gsd_glenwood Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Hi ! I am new to forums in general..and posting this as I have found myself suddenly knee deep in vet bills. My family and I purchased a pedigree(Kaisterstern) male pup in March( he was born in January), He is a very affectionate pup and boisterous. We did puppy preschool and in the last couple of months noticed a change in his movement. Initially we thought - his rabbit like movement when we first got him was cute puppy behaviour.... At his desexing our vet did xrays and confirmed hip and elbow dysplasia - more so his right elbow and hip. Anyone else who might have purchased from a litter born January17 this year? ( I did try to contact the breeder and email - no response as yet). As he is only a puppy - could it be he is just a goofy pup growing up fast? ( he weighs now 24 kgs; fed on Blackhawke, fresh bones) Thanks for listening! Sim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoonyLuna Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Far more experienced people than me will be able to give you some great advice, in the meantime I'd recommend having a read through some of the links here: http://www.gsdcv.org.au/vet_info Particularly the growth disorders and rate of weight gain downloads. From my understanding a GSD pup can look a bit wobbly when going through certain growth periods, but I would have thought it was a bit early yet for a firm diagnosis. Best of luck to you and your pup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 You may wish to contact bianca.a on here, she has been through this with her youngster, I am sure she would be amenable to giving advice :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) one thing i have noticed in recent years, is an increase of many vets and even some so called specialists are very quickly jumping onto the bandwagon of XYZ dog has HD or ED because it is pedigree. I will certainly not dispute that it COULD be on an increase - especially in breeds with known issues. I have also seen quite a bit of soft tissue injury/strain due to the nature of play/environment (particularly in pups or young dogs) be mis diagnosed as HD or ED. When treated for the soft tissue injury, they have come good. It could be a strain/sprain of soft tissue somewhere caused by a puppy being a puppy. If you have not done so already - I would get a second opinion from a good vet Chiro, It may still be HD/ED, but if its not, you may save yourself thousands in vet bills and unnecessary surgery if its only soft tissue and not HD/ED. A couple of operations they can do is to toggle the ball joint to the hip - downside with this op is the toggle can break. The other main option is to remove the femur head altogether and allow the muscle, scar tissue and tendons support the joint. I have been through the second of the above options as one of my dogs jumped out of my husbands car while it was travelling about 60km/hr and badly dislocated her hip, smashing the bottom of the cup. 6 months after the operation, you would not know to see her that she has no joint on that side. Of course there are restrictions, but overall you could not tell. When we had the operation there was a lab in the surgery (old dog) who had both sides done due to HD. Apart from a waddle, again you could not overally tell it had not hip joints. You do need to keep the muscle tone up and weight off. Edit: I had one so called specialist here in Brisbane say a nine month BC had OCD of the shoulder. She had an injury to that shoulder by getting her foot caught between at the top of the gate and post on a 3 foot chainwire fence. She had damaged her ligaments in the front of the shoulder. Because she was pedigree and 9 months - this so called specialist claimed OCD and wanted to operate. Despite me telling them about the injury only a month before. Soft tissue injuries take a long time to heal. I saw a second vet/chiro specialist and he showed me on the same xrays taken at the previous specialist, where he had gotten it wrong. I later found out the original specialist was good at pushing the HD/ED/OCD in pedigree dogs... She was treated for the soft tissue injury. She is now 8 years old and going strong, no limp, no surgery, no OCD. Edited June 25, 2014 by Mystiqview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I don't know anything about GSD's however I would recommend a second opinion - even better if someone can recommend one who has a good knowledge of your breed. I am also assuming parents were hip and elbow scored? Not that that is a totally guarentee of no issues of course :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 That must be a big worry .. A second specialised opinion will help sort things out for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessicaM Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Hi there, I am not very experienced in GSD but have been involved with a friend who breeds and shows for about 5 years. I currently have one of her pups at 9 months old now. Now before you do ANYTHING ALWAYS CONTACT THE BREEDER FIRST!!!! This is very important, a GSD doesn't stop growing and maturing until 18 months old. Depending on how your pup has been raised I do not think it would have Hip Displaysia now. Or elbow in that fact, they are unrelated (as in he has HD so it must have bad elbows too) No do not listen to your vet and definitely do NOT do any surgery... It is all $$$$ with many general vets. As I previously said he is only 5 months old, he is growing and they do go through a lanky stage. Your breeder should have gone through this with you when you bought your pup. GSD are a quick growing dog and do very well with added calcium in their food (cheese, yougurt, sardines) As others have previously said weight can affect and put pressure on them and can make HD a issue, they are a lean working dog and should not be fat. Their ribs should be felt quite easily, Your puppy should avoid jumping on things because this can help tear their ligaments which will issue with HD. Everything I have mentioned here is what my BREEDER told me and what I have done with my GSD. I urge you to get in contact with your breeder and take it from there. If that doesn't happen try calling your state german shepherd club and I am 100% they will be able to offer you advice and help :-) You should post some photos of your little man Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessicaM Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 This is my girl about 6 months old, she weighed about 23kgs but she is heavy boned compared to her litter mate who was 19kgs and is alot smaller and light boned. Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 If you are in Sydney, visit the vet Karen Hedberg at Nth Richmond who is a GSD breeder as well as a vet and is very experienced in growth problems in dogs. She can advise you if you need to see a specialist. It is possible that your puppy has problems but many vets simply do not understand the loose joints that some breeds have as puppies and can come to the wrong conclusion based on the breed of dog. If the vet had been an expert in GSDs or hip dysplasia, they would not have gone ahead with desexing a puppy that young as it will greatly increase the risk of growing joint problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gottalovealab Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Nothing to add re HD and ED but if it ends up being these things, contact the breeder to let them know. If they are a reputable breeder, they would be deeply concerned to see it crop up in their lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightstar123 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I would like to know what exactly the vet saw on the xrays to make a diagnosis of hip and elbow dysplasia. That's where the answer will be. As others have said, hip dysplasia is a developmental disorder, it is not present at birth. Time must elapse for radiographic changes to be evident. PennHIP rads (distracted view) generally allow accurate prediction of dysplasia in dogs as young as 6 months but the standard extended view doesn't, it's recommended that the dog is 24-36mths old for that one. In regards to the diagnosis of elbow dysplasia, it is possible to diagnose some of the structural abnormalities of the bones in the elbow joint from around 150 days of age (approx 5mths). Both ununited anconeal process and fragmented medial coronoid process cause elbow dysplasia and may be seen from around 5mths on, osteochondrosis can be more variable. So the diagnosis of hip dysplasia seems a little questionable, elbow dysplasia is maybe more feasible. An orthopaedic specialist would be able to ensure that the correct imaging has been done and that they have been accurately interpreted, given the dog's age and breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Hi there, I am sorry you have these worries regarding your puppy. I have a 100% working line GSD from a great breeder who does all possible health checks before her breedings. Unfortunately at 10 months of age my Cooper was diagnosed with severe HD. I had three specialists (including one who does pennhip scoring) confirm this. He had his first Total Hip Replacement done and then 5 weeks ago he had his other hip done. It is an awful shock and very expensive. I would recommend you get a specialist opinion as some vets really have no idea of correct positioning. If you have other questions, you are welcome to PM me and I will try to help. This xray is straight after his second THR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Hi there, I'm sorry you have these concerns My 100% working line GSD was diagnosed with severe HD at 10 months of age (by three specialists, one who does pennhip scoring). Cooper had his first Total Hip Replacement and then 5 weeks ago today, had his second one. I should add that he is only 2 1/2 years old. I contacted his breeder asap upon learning this and she was beyond wonderful. She does all possible testing and Cooper certainly has never been over weight. He was just really unlucky. One thing Coopers surgeon mentioned in passing is that if they diagnose around the 6 month mark or earlier than an FHO may be an option (It is half the cost of a THR). Here are Coopers bionic hips post surgery from 5 weeks ago. If I can help in any way, please yell out :) ETA: Cooper (now 2/12) is only 34 kgs so he is not a huge dog to start with but I have always kept him very lean and he is entire. Edited June 25, 2014 by bianca.a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Hi ! I am new to forums in general..and posting this as I have found myself suddenly knee deep in vet bills. My family and I purchased a pedigree(Kaisterstern) male pup in March( he was born in January), He is a very affectionate pup and boisterous. We did puppy preschool and in the last couple of months noticed a change in his movement. Initially we thought - his rabbit like movement when we first got him was cute puppy behaviour.... At his desexing our vet did xrays and confirmed hip and elbow dysplasia - more so his right elbow and hip. Anyone else who might have purchased from a litter born January17 this year? ( I did try to contact the breeder and email - no response as yet). As he is only a puppy - could it be he is just a goofy pup growing up fast? ( he weighs now 24 kgs; fed on Blackhawke, fresh bones) Thanks for listening! Sim You had him desexed before he was mature, your vet xrayed an immature puppy and declared he's got ed and hd, what a shemozzle all round that one is. Speak to the breeder, which is what you should have done in the first place before you whipped off his nuts and ruined any chance of correct growth and development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temperamentfirst Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Go and see Karen Hedberg at North Richmond- take the Xrays, and ask for her opinion - you will get both an experienced vet and a GSD expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Hi ! I am new to forums in general..and posting this as I have found myself suddenly knee deep in vet bills. My family and I purchased a pedigree(Kaisterstern) male pup in March( he was born in January), He is a very affectionate pup and boisterous. We did puppy preschool and in the last couple of months noticed a change in his movement. Initially we thought - his rabbit like movement when we first got him was cute puppy behaviour.... At his desexing our vet did xrays and confirmed hip and elbow dysplasia - more so his right elbow and hip. Anyone else who might have purchased from a litter born January17 this year? ( I did try to contact the breeder and email - no response as yet). As he is only a puppy - could it be he is just a goofy pup growing up fast? ( he weighs now 24 kgs; fed on Blackhawke, fresh bones) Thanks for listening! Sim You had him desexed before he was mature, your vet xrayed an immature puppy and declared he's got ed and hd, what a shemozzle all round that one is. Speak to the breeder, which is what you should have done in the first place before you whipped off his nuts and ruined any chance of correct growth and development. Oh come on... That's far from helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Oh come on... That's far from helpful. Thought there is a school of thought that premature desexing of large breed dogs can be very detrimental to their correct growth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Oh come on... That's far from helpful. I don't disagree at all, but there's ways of making the point that aren't so abrupt. Not everyone is lucky enoigh to have the same knowledge you guys do, and its done now. No use pointing out faults without any advice for moving forward. Thought there is a school of thought that premature desexing of large breed dogs can be very detrimental to their correct growth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freundhund Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 First of all the puppy owner does need a second opinion. Preferably a new vet as it is not recommended to de-sex GSD puppies so early. Unfortunately, X-rays taken as early as 5 months are not conclusive as GSD hips and elbows are still loose at this stage. Meaning that X-rays show a greater degree of subluxation than will show after 12 months of age. As I understand from attending lectures the vast subluxation at an early age is what a lot of vets misunderstand. I would recommend it you are in Sydney to see either Dr Karen Hedburg - North Richmond Vet practice or Dr Robert Zammit - Vinyard Vet Clinic. Both these vets specialise in GSD's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 WIW there are literally a hundred other ways you could have made your point. It wouldn't kill you to exercise some tact, the OP probably feels bad enough already. What if he/she is a first time puppy owner? Re: the x-rays, from my understanding only a specialist is able to make the HD/ED diagnosis and not the vet. I'm another person who can recommend Dr. Karen Hedburg in Sydney. It would be worth it to make an appointment with her to discuss the issue as she might have some better advice and give you insight on what action you need to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now