Steve Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Hi ! I am new to forums in general..and posting this as I have found myself suddenly knee deep in vet bills. My family and I purchased a pedigree(Kaisterstern) male pup in March( he was born in January), He is a very affectionate pup and boisterous. We did puppy preschool and in the last couple of months noticed a change in his movement. Initially we thought - his rabbit like movement when we first got him was cute puppy behaviour.... At his desexing our vet did xrays and confirmed hip and elbow dysplasia - more so his right elbow and hip. Anyone else who might have purchased from a litter born January17 this year? ( I did try to contact the breeder and email - no response as yet). As he is only a puppy - could it be he is just a goofy pup growing up fast? ( he weighs now 24 kgs; fed on Blackhawke, fresh bones) Thanks for listening! Sim You had him desexed before he was mature, your vet xrayed an immature puppy and declared he's got ed and hd, what a shemozzle all round that one is. Speak to the breeder, which is what you should have done in the first place before you whipped off his nuts and ruined any chance of correct growth and development. 73% higher incidence of HD where male dogs are desexed before maturity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 73% higher incidence of HD where male dogs are desexed before maturity. That's high. Say a young large breed male dog had behavioural issues, could the dog not have had chemical castration? What would happen there, Steve? NB: not meaning this puppy but in general..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 73% higher incidence of HD where male dogs are desexed before maturity. That's high. Say a young large breed male dog had behavioural issues, could the dog not have had chemical castration? What would happen there, Steve? NB: not meaning this puppy but in general..... Training? Sorry no operation is ever going to replace basic training. I don't have large breed dogs, but have Staffords which are very strong willed, stubborn, determined and some are hard wired to be very dominant with other dogs. I have no issues with entire males of any age, let alone young silly teenage ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Say a young large breed male dog had behavioural issues, could the dog not have had chemical castration? What would happen there, Steve? NB: not meaning this puppy but in general..... Were the behaviour problems caused by the dog being entire? Could the problems not be fixed with training? ETA: I am being a bit smart with my comments as I don't believe that desexing is the answer to fixing behaviour problems. I agree with Sandra777. Edited June 27, 2014 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Personally I think the sooner people grasp that testicle removal is not the "magic bullet" for behavioural issues, the better. Sadly, a lot of vets support the notion. A lot of the time the issues aren't with the dog but with how its being managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Personally I think the sooner people grasp that testicle removal is not the "magic bullet" for behavioural issues, the better. Sadly, a lot of vets support the notion. A lot of the time the issues aren't with the dog but with how its being managed. Totally agree HW. I had a vet tell me just last week that desexing stops behaviour problems like the dogs roaming and escaping from their yards. Pretty sure adequate fencing and containment is important for all dogs, wonder what their suggestion would be for desexed dogs that are escape artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 The problem is that most people don't know how to read a journal article critically and correctly. Nor do most people understand the scientific research process. Hence we end up with wild generalisations on the internet. About HD, desexing, behaviour etc. Stuff that's bloody hard to measure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Your pups playmate isn't "Vinnie" is it? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Can someone please link the evidence for the stat that the incidence of HD is 73% higher in dogs that have been desexed early? What about female dogs being desexed early? While not a magic bullet at all desexing CAN make a difference to some behavioural problems and does make a difference to how well dogs are received in situations like dog parks etc which many owners wish to frequent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsd_glenwood Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) I don't know anything about GSD's however I would recommend a second opinion - even better if someone can recommend one who has a good knowledge of your breed. I am also assuming parents were hip and elbow scored? Not that that is a totally guarentee of no issues of course :) Hi! yes we were told the parents were hip and elbow scored and were fine. Maybe they are - I never asked to see proof to that effect... I have now - retrieved his papers, looked up his lineage in the Canine Council registry; I checked the sire - and he came from 0:0 scored stock on the GSD kennel council; however the female bloodline had a 4:2 rating whatever that means. Edited June 27, 2014 by gsd_glenwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsd_glenwood Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 Your pups playmate isn't "Vinnie" is it? :) Lol.. Yes indeed.. he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsd_glenwood Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 Hi there, I'm sorry you have these concerns My 100% working line GSD was diagnosed with severe HD at 10 months of age (by three specialists, one who does pennhip scoring). Cooper had his first Total Hip Replacement and then 5 weeks ago today, had his second one. I should add that he is only 2 1/2 years old. I contacted his breeder asap upon learning this and she was beyond wonderful. She does all possible testing and Cooper certainly has never been over weight. He was just really unlucky. One thing Coopers surgeon mentioned in passing is that if they diagnose around the 6 month mark or earlier than an FHO may be an option (It is half the cost of a THR). Here are Coopers bionic hips post surgery from 5 weeks ago. If I can help in any way, please yell out :) ETA: Cooper (now 2/12) is only 34 kgs so he is not a huge dog to start with but I have always kept him very lean and he is entire. Hi Bianca, WOW - that is amazing.. Thank you for sharing your story and experience with me. Good to hear your positive outcome and helpfulness of your dogs breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) 4.2 is still fine to breed for GSDs. Sometimes even with all the best possible breedings, nutrition, limited exercise etc, bad shit like this happens. Such as what as happened with my boy Edited June 27, 2014 by bianca.a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Teehee we must have been posting at the same time! Thank you, I consider myself lucky that Cooper came to me as I was able to use my lifes savings to 'fix' him! One thing I did was approach different specialists and email them the xrays asking for opinions. My local vet did the first xray which was how he was diagnosed and whilst the positioning was far from brilliant it was enough to email through to get appointments with Ray Ferguson (somebody mentioned him) and Peter Laverty - who did both surgeries. I wish you nothing but good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Are you able to scan and post the xrays you do have? More for interest than anything? I can try and find the first one of Cooper if that helps (it is on my old laptop). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 You will get good advice here, but it could well have been rough playing with Vinnie,he is one hell of a big dog with a very hard playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Environment plays a major part, and doesn't always get the recognition needed when joint problems arise. We won't allow young border collies to spend the day together unsupervised, and selectively run them together during free play sessions with careful monitoring of play style and intensity. I would hate to think of the injuries they would sustain left alone to free run all day, every day. No way in hell would I ever allow 2 large breed dogs to play 24/7. If I were you, I would be getting the dog to a good chiropractor to ensure he is set up to grow the best he can. I would also be limiting the time these 2 pups spend together or you could be in for even more heartache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Yes I would separate them also. Two young full on dogs is a recipe for injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamuzz Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Juice, who / where is your vet clinic - doesn't he do chiro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Quakers Hill vets ,Burdenkin road,yep they do,as they are big Greyhound vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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