My Dog Doesn't Like Large Fluffy Dogs

[aliwake]

So, my 16month old lab, Nixon, is generally extremely good natured, and enjoys playing with other dogs of all shapes and sizes. We regularly go to an off lead park which he LOVES - it is quite small with a friendly group of regulars (dogs and humans). Recently there have been a couple of occasions where he has met a new dog and 'taken against it' even before it enters the park. When they come in - he will bark loudly and constantly in their face. His tail is wagging, but the bark is extremely full on - I know I'm not ok with it and I'm pretty sure the other dogs aren't. On both recent occasions the dogs have been larger fluffy dogs - 1 was a finnish lapphund, and the other was a samoyed.

I guess I have 2 questions - firstly, why??!! What is his likely motivation? My only guess so far is that he didn't really meet any dogs that fluffy when he was younger, so now he's a bit freaked out and can't read their body language properly?

Secondly, what should I be doing to either help him get over it, or to correct the behaviour.

Currently, when he starts I will grab his collar and separate him, and force him into a sit for a minute until he calms down. On some occasions this will be enough and he'll settle down to a bearable level, and even go on the sniff the dog, then usually ignore them. But, the next time we see this dog we're back to square one.

He is desexed.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I think you might need to work with a dog like this, give him a lot more exposure to the dog (maybe over a few hours) and correct him when he misbehaves. Sounds like the fluffers are a novelty but his response is inappropriate.

You might need a behaviouralist's help and/or the help of an owner with a tolerant fluffer.

[aliwake]

I agree increased exposure might help. We see the finnish lapphund most often, but she seems a little timid, so I don't think she's the best one to practice on.

If anyone has a bulletproof, friendly fluffy in western Brisbane that would be willing to try a playdate, please let me know!

Maybe I'll talk to the lady we did his obedience training with, and find out if any of her clients might have a dog with the right sort of temperament to take his crap while he's learning to adjust...

[Bjelkier]

I think you might need to work with a dog like this, give him a lot more exposure to the dog (maybe over a few hours) and correct him when he misbehaves. Sounds like the fluffers are a novelty but his response is inappropriate.

You might need a behaviouralist's help and/or the help of an owner with a tolerant fluffer.

I second this.

As a samoyed owner I can assure you this happens a fair bit. The erect ears, tail, heavy ruff and upright stance can confuse the hell out of other dogs.

[aliwake]

I think you might need to work with a dog like this, give him a lot more exposure to the dog (maybe over a few hours) and correct him when he misbehaves. Sounds like the fluffers are a novelty but his response is inappropriate.

You might need a behaviouralist's help and/or the help of an owner with a tolerant fluffer.

I second this.

As a samoyed owner I can assure you this happens a fair bit. The erect ears, tail, heavy ruff and upright stance can confuse the hell out of other dogs.

That's good to hear from someone who would know! it was what I suspected, that's he's very confused by the different body language/characteristics.

As an innately social dog I think(hope) he will improve with more exposure to these breeds.

[tdierikx]

A lot of dogs have problems reading spitz breeds' body language...

T.

[Bjelkier]

I think you might need to work with a dog like this, give him a lot more exposure to the dog (maybe over a few hours) and correct him when he misbehaves. Sounds like the fluffers are a novelty but his response is inappropriate.

You might need a behaviouralist's help and/or the help of an owner with a tolerant fluffer.

I second this.

As a samoyed owner I can assure you this happens a fair bit. The erect ears, tail, heavy ruff and upright stance can confuse the hell out of other dogs.

That's good to hear from someone who would know! it was what I suspected, that's he's very confused by the different body language/characteristics.

As an innately social dog I think(hope) he will improve with more exposure to these breeds.

Hopefully he will. We've had good success with a few different breeds who have found the Samoyeds confusing in the beginning after careful socialisation. We say they now speak fluent 'russian' :laugh:

[Simply Grand]

I'd workon building a positive association with the fluffers rather than punishing his unsure reaction. You can use the ones you see at the park then, just start off at a big distance from them. Call him to get his attention back on you the instant he spots the fluffy, before he has a chance to get worked up, and shove a treat in his mouth. Wait till he glances back at the fluffy then repeat, repeat, repeat. Gradually move closer, keeping him under his arousal threshold, and you can also gradually increase the time he has to look at the other dog or br calm in its vicinity before he gets the treat. If you find you've gone a bit too fast and he starts to react, immediately move him calmly away until you have enough distance for him to settle again.

Given that you say he's generally a social boy and he is able to eventually calm down around fluffies already I reckon you'd have pretty quick progress and probably only need a few sessions before he gets over the hurdle of that initial reaction :)

[aliwake]

that sounds like a really good strategy simply grand - though I usually avoid taking treats to the park as it makes me VERY popular. There aren't as many dogs around during winter though, so I might be able to pull it off.

Thanks for all the positive responses everyone - I appreciate it! Hopefully he'll pick up some 'russian' asap! :)

[raineth]

Also, don't forget that a wagging tail is really just a sign of arousal, in a case where it is also accompanied by the sort of barking you describe, is not a sign of friendliness :)

Maybe you could google "Look at that"/ It becomes a game and can be used whenever something is troubling your dog :)

[Yonjuro]

I can relate to this being a Husky owner, some dogs seem to get a bit nervous around my boy, luckily Ronin is very playful despite being attacked at a dog park twice when he was on-lead. Luckily we have a fence in area at a park where they can run around and they quickly sort themselves out.

In my experience it is a few owners (not the OP or others here) that freak out more at dogs like mine than the actual dogs, as huskies display many of the signs that others would read as aggressive - ears, tails and quite a lot of vocalisation and energy.

My apologies for this ramble as it doesn't really help with the actual topic. If Aliwake was in my region, Ronin and I would love to meet up with you both :)

[aliwake]

Thanks raineth - I was wondering about the tail. Very very good to know! It seemed like conflicting signals to me but I know I'm not particularly knowledgeable. Could the tail wagging be trying to match the upright tail of the other dog too?

That's really nice of you to offer a play date Yonjuro! He's actually fine around huskies, so they'd probably have a ball together :)

[Yonjuro]

Based on what you have said Aliwake, I would say you are already on the road to sorting this out. The more controlled exposure the better. If there are any big fluffys that walk on-lead it would be great if you can do the same - side by side but a couple of metres apart, then bring in to a metre and eventually allow them to be as close as they want. Obviously this takes co-operation from the other owner, but in my limited experience many spitz owner are only too happy to help with this sort of socialisation as it is mutually beneficial.

I had to laugh when speaking Russian was mentioned earlier as we use Russian for lots of commands, my wife is Russian and my daughter speaks the language too, so I suppose Ronin literally understands Russian :D errm, but being a Husky he is quite multicultural in ignoring both languages when he wants to :laugh:

[JulesP]

How do you go with border collies Allwake? I have heaps of trouble with blacks labs wanting to eat my girls!

[Salukifan]

If "doesn't like" may translate to "may react aggressively towards", I'd counsel against using other people's large fluffy dogs as lab rats in your socialisation exercises UNLESS you do so under qualifed supervision.

In such circumstances, the LAST dog your dog needs to meet is a very friendly fluffy - a non-reactive dog is a far better bet.

[aliwake]

I think it's more uncertainty than aggression at this stage, but I will certainly keep it in mind. I think he would respond well to friendly overtures, but the dogs we've met so far have been more timid or aloof than wanting to play.

He's fine with border collies Jules - we have one across the road that he's seen from a young age, so I think he's pretty comfortable with them. It's a pity you've had dramas with labs though! I just wish he'd met some more spitz breeds when he was younger, but we haven't come across any til recently.

[hankdog]

The tail wag is an "I want to interact" signal, not necessarily I want to be friends. There's a saying "Pavlov is always on your shoulder" whatever you think you're teaching your dog he is going to be associating a collar grab and harsh words with a fluffy dog.

Rather call him to you when you see the dog and give him a reward for positive calm behaviour. Can be a treat it tug or ball.

Having owned a large fluffy, bat eared dog it seems they do attract unwanted attention from other dogs.

[megan_]

I think you might need to work with a dog like this, give him a lot more exposure to the dog (maybe over a few hours) and correct him when he misbehaves. Sounds like the fluffers are a novelty but his response is inappropriate.

You might need a behaviouralist's help and/or the help of an owner with a tolerant fluffer.

Please don't do this. He may actually be scared and correcting him is just reinforcing that fluffy dogs lead to bad things. Don't mess around - see a behaviourist. Someone reputable like Steve from k9pro or cosmolo (I'm naming them because I've dealt with them before).

Exposing your dog to them more and more until you know what is happening can make things MUCH worse. In the interim, avoid exposing him to fluffy dogs. This might mean less time at the dog park until this is sorted.

ETA: whether it is aggression or not won't make a difference to the dog on the receiving end - it is rude and they might want to put him in his place . There are also many types of aggression - including fear aggression. As hank dog said tail wag doesn't mean friendly. In fact, a stiff erect tail wag can mean the exact opposite in many breeds.

Edited June 20, 2014 by megan_

[ESCS]

As you're in Brisbane, I would also recommend Jane Harper. We live in Brisbane West and she was happy to come out to us. She did a great job with us and one of our tibbies who is quite reactive with other dogs. She did bring a therapy dog with her but it was a greyhound not big fluffy dog.

One of our tibbies is as calm and steady as they come (very different from our other one) . She just turns her back on over excited dogs and ignores them until they are calm. She is small so I never put her in a situation where she is at risk. We'd be happy to go for a walk with you if that helps but being a tibbie, she is fluffy but not big! Very different to spitz breeds so she may be of no help. I agree with Megan's suggestion of professional help.

[dancinbcs]

It is a very common and normal response of many dogs when they see one with erect ears, tail up and to their eyes, hackles up as well. The first time one of mine reacted that way I was surprised but the owner of the Keeshond he reacted to wasn't. She said it happened all the time. We simply stood the dogs near each other facing us in show stands and used treats to settle them, then let them meet again and all was fine. If your dog is more uncertain than aggressive and you have friends with easy going Spitz breeds who can help, I would be more inclined to take him for an on lead walk with them so they are both facing the same way, not in a head on confrontation, use treats to make him realise being around these dogs is a good thing and do not reprimand for any reaction, just remove him from the situation. Also if there is a Spitz breed handy who will drop next to him that would help with him working out the body language as well. If this doesn't reassure him pretty much straight away, then you need an expert.

Dogs can be very wary of breeds they don't understand. I had one of mine as a puppy at a show with both his parents, walking them together when the puppy suddenly nipped at a smooth coated dog before hiding behind his parents. He didn't connect thankfully and then I realised he had never seen a smooth coated dog before. He had met lots of dogs and was fine with them but they were all coated breeds. The sudden appearance of the smooth coat in front of him spooked him as he didn't know what it was. He got over it as he started to see them all the time at shows.