Your First Show Dog?

[Salukifan]

Starting a new thread here, lest I be accused of raining on a puppy buyer's parade.

So, you've had a purebred dog before, decided this is the breed for you and that the show ring is where you'd like to go next.

If you can't show the dog you have (wrong register or other issues) and you're ready to take the plunge and buy a show prospect, how do you go about it.

In a word? Carefully.

I'm hoping other exhibitors will contribute to this thread and that prospective exhibitors will also contribute but its a roller coaster ride sometimes with show dogs and I'd like to help iron out some of the bumps for people.

Maybe folk can share thoughts about the following issues:

• How do you get to know the breed standard and different lines to figure out what you want
• Breeders - sorting the wheat from the chaff
• How to convince a breeder you are "safe hands" for a show prospect
• What does "show prospect" mean and dealing with pups that don't turn out as well as expected.
• Dealing with disappointment - no litter, no gender you were after, no testicles etc, no pup for you.

Why am I doing this - to stop heartbreak. There are too many new exhibitors IMO sold less than quality pups as show dogs and a lot of ways your plans for your pup can go south through no one's fault. It can be a very challenging endeavour and you should be prepared. You can get very very lucky, but sometimes it runs against you too.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Salukifan]

Here's my suggested first step:

Go to a few dog shows. Sit ringside and watch the showing. Decide whether or not this is something that you are prepared to do for days on end, weekend after weekend.

Sound obvious? Not really. We get people coming to shows with their new pups for the very first time and they've never been before. If you are serious about getting into it, I'd say you're probably looking at about 2 weekends a month to get you and your pup up to speed.

If you only want to "play" at showing? Go for your life. But if you are serious, that's the commitment you are looking at.

[Salukifan]

Next step:

Download a copy of the breed standard (extended one if available). Read it. Learn particularly about what are major faults and disqualifying faults. Go to a specialty if you can and buy a catalogue. Note the names of the dogs YOU like the look of so that you can learn more about who bred them and what their pedigrees are. This is the first step in figuring out who you want to look at to buy a pup.

It's not how I started. I'd have bought a show prospect from just about anyone. I was lucky that I got steered in a good direction. But now? I look to pedigrees.

[Sandra777]

Never buy a puppy as a "show dog" from someone who doesn't show themselves AND who cannot provide lots of evidence of multiple dogs of their breeding doing very well at multiple shows over a number of years.

Yes - there certainly are some breeders out there who produce great dogs but can't be bothered with the nonsense - but they sell to people who do show.

Selling one dog to one person who won one class with it at one show does not qualify!

The huge majority of people who breed but don't show do not know what is required in a "show quality" puppy.

That's the second big give-away too of course - no one who knows their onions will sell a "show quality" puppy, it's purely potential.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Sandra777

[Salukifan]

Never buy a puppy as a "show dog" from someone who doesn't show themselves AND who cannot provide lots of evidence of multiple dogs of their breeding doing very well at multiple shows over a number of years.

I'd also never buy a pup from someone who tells you that every pup in the litter is show quality. It does happen but not often.

Take the pup an experienced breeder/exhibitor tells you is the one. Personally I'd not go lower than second pick dog or bitch.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

How do you get to know the breed standard and different lines to figure out what you want

I think you need to be guided in the early stages and guidance that is impartial is hard to come by from within the breed. If you can find someone very experienced from outside the breed to make a few suggestions, that can be helpful. It also depends somewhat on whether you just want to win and have no interest in breeding, or whether you have caught the "bug" for your breed and what to be a part of its future. The dogs you would purchase for both those aims are not necessarily the same dogs.

Have a look for breeders where the dogs win big with other people, not just with the breeders holding the lead.

Breeders - sorting the wheat from the chaff

Eliminate anyone who bitches to you about other breeders. If they are prepared to do that, they are also prepared to bitch and whine about you, and that's not a step very far away from doing you over in ways large or small. Someone who is quite confident in the quality of their dogs doesn't need to put other breeders down. By confidence I don't mean being kennel blind, kennel blindness often goes with putting others down anyway. Make sure you are up for the relationship they want. It may be that they want you to consult them over where the dog takes a crap each day, expect you to go to particular shows no matter what is going on in your life, etc - or - at the other extreme, you might never hear from them, send them an email about winning the dog's first group only to get no response but notice that the result has gone up in the pointscore anyway.

There are advantages and disadvantages to joining a large well established local "team" or going your own way with a dog from a breeder who is geographically quite distant. Talk to people in both situations about their choices and decide what suits your personality best.

How to convince a breeder you are "safe hands" for a show prospect

You can only try and demonstrate to them that you are less risky than most. Don't make promises you're not sure you can keep. No-one can guarantee that they are a totally safe pair of hands, but with baby steps you can show that you are the kind of person who will do the right things by your dogs. What each breeder considers "safe" varies too. Some will put welfare above any other consideration. Others will put dutifully trekking to shows at the top of their list. Find out what is important to the breeder, and work with it. The steadier you are, the better. People who flip from one option to another on a whim don't give the impression "I want one of your dogs, and I'm prepared to put in some effort to get one".

What does "show prospect" mean and dealing with pups that don't turn out as well as expected.

A show prospect is just a promising puppy.

Often people give up far too soon. With late maturing dogs, it can sometimes not be until they are 5 or 6 when they really hit their stride and start winning the bigtime. So my advice would be, providing there isn't a deal breaker like a bad mouth or a sucked up testicle, be patient if you have a slow maturing breed. Work at your presentation and handling and grooming. Don't get uptight when you're beaten by someone who has 30 years on you, watch them carefully instead.

Dealing with disappointment - no litter, no gender you were after, no testicles etc, no pup for you.

This is where I get cheesy. Invariably when I have hit a disappointment like that, it meant that something better was just around the corner. When plan A fails, move to plan B.

Edited to fix formatting...

Edited June 23, 2014 by SkySoaringMagpie

[kelpiecuddles]

Given I presume this was prompted by discussions in my thread I'll share what i have already done as it may help others.

How do you get to know the breed standard and different lines to figure out what you want

I have tracked down various resources that break the breed standard down and examine the different parts of the standard, what those parts mean in relation to the dog as a whole and why they are important to the structure and purpose of the dog. My first dog was well researched and I have been extremely pleased with her health as a result. This time the pup will be more than a pet, it will be a working animal as well so I have specifically researched lines that tend towards the more athletic end of the standard. I have also enjoyed a number of discussions with the breeder I have chosen regarding different aspects of the breed to better understand.

Breeders - sorting the wheat from the chaff

Over the past 7 years I've 'followed' a number of breeders looking at where they were going with their dogs and their breeding and narrowing it down to those who i felt were operating in a way that meshed with my needs in a future pup and who I felt would also be supportive and helpful to me as someone moving further in to the breed.

.

How to convince a breeder you are "safe hands" for a show prospect

I have been talking to this breeder for well over 12 months already and following the progress of their dogs. Ultimately I would hope that he has seen my commitment to the breed in the discussions we have had. In the end I haven't actively requested a pup but he has asked me if I would be interested if the litter works out as planned.

What does "show prospect" mean and dealing with pups that don't turn out as well as expected.

Well obviously show prospect means just that prospect only. As said though this will be a working pet so while I will show it won't matter if for some reason I can't (and if for some reason he couldn't work then he'd just be a loved pet)

Dealing with disappointment - no litter, no gender you were after, no testicles etc, no pup for you

In my case patience is a virtue, i know what i want and as I said I haven't actively sought out to ask this breeder for a pup but have been offered one, if one isn't available to us this time then it will be next time or the time after that. If you want something very specific then you have to be willing to wait.

Edited June 23, 2014 by kelpiecuddles

[Gottalovealab]

I think time is a huge factor in showing you are a prospect for a show dog. Getting to know people around the breed of your choice and just giving your time to go to shows, just to watch them, shows you are enthusiastic about the whole thing. This also gives you time to develop a little bit of an eye of what you like to see in your breed, especially if you are looking at dog profiles/different types already.

Be prepared to wait!! You don't get a pup overnight. Besides, this gives you more time to understand your breed and the confusing sport that is dog shows :laugh:

As myself as an example, I don't show anymore (haven't the time or money for it at the moment) and haven't been to a show in quite a while, but I have made great friends with most of the lab people in my state ( and some interstate as well). I know that when I eventually go back to it, I won't have trouble with purchasing a prospect. Its the time I took to show I was enthusiastic about the breed that allowed me to in the first place.

[RuralPug]

I agree with all of the above advice, and the only thing I wish to elaborate on further is the level of commitment needed if you are serious about getting a quality puppy.

Learn as much as you can about dog confirmation and movement in general and how the basic ratios etc apply to your breed. Learn the breed standard by heart but be prepared for a lifetime of learning to interpret some of them!! Be prepared to learn from those willing to share knowledge (this may not always be a person in your chosen breed). Be prepared to unlearn it all and see it in a new light after a concentrated span of time.

Breeders are not necessarily going to place their best show prospect in a litter in a home that hasn't established a commitment to showing as well as being an excellent home. So you will need to demonstrate a commitment to showing - the best way to do this is to turn up regularly at dog shows two or three times a month for six months or more. Some will suggest this is overkill - but if you want to demonstrate that you are someone who will make all the effort to strut someone's bloodlines in the ring, you will have to make the effort.

Talk to breeders in your chosen breed and use the advice above to sort the wheat from the chaff to start with.

Take that six months to understand dog showing as a hobby - ask to visit breeders and if they can teach you ringcraft. (Attending ring training handling classes (even without a dog)if you are city-based and have access to them, is another excellent alternative.)

Another sign of commitment is to join your stater ANKC affiliate even before you approach breeders for a puppy. I'm not sure about all states, but certainly in some you cannot even help someone else by handling one of their extra dogs in the ring unless you are a financial member.

[espinay2]

How do you get to know the breed standard and different lines to figure out what you want

REalise that in the beginning you may read and read the standard, and may even learn the words by heart, that there is a difference between learning the standard and 'knowing' the standard. Truly 'knowing' the standard comes with time and is as much about understanding the history and why things were included as about the words themselves. So always trying to learn learn learn about your breed and its history will be helpful. A lot of what you will learn will come from getting involved and talking and listening to long time breeders and owners. Even if you haven't got a show prospect yet, getting as involved as you can will be a big help. You will along the way work out what you like and don't like. Be aware though that as you gain more knowledge, your initial ideas may change. So always be prepared to be flexible and even prepared to 'start again' down the track if you feel the direction you started in is not the one you wish to pursue.

Breeders - sorting the wheat from the chaff

It can take time to work this out. It can come down to you gravitating to those people who share your ideals or whose vision you appreciate.

.

How to convince a breeder you are "safe hands" for a show prospect

Get to know them. Even a breeder who initially says they 'dont sell dogs on main' etc etc may decide you are a good risk with time. YOu need to develop the relationship first. HEre I would also recommend that you don't automatically dismiss co-ownership. In some cases it may be the only way you get to own a good dog for breeding/showing in the beginning. There is a lot that can be discussed on this issue, but my personal experience is that I potentially missed out on some very good opportunities early on by not wanting to co own and when I later understood the issues a bit better and did co own, it was some of the best decisions I ever made. But again the relationship with the breeder MUST be good and you MUST be willing to work to maintain that good relationship. Also be prepared to get a male as your first show dog. It is often a lot easier to get a nice male than a female. And showing a male can be a good way to show your commitment, get you 'in' and also gain your more trust if you want to eventually get a bitch.

What does "show prospect" mean and dealing with pups that don't turn out as well as expected

A show prospect means that it has potential to be shown. But it may not turn out - breeders dont have crystal balls and even ones they keep themselves sometimes don't turn out as hoped. Best advice I can give is to have planned what you will do if the pup doesnt turn out as being suitable for the show ring. Are you happy to keep it as a pet and try again at some point with another dog? Will you return the dog to the breeder or ask assistance to rehome it in a pet only home? If you want a guarantee that a dog will be show worthy, my recommendation is to try and buy an adult that is a more 'finished product' growth-wise. This won't be easy, or likely cheap, but it depends on what your priorities are.

Dealing with disappointment - no litter, no gender you were after, no testicles etc, no pup for you

Patience is an absolute must. I have waited several years before a breeder had a suitable pup for me. Work out what your priorities are. Sometimes it can be very worth the wait. I have been impatient in the past too, and while I adored the dog beyond life, in other ways (show/breeding) it was not a good decision and did put back my plans significantly.

Edited June 25, 2014 by espinay2

[ahmadi]

Never buy a puppy as a "show dog" from someone who doesn't show themselves AND who cannot provide lots of evidence of multiple dogs of their breeding doing very well at multiple shows over a number of years.

I'd also never buy a pup from someone who tells you that every pup in the litter is show quality. It does happen but not often.

Take the pup an experienced breeder/exhibitor tells you is the one. Personally I'd not go lower than second pick dog or bitch.

I don't agree with not buying lower than second pick. It is a very broad statement to make. 3rd or 4th pick in a litter of great quality is better than 1st pick in a very ordinary litter