How Many Bones Are Too Many?

[Darcy&Zoe]

Hi everyone

On some very good advice I am now feeding my cavalier puppy a raw diet which is working well. My only concern is a few people have mentioned I may be overdoing it with bones as it will cause constipation.

She is fed a raw chicken neck for brekky (plus some meat) and another for dinner (plus some meat). (she is also given vegies, cheese, egg, fruit.) I find eating the chicken necks stimulate her appetite (which has been a huge problem). Every second day she is given a raw chicken wing for breakfast (as opposed to the raw chicken neck and meat) which I believe gives a good balance of meat and bone.

Is this too much bone for her in one week?

[Esky the husky]

Personally wouldn't be feeding fruit or cheese ( or only as a very rare treat)

Have a read of some of the threads in here, they go into more detail.

With raw feeding you've got to make sure there's a balance of bone, meat and offal, too much or too little of either can cause issues.

:)

[Diva]

Most prey model raw feeders say edible bone should make up about 10% of the diet. Sounds like you may be feeding more than that. But if she is not showing signs of constipation, and her stools are not chalky and very hard, I don't know that I would worry on that score. Make sure she get some red meat, not just chicken.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Diva

[Darcy&Zoe]

Yep trying to get a variety into her, but she is finicky but I will persist. chicken is definitely a favourite. We have only just started on this diet so no signs of issues at this point. I am definitely going way over the 10% Perhaps I will keep going as I am as a back up to see what meats she will eat and what she wont.

I have read quite a few threads but none specifically said how much is too much which is my concern.

The only fruit she will eat on occasion is apple and cheese is only a treat. She does get offal, but not every day.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Darcy&Zoe

[RuralPug]

It doesn't have to be the right balance every day, it DOES have to the the right balance on average over each week or so.

When you are thinking about how much of each food group to feed (on average) it may help to think of a rabbit carcass. How much of that is bone, how much muscle meat, how much edible organs, how much skin etc. etc. That is probably a good rough ratio for a prey diet, especially if supplements are given and meat types are varied, fishes included, blended green leafy veges (in proportion to the stomach content of a grazer) and the odd bits of fruit etc.

It is really great if you can find other body part type foods, such as green tripe, bird feet, hooves and horns (those last two for chewing rather than eating if that makes sense) in the sort of proportion you would find on an animal carcass. (Not that you would find a rabbit with hooves and.or horns - I hope! )

There are probably as many types of diets as there are raw feeders LOL and the one that works best for your dog is the best one.

[Dame Aussie]

I would keep an eye on her poos and if they are chalky and hard reduce the bone content.

[DeltaCharlie]

10% of bones DOES NOT mean only 10% of what we consider bones (chicken necks etc) it means the ACTUAL bone. So a chicken neck is not 100% bone, it would be no more than 25-30% bone (depending on the neck) and the rest of it is meat. A chicken wing would be even less, maybe 15% bone 85% meat/fat.

I would be more worried about the large amount of chicken in her diet, chicken is ok but not a great source of energy etc. If my dogs eat too much chicken they become sluggish, might not be such an issue with a house pet though, ours are performance dogs.

As a raw feeder, poo is your friend :laugh: If it is black you need more bone, if it is white you need less :)

In saying that though, the key is balance over time. We don't feed bones on a weekend night as vets tend to be closed if they are choking, or we are trialling and can't afford a problem (not that we have ever required a vet trip for a dog with a bone, in 15 years and with 11 dogs- the risk is always there though). So ours get bones from mon-thurs nights and have meat on the weekends. Usually lamb brisket, chicken carcass (as we buy them with all the organs still inside- heart, liver etc), beef brisket, turkey wings, rabbit (quite expensive though), piece of fish (can buy fish leftovers used for stock from most fish co-ops, little dogs can't get through a salmon head but they can eat the body, or a whole sardine), or the bigger dogs get a roo tail (our small dogs wouldn't get through them though). If they have had a lot of dense bone for those 4 days then their poo will go white, but then they get the majority meat for 3 days and it sorts itself out :)

[DesertDobes]

As a raw feeder, poo is your friend :laugh: If it is black you need more bone, if it is white you need less :)

I like that, good simple way to tell.

[Diva]

According to one of my reference sites, a chicken wing is about 40% bone, a neck about 30%.

[Darcy&Zoe]

10% of bones DOES NOT mean only 10% of what we consider bones (chicken necks etc) it means the ACTUAL bone. So a chicken neck is not 100% bone, it would be no more than 25-30% bone (depending on the neck) and the rest of it is meat. A chicken wing would be even less, maybe 15% bone 85% meat/fat.

I would be more worried about the large amount of chicken in her diet, chicken is ok but not a great source of energy etc. If my dogs eat too much chicken they become sluggish, might not be such an issue with a house pet though, ours are performance dogs.

As a raw feeder, poo is your friend :laugh: If it is black you need more bone, if it is white you need less :)

Thanks for your help DeltaCharlie and RuralPug. Is turkey too similar to chicken to get any benefits from offering that as well? I will be offering her minced or diced chicken, beef, lamb, pork and turkey.

I hadn't thought of the meat aspect of the necks and wings so that is good to know. She seems happier with her chicken necks than the wings (which take her a good hour to eat lol)

I am thinking I will keep offering chicken necks but add in other meats to the mix, like today she had a chicken neck but then had some diced beef (she wasn't as keen as she is with minced and diced chicken, but she ate it with a lot of encouragement :D ) I am offering either heart or liver every second day too. The only vegie she likes atm is cooked carrot.

Love the poo guide ... that makes it easier to read what she needs :laugh:

Edited July 1, 2014 by Darcy&Zoe

[Esky the husky]

According to one of my reference sites, a chicken wing is about 40% bone, a neck about 30%.

Could you provide the link please? I need something like that

[DeltaCharlie]

According to one of my reference sites, a chicken wing is about 40% bone, a neck about 30%.

You could be right :) I have been feeding raw for so long I don't really think about percentages anymore, just go by instinct and the individual dogs. I was sitting here trying to visualise a chicken neck and chicken wing and see where all the bones were compared to meat :laugh:

[megan_]

.

Edited July 1, 2014 by megan_

[Diva]

According to one of my reference sites, a chicken wing is about 40% bone, a neck about 30%.

Could you provide the link please? I need something like that

I can't find it on this computer, I have it bookmarked somewhere, it was a USDA site but I can't find the right one at the moment. But this isn't bad if you are OK with unreferenced and just want a quick guide

http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet/thread/697247/1 (scroll down)

or this http://dogsdinner2.webs.com/anyoldbone.htm

of course it varies widely depending on what sort of bird you get - some are much meatier than others. So take it as a guide only.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Diva

[Birkat]

I think many of us pay more attention to a balanced diet of their dogs than to eat healthy stuff themselves....... :D

Who agrees?

[gila]

I think many of us pay more attention to a balanced diet of their dogs than to eat healthy stuff themselves....... :D

Who agrees?

Haha yep. I was thinking about that a couple of weekends ago when I went shopping for human grade raw meat for the dog and then stopped by maccas for lunch on the way home

[Darcy&Zoe]

yep far more aware for my dogs than I am for myself

Pleased to say I think I am finally getting my head around this ... thanks to everyone for their comments and advice, I really appreciate it

[MouseR]

This might help with your bone content queries :)

[MouseR]

Also was reading an article today about the dangers of feeding too much bone. Article said that it can throw out the calcium/phosphorus levels and can increase chances of things such as hip dysphasia etc. Not sure if it is all true and can't find the article again to add here but something you could google I suppose :)