Medication For Anxiety

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

The poor little soul is terrified NOT dominant. He should not be expected not to be terrified of large dogs - they shouldn't come over OR he should be put away somewhere he feels secure.

I'm concerned that he's being punished and misunderstood for being normal!!

He's not being punished OR misunderstood.

My dad's shepherd is incredibly tame and gentle and doesn't go anywhere near him, and my brother's shepherd (only a puppy) is only interested in playing with my collie.

Keep in mind you're only getting snap shots of a FEW experiences, not the whole story - we're incredibly good to him especially how he reacts to us AT TIMES.

I asked for advice and thoughts on medication, not for judgements from someone who clearly has no idea of the whole story.

I'm diagnosing based on years of experience with hundreds of foster dogs, in my own home and other people's (I've run a foster program for 50 carers with new dogs coming in all the time).

You've described certain behaviours and situations - that is what I'm basing my opinions on - you are the one providing me with enough information to form an opinion.

You've got this dog all wrong - whether it's advice from the wrong kind of "expert" or just something you've picked up along the way I don't know but it's wrong.

Sorry that it is not want you want to hear. I do advocate medication for anxiety but I also advocate dealing with issues in the right way ie training, good behaviouralists and so on.

There is one group that charge people heaps of money and give them all the same advice about dominance.

Just like people, not all dogs are the same.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Her Majesty Dogmad

[Salukifan]

I guess it just makes it a bit difficult when both dogs eat differently for the majority of the time (they get fed separately though unless it's just dry food). I do appreciate seeing that it is not necessarily dominance though.

Why? Feed separately regardless of what is on the menu and you'll soon have one issue sorted.

I feed six dogs every day. No dog is allowed to go near another's bowl. The one who cannot resist pushing that is fed in a crate because he finishes first and wants to hassle the others. Not allowed. All dogs get to eat what is theirs (and only theirs) in peace.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I guess it just makes it a bit difficult when both dogs eat differently for the majority of the time (they get fed separately though unless it's just dry food). I do appreciate seeing that it is not necessarily dominance though.

Why? Feed separately regardless of what is on the menu and you'll soon have one issue sorted.

I feed six dogs every day. No dog is allowed to go near another's bowl. The one who cannot resist pushing that is fed in a crate because he finishes first and wants to hassle the others. Not allowed. All dogs get to eat what is theirs (and only theirs) in piece.

Same here, the pack are completely controlled at meal times or there will be trouble. Wouldn't matter if I had 2, 4 or 6 - same deal.

I stand over my terrier because he goes to get others' food but still guards his own so he cannot be left unsupervised.

[The Spotted Devil]

Even my cats are fed separately. And away from the dogs!

[Miss Daisy]

My dog doesn't eat all her dry food at once so that's the only time that they are fed together. Anything else and I feed my dog inside. It's not exactly practical for us to feed the dogs separately all the time, they only get breakfast together and that's just dry food for my dog.

[Salukifan]

My dog doesn't eat all her dry food at once so that's the only time that they are fed together. Anything else and I feed my dog inside. It's not exactly practical for us to feed the dogs separately all the time, they only get breakfast together and that's just dry food for my dog.

Why do they need to have breakfast together - what's the practical issue that prevents you from separating them?

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Miss Daisy, any behaviouralist will advise that if a dog doesn't eat it's food then pick the bowl up - especially important in multiple dog households.

Readign your post, I'm not sure that you really want to make any changes? If you can't separate them for 5 minutes because it's too hard, I don't know what to suggest.

One other point - if you leave your other dog's food down all day, I'm not sure if you'd necessarily spot any very subtle signs of guarding that food.

With my terrier, it is extremely subtle - other people don't notice but I have enough knowledge of body language to see when it's starting (for instance if I pick up the phone during dinner and become slightly distracted). If it isn't stopped it can end in a scrap.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Her Majesty Dogmad

[Simply Grand]

Miss Daisy, as you said, there are more issues than just the food resource guarding going on here, so while it is very important to manage that carefully (fights over valuable resources can become VERY serious, very fast) I really, really recommend you book an assessment with a good behaviourist who can actually see the whole picture in person.

You could try to find a reputable veterinary behaviourist who could prescribe medication if they felt it would help, or work with a behaviourist in conjunction with your own vet.

If you let us know the area you are located in someone could probably make a recommendation :)

[Miss Daisy]

Like I said it's only for breakfast and I know it's not ideal but I'm a shift worker living with my frail grandparents - I can't and won't expect them to be able to feed my dog all the time. And her food doesn't get left out all day and no it's not too hard to separate them.

I also don't think you don't understand that this post is about my aunty's dog, not mine and therefore whatever she decides to so is HER choice. I'm merely trying to get feedback.

Some feedback has been helpful but I don't appreciate your additional comments on the way my family and I interact with our dogs. I appreciate your post on meds for your dog but other than that I'm finding your posts completely unhelpful. We are not perfect with our dogs and I get that, we don't have a ridiculous amount of years etc etc hence why I'm asking for help not judgements.

[Miss Daisy]

Miss Daisy, as you said, there are more issues than just the food resource guarding going on here, so while it is very important to manage that carefully (fights over valuable resources can become VERY serious, very fast) I really, really recommend you book an assessment with a good behaviourist who can actually see the whole picture in person.

You could try to find a reputable veterinary behaviourist who could prescribe medication if they felt it would help, or work with a behaviourist in conjunction with your own vet.

If you let us know the area you are located in someone could probably make a recommendation :)

Definitely a lot of work needs to be done! I'm located in Northern Sydney if anyone has any recommendations I would appreciate it!

[Simply Grand]

You may find though that once an expert can figure out what's motivating her problem behaviours and can explain them, it quickly becomes much easier for you guys to see how to help her. We don't know what we don't know, and I've experienced it myself, someone says why don't you try this instead and it works and you think "why didn't I think of that?".

Afraid I don't have a recommendation myself but hopefully someone will come in with one :)

Edited June 18, 2014 by Simply Grand

[CountryGirl]

I would opt for a decent behaviourist before embarking on medication. The experts can help you and your family understand what your dog's behaviour means (and in this case I mean your aunt's dog...not your own dog). I have three dogs; they are not perfect by any means but I know the difference between fear and dominance. I have just lost one of my old dogs and she was dominant. Another of mine is very fearful of just about everything. She growls and will bite if the growls aren't heeded. I'm working on this and it's a slow and steady process with lots of backward steps. We've had a few major changes in the last year so I guess she's struggling to keep up at times, and even my vet said she would do well as an only dog BUT given the upheaval she's already gone through (I'm her third home in four years), I'm determined not to give up on her.

As for meal times, just feed the dogs separately. Get a baby gate if you need to - put one dog outside and the other inside - shut one in an escape-proof area - lots of ways to keep a dog from getting to another dog's bowl. This poor little bugger is stressed to the max because he feels constantly threatened and guards the little he has and steals whenever he can because he's feeling so low in the pack order...it's no way for any dog to live.

[keetamouse]

Yes, when he is walked he is not walked near people and he wears a muzzle when he's out (and at the vet).

I'm assuming it's anxiety because he gets really scared of other dogs in the family (except my collie that lives with him, he is fine with her) especially the shepherds if they go near him. He hides whenever they come over. He is very dominant and I know a lot of his behaviour comes from that. Due to his behaviour he doesn't go out often because it's so dangerous and I guess that just makes the problem bigger (he's also really resistant to go out for a walk some times).

He hasn't attacked someone as bad as he has tonight with me (and there wasn't really a trigger, he was chewing on a tissue near where I was playing with my dog). But my aunty is going to take him to the vet.

You don't mention the type of muzzle the dog has on when walking and at the vets, this is the one I hope the dog has when walking and not the cloth one as they can't breath with the cloth one.

Edited June 18, 2014 by keetamouse

[Aidan3]

A dog that might reasonably be described as "dominant" would not display any of these behaviours and I would steer clear of any trainer or behaviourist who described her as such.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with medicating an anxious dog and I wouldn't say it was a last resort either. It won't magically solve your aunt's dog's issues but it will make them easier to manage and to modify.

Dogs don't all respond in the same way to medication, but if you take a population of anxious dogs and medicate half of them, the medicated half will display significantly fewer anxious behaviours than the unmedicated group.

The best advice that you will receive on this will be from a veterinary behaviourist.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I think in this case it would be essential to see the dog in it's own home in typical situations where it behaves in a way the owners think is dominant.

But not Barkbusters.

[Animal House]

I think a behaviourist that can come out and see what's happening, observe the pack etc will be a great help.

Steve Courtney at K9 Pro would be my recommendation. http://k9pro.com.au/services/contact/

There is also SABS (Sydney Animal Behavioural Services). http://www.sabs.com.au/

Sometimes what appears to be dominance is actually fear based, I know that was the case with my own dog....she has a number of behaviours that were observed (by a lovely beaviourist) and solutions were given that I follow to this day 3 years later.

Edited June 18, 2014 by **Caz**

[Badbee]

I think a behaviourist that can come out and see what's happening, observe the pack etc will be a great help.

Steve Courtney at K9 Pro would be my recommendation. http://k9pro.com.au/services/contact/

There is also SABS (Sydney Animal Behavioural Services). http://www.sabs.com.au/

Sometimes what appears to be dominance is actually fear based, I know that was the case with my own dog....she has a number of behaviours that were observed (by a lovely beaviourist) and solutions were given that I follow to this day 3 years later.

I am taking my dog to see Steve Courtney today, I have also sent you a private message.

Birgit

[persephone]

A dog that might reasonably be described as "dominant" would not display any of these behaviours and I would steer clear of any trainer or behaviourist who described her as such.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with medicating an anxious dog and I wouldn't say it was a last resort either. It won't magically solve your aunt's dog's issues but it will make them easier to manage and to modify.

Dogs don't all respond in the same way to medication, but if you take a population of anxious dogs and medicate half of them, the medicated half will display significantly fewer anxious behaviours than the unmedicated group.

The best advice that you will receive on this will be from a veterinary behaviourist.

agreed.

[persephone]

Miss Daisy -

Finding a reputable and knowledgable professional to work with you is essential here ....

Seeking professional advice this way is a bit like going to a doctor .

Say you have a niggling pain, perhaps..one which flares up badly on occasion .You have tried Aunty Sue's remedy ..and several of your own - some which made it worse .

The doctor will do an assessment ...and maybe some tests - then explain to you exactly where that pain is coming from ....why it feels like it does, and why on those occasions it gets bad.

They will then help work out a management plan ...teaching YOU how to live with this pain , and change how it affects you ...

(IDEAL WORLD scenario here ;) )

[Christina]

Putting it quite simply some dogs are a bit nuts & you may never know why because they can't speak. If they could they may not know why either. May be genetic.

Experts, behaviourists, vets & anyone else can only be guided by what they have learned,experienced & what they personally believe in & that can be so variable.

The only way to find out if medication works is to try it. It may not make the dog feel better but may make it dopey & more manageable.

My personal experience for 16 years with an aggressive & unpredictable small dog( my daughters ) in the past was to not walk him near others, put him away when we had visitors, feed him alone, let the vet muzzle him when needed & sometimes we gave him tranquil paste if he was going through a bad phase. Have to say that sometimes the dog was fine then he could just turn funny & snarl, curl his lips or bite & we tried & couldn't find any trigger, connection or cause despite trying. He never bit me the boss but was tempted a few times. He was fine with the other dogs in the household.

Have to say despite being well loved if he had been my dog I think I would have PTS. Sometimes you can't fix it you can only manage it as best you can. Easier & somewhat less risky with a small dog than a big one though not nice.