Simply Grand Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Hi all, just after some advice on describing colouring. This is for dogs of mixed or unknown breed where we're relying somewhat on physical descriptions to identify them. We get a fair number of dogs with this kind of colouring: Ref: http://www.ultimatepitbullforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1122 What would be the most appropriate term for this colouring? It's not really just tan or red or fawn because of the black overlay and widow's peak, and although it looks like what is called shaded sable on my Sheltie, it isn't actually as sable refers to the change in colour through individual hair strands (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). And obviously Black and Tan means something else (Rottie type colouring). Google indicates that it could be called tan/red "smut". Would this be appropriate to use on an unknown origin short coated dog? I'd like to be as accurate as possible and don't want to offend anyone by using the wrong terminology on info about these dogs (especially when the word "smut" may not be taken positively ). Another pic below from the same website. Thanks for any thoughts :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Are the individual hairs tipped with dark colour? (the puppy looks that way) Sable with tan and white? Edited June 17, 2014 by LisaCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 If you pull a fur and it's tipped with black it's sable, but if it's sort a muddy version of the base colour rather than layered it's smut. That's my understanding anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Hmm, those are random Internet pics so maybe not the best examples, but no generally there are tan hairs and separate black hairs, and usually some white hair patches as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Found this: Smut or dusting (in Bullmastiffs) is when the base coat fawn or red has black fur laced through its coat usually on the face and chest, it happens regually in this breed but is not desirable as the colour is to be pure. The dogs look as if they have rolled in a coal pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 This is a great website on coat colour genetics I would describe that dog as red tipped sable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) I'd call the pup tricolour/sable and the adult red/white. Edited June 17, 2014 by Dame Aussie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 This is a great website on coat colour genetics That's a great website. O/T but I also liked the link to the Facebook page with the collection of vintage dog photographs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochmad Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) This is a great website on coat colour genetics OT - what a great website! Especially as it has two lovely Fields. :D Edited June 17, 2014 by poochmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 This is a great website on coat colour genetics OT - what a great website! Especially as it has two lovely Fields. :D I love that website too. I've embarrassingly spent hours reading every single page of it at ridiculous hours of the morning. The vintage dog photo Facebook page is good too :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 It is a good website, thanks HW :) So from what I gather, genetically they are most likely sable, or possibly agouti. Most of the examples are in long haired breeds though, does the terminology still apply to short coated breeds/mixes, most likely with some bull breed in them (based on appearances)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Personally i would keep it simple ,For most joe public that is tan .start getting fancy & it becomes even more confusing & beyond the simple aspect it should be . When we board dogs alot rescue i often wonder if they had a "think" party on describing some things to make it sound fancier but what they often describe isn't suited to the dog or if the dog was lost something people would associate with. When describing colours in pure breeds in has meaning & easy to associate with that breed . You could say shaded red which is used to describe the dachie with black . Agouti can become technical ,a Schnauzer has an agouti coat when hand stripped but when clipped generally non as it becomes a solid colour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 If someone told me a dog was "smut coloured" - I'd have no idea what they meant. The dog in the first pic - I'd describe as red with a darker red widows peak and and white chest (and some white toes or socks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Personally i would keep it simple ,For most joe public that is tan .start getting fancy & it becomes even more confusing & beyond the simple aspect it should be . As above. Smut to me means dirty & to some people it doesn't mean anything. Tan is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 The first photo technically is clear sable and the second shaded sable. In those types of breeds though, sable is referred to as red or fawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Personally i would keep it simple ,For most joe public that is tan .start getting fancy & it becomes even more confusing & beyond the simple aspect it should be . When we board dogs alot rescue i often wonder if they had a "think" party on describing some things to make it sound fancier but what they often describe isn't suited to the dog or if the dog was lost something people would associate with. When describing colours in pure breeds in has meaning & easy to associate with that breed . You could say shaded red which is used to describe the dachie with black . Agouti can become technical ,a Schnauzer has an agouti coat when hand stripped but when clipped generally non as it becomes a solid colour Agree. General public won't know what you're talking about, keep it simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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