the scope of a 'registry only'. That brings an expectaion of more.

I've also called for more education. Now I believe thats better achieved through exposure and cultural change. Acceptance and a more welcoming, helpful and less judgemental introduction to dog ownership.

We should all be promoting responsible good practices. Explaining the what and why of requirements to being a good owner, not censuring.

We don't concentrate on promoting good practices. We assign blame and broadly label,then try to eliminate not the practices, but the whole label.

Poor practices aren't confined or universal to any label, but are more a symptom of the slow de-valuing of the dogs themselves.

From a human psychology perspective, promoting good practices and knowledge adds value to the 'product'.

High-lighting the poor and bad practices de-values the product.

Edited July 7, 2014 by moosmum

[Linda K]

one thing I can add is that it is interesting that this paper was circulated to DogsVic, as well as the AVA and the RSPCA (and possibly other groups), but even though it includes brachy cats in the paper, it was NOT circulated to the cat governing bodies here in Vic - luckily someone who was a dogsvic member alerted our cat group to this paper so that we could ask to be included in the discussions and prepare a response as well. The very fact that yet again the cat groups were not included initially and even the AVA response do not mention cats anywhere in it is concerning - this covers so many cat breeds, obviously Persian, but also Exotic (short haired Persians), Selkirk Rex, British Shorthair and burmese (and therefore possibly also Mandalay, Bombay) and possibly others that I have left out. As a Persian breeder, I know that the standard has certainly been amended to make sure that the nostrils are wide, the nose not as extreme as it had gone and a maximum height position of it advised for starters to try to address the problems, however as has already been pointed out, it is all very well to change the standards, but if there are people out there as BYB or mills just breeding with anything, (and had seen one of those at a home visit a few weeks ago, where the jaw alignment of her pet shop Persian was simply horrific - the lower jaw was so much forward of her upper jaw) then the standards alone will not change that. EDucation of the public to be more knowledgable when buying is the first key.

Making all breeders CT scan all their cats or dogs (at a advised cost to me by a very knowledgable cat vet, who said that these machines are only found at the larger vet hospitals or places like Werribee), of $1000 min per animal (plus the added risk of a GA for each one to be done), with no real idea of what the scoring system (which is not even in place yet), is looking for or how it might need to be adjusted as the animal amtures, nor even any idea of if one CT scan once in an animals life is enough or not - I can certainly say from my own point of view that if I had to CT scan all my cats say annually, I would not be breeding anymore

I agree with the point that I think this is yet another thing designed to help get rid of the purebred breeders, and legitimise the designer dogs and cats - selling the idea that here is the dog or cat with sme of the look yu love, but none of those BAS concerns

I also noted that the paper referred to other concerns that they said were problems with brachy dogs, but then did not go further into those - if they were going to say that GA concerns are a problem, they listed not one reference on such evidence - in which case why mention it at all. It is also not against the law in all of Germany to breed cats like they quote in the paper - that was proposed back in 2000's but has never been passed over there. But nothing like quoting something they read in another paper without actually double checking whether it is actually true or not, why let fact checking get in the way. I have also been advised by my vet friend that the DEPI has also asked the AVA to work on the CT scale for brachy breeds, so certainly does seem as if they want to push everyone into this area, even though this is not even a recognised tool for determining if there will be any issues.

Either way, as a breeder of Persian cats, I am also very wary that this will simply end with all brachy dogs and cats being put on the heritable defects list, with the net result we cannot breed purebreds anymore (which will only result in more people buying from interstate anyway, which will do nothing to change anything)

[moosmum]

I don't believe this is a result of anyone trying to eliminate pure breeds. Just people trying to look out for welfare of animals. Just like laws targeting puppy farms, limits on numbers of dogs able to be kept by non breeders etc. Animal welfare is a bigger issue than ever before.

These are breed specific issues that did not originate any place other than specific pure breeds.

This is an environmental demand for animals that meet the needs of their environment. Until registries are set up to allow for environmental influence (by allowing for legitimate choice of alternatives) there will be more.

Change from within is difficult because those who try are battling against a culture that is set and geared to please those who are already wholey accepted in that culture, before environmental demands can be met.

[megan_]

The breeder of my sisters French bulldog told her to assume that her dog would have problems breathing and budget for surgery. How can anyone breed dogs where a high % of the litter will require surgery? I know all French bulldogs aren't like that, but there do seem to be a fair few churning out these pups. Her vet said he sees lots of them for the same problems.

Where is the breed club making a stand (a genuine question?). Are dogs that snort when running made to leave the ring?

[~Anne~]

For many brachys BAOS doesn't become a serious problem until later in life. I'm not 100% certain but I believe not many dogs are shown past about 5. Happy to stand corrected on this though. This is perhaps one reason why you don't see a lot of breathing issues in the ring.

The problem is exacerbated in older dogs as the years of forcing air through the airways weakens the trachea and larynx. Also, natural age deterioration means that fitness is lost and more pressure is put on the airways.

What has always amazed me is that although the physical aspects of BAOS are largely not able to be visualised by a generalised look over, stenotic nares are and yet I see champion after champion with this very visible feature.

Edited July 7, 2014 by ~Anne~

[shapeshifter]

Personally I definitely think there are issues and yes something has to be done sooner rather than later and if the breeds won't do anything about it then if it has to come from a legal standpoint I'd support it.

What is interesting is what I've seen in some of the smaller dogs I've been looking at, there is definitely a 'trend' for some of the almost normal muzzled dogs to start towards a flatter muzzle. This is bizarre to me, to want to add problems to a breed of dog that doesn't presently have them.

[Steve]

Look its not about not breeding certain breeds its about breeding them with a bit of a nose - either breed them with a bit of a nose or have them interfere and if anyone needs to be told why - its time they had a rethink.

[shapeshifter]

Look its not about not breeding certain breeds its about breeding them with a bit of a nose - either breed them with a bit of a nose or have them interfere and if anyone needs to be told why - its time they had a rethink.

Definitely, make them better before they tell you, you can't breed them at all.

[cavNrott]

That's so beautifully simple Steve but will the dogs with a bit of a nose be put up in the ring? If the judges don't do right by the dogs then the breeders won't breed for a bit more nose. Who then will we hold responsible when these brachy breeds can no longer be bred at all?

[shapeshifter]

Spot on cav, what breeders/breed clubs have got to start realising is that they are in danger of no longer being in control of their breeds, once it's in the legal system, it will be unlikely to ever come out again.

[*kirty*]

If everyone breeds the same way, judges will have to just get used to it.